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Thread: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

  1. #151
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    You'd be doing well to keep a cow and calf for a year for 400, more like 6-700.
    How would you break down 700 for keeping a suckler cow for a year ?

  2. #152
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    I would like to see you brake down 400 to cover keeping a suckler cow each year, remember rent,ai and or bull cost,vet+med replacement, a few empty, no sfp, and the few calves that are not worth 1000 at 12 month, or even dead at birth!

  3. #153
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron150 View Post
    I would like to see you brake down 400 to cover keeping a suckler cow each year, remember rent,ai and or bull cost,vet+med replacement, a few empty, no sfp, and the few calves that are not worth 1000 at 12 month, or even dead at birth!
    Thats it though isnt it, costs can be dressed up or down to how it suits same as a dairy cow.

  4. #154
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron150 View Post
    I would like to see you brake down 400 to cover keeping a suckler cow each year, remember rent,ai and or bull cost,vet+med replacement, a few empty, no sfp, and the few calves that are not worth 1000 at 12 month, or even dead at birth!
    If you forward me 40 i will tell you how to do it (cos it can be done) !! but i aint telling you for free as then you would be as clever as me !! lol and i want people to go out of sucklers not in to them, so for now we will say you cant make a penny out of sucklers ha.

  5. #155
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    If you forward me 40 i will tell you how to do it (cos it can be done) !! but i aint telling you for free as then you would be as clever as me !! lol and i want people to go out of sucklers not in to them, so for now we will say you cant make a penny out of sucklers ha.
    Warren Buffet seems to subscribe to the theory of getting in when others get out ..... so we are going into dairy too.

    This time next year Rodney ......

  6. #156
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    How would you break down 700 for keeping a suckler cow for a year ?
    Well purchase cost = 1300
    @ 5% interest that costs 65 per year.
    cull value = 800
    assume 5 calves out of her = 100 per year
    Therefore cost of cow = 165 per year

    Now feed:
    6 tonnes of silage at 25 per tonne = 150
    Grazing = 100

    Slurry spreading = 20
    calf creep = 40
    vet and med = 30
    bull = 40

    Total for this = 380 for feed and keep + 165 for depreciation and finance of cow = 545

    This is even before I take account of so many costs such as water, electricity, wages, bedding, financing land, machinery and fuel for actually feeding in winter, insurance, the list goes on.

    So even assuming 545 per year and selling 95% of calves which is good your cost per calve would be 573 before all those other costs!

  7. #157
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    Well purchase cost = 1300
    @ 5% interest that costs 65 per year.
    cull value = 800
    assume 5 calves out of her = 100 per year
    Therefore cost of cow = 165 per year

    Now feed:
    6 tonnes of silage at 25 per tonne = 150
    Grazing = 100

    Slurry spreading = 20
    calf creep = 40
    vet and med = 30
    bull = 40

    Total for this = 380 for feed and keep + 165 for depreciation and finance of cow = 545

    This is even before I take account of so many costs such as water, electricity, wages, bedding, financing land, machinery and fuel for actually feeding in winter, insurance, the list goes on.

    So even assuming 545 per year and selling 95% of calves which is good your cost per calve would be 573 before all those other costs!
    Well that would be one way of keeping cows i surpose but there are other ways/systems.

  8. #158
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    Well that would be one way of keeping cows i surpose but there are other ways/systems.
    How? I can't see how you can avoid a lot of those costs?

  9. #159
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    How? I can't see how you can avoid a lot of those costs?
    spec savers for you then.

  10. #160
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Well yes, but vet and med, bull/AI, purchase and cull values, interest on borrowed/saved capital, short of leaving them outside all day every day in which case you will have a reseeding cost eventually, what exactly are you doing differently?

  11. #161
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    How? I can't see how you can avoid a lot of those costs?
    You avoid them by ignoring them - and then you wonder why supermarkets continue to be able force prices down !
    Last edited by Courier; 30-04-13 at 12:27 PM.

  12. #162
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Courier View Post
    You avoid them by ignoring them - and then you wonder why supermarkets continue to force prices down !
    Aha, I see, farming for love, not money. I get it now.

  13. #163
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Well yes, but vet and med, bull/AI, purchase and cull values, interest on borrowed/saved capital, short of leaving them outside all day every day in which case you will have a reseeding cost eventually, what exactly are you doing differently?
    I dont do much differant, but some do.

  14. #164
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Aha, I see, farming for love, not money. I get it now.
    Alot of farmers love there job.

  15. #165
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Courier View Post
    You avoid them by ignoring them - and then you wonder why supermarkets continue to force prices down !
    If a farmer chooses to ignore his costs how dose that help supermarkets force price down ?

  16. #166
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    If a farmer chooses to ignore his costs how dose that help supermarkets force price down ?
    Farmer continues to supply rather than removing himself from a loss making enterprise.

  17. #167
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by moffett View Post
    Farmer continues to supply rather than removing himself from a loss making enterprise.
    Yes, strange old job farming.

  18. #168
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Courier View Post
    You avoid them by ignoring them - and then you wonder why supermarkets continue to force prices down !
    You have hit on one fundamental square on. The price of any commodity will reflect its cost structure and the willingness of suppliers to cut those costs.

    Just look at the clothing industry and the result of extreme cost cutting in order to satisfy the downward price pressure exerted by ruthless retailers.
    Cost cutting must have an end point beyond which it becomes unacceptable both for the businesses concerned and society. It can become an obsession that is taken to unhealthy extremes rather than concentrating on maximising income to actually raise standards. In practice there has to be a healthy balance of sustainable income to maintain investment and a standard of production through average or better efficiency. An obsession with ultimate cost cutting across an industry ultimately and inevitably leads to lower income to match the lower costs, hence the need for even lower costs until you get to the situation seen with the Bangladesh clothing industry supplying our cut-price clothing retailers at prices that are frankly unbelievably low.

    LOW LOW LOW. It is a rush to the bottom. A mug's game.
    The Duck 2015

  19. #169
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    Well that would be one way of keeping cows i surpose but there are other ways/systems.
    Do you keep your cows out year round?

    How many cows on how many acres?

  20. #170
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    Do you keep your cows out year round?

    How many cows on how many acres?
    No i winter mine in i dont make 600 per cow but i belive it will be achiveable on the best land with a good farmer that knows what he is doing.

  21. #171
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    You have hit on one fundamental square on. The price of any commodity will reflect its cost structure and the willingness of suppliers to cut those costs.

    Just look at the clothing industry and the result of extreme cost cutting in order to satisfy the downward price pressure exerted by ruthless retailers.
    Cost cutting must have an end point beyond which it becomes unacceptable both for the businesses concerned and society. It can become an obsession that is taken to unhealthy extremes rather than concentrating on maximising income to actually raise standards. In practice there has to be a healthy balance of sustainable income to maintain investment and a standard of production through average or better efficiency. An obsession with ultimate cost cutting across an industry ultimately and inevitably leads to lower income to match the lower costs, hence the need for even lower costs until you get to the situation seen with the Bangladesh clothing industry supplying our cut-price clothing retailers at prices that are frankly unbelievably low.

    LOW LOW LOW. It is a rush to the bottom. A mug's game.
    I agree with that, cost cutting can only go so far.

  22. #172
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    No i winter mine in i dont make 600 per cow but i belive it will be achiveable on the best land with a good farmer that knows what he is doing.
    But that same farmer on good land would probably make a lot more money from the following enterprises:

    Arable,
    Dairy farming,
    Buying in dropped calves is a lot cheaper than keeping a cow for a year,
    and even sheep are more profitable than sucklers I believe!

  23. #173
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    But that same farmer on good land would probably make a lot more money from the following enterprises:

    Arable,
    Dairy farming,
    Buying in dropped calves is a lot cheaper than keeping a cow for a year,
    and even sheep are more profitable than sucklers I believe!
    Depends on what he wants to do though dosent it, money is not everything, no way would i want to milk or be arable even if i made twice as much.

  24. #174
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hillybill View Post
    Depends on what he wants to do though dosent it, money is not everything, no way would i want to milk or be arable even if i made twice as much.
    True, I think thats what makes people keep sucklers- the love of them! I do thoroughly enjoy them myself. We are dairying now and it is MUCH MUCH harder work, tied to the tail!

  25. #175
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    You have hit on one fundamental square on. The price of any commodity will reflect its cost structure and the willingness of suppliers to cut those costs.

    Just look at the clothing industry and the result of extreme cost cutting in order to satisfy the downward price pressure exerted by ruthless retailers.
    Cost cutting must have an end point beyond which it becomes unacceptable both for the businesses concerned and society. It can become an obsession that is taken to unhealthy extremes rather than concentrating on maximising income to actually raise standards. In practice there has to be a healthy balance of sustainable income to maintain investment and a standard of production through average or better efficiency. An obsession with ultimate cost cutting across an industry ultimately and inevitably leads to lower income to match the lower costs, hence the need for even lower costs until you get to the situation seen with the Bangladesh clothing industry supplying our cut-price clothing retailers at prices that are frankly unbelievably low.

    LOW LOW LOW. It is a rush to the bottom. A mug's game.
    Broadly you are right but the reason the factory collapsed in Bangladesh is because the building was crap not that the jumpers or whatever were cheap.I don't know if it is right or not but reports on thenews said that workers had been ordered back into the building after cracks appeared upon threat of losing their jobs. If their jobs were that badly paid wouldn't they have said stick your job? Maybe the poor people stuck in there needed better labour protection not more money,though one might lead to the other.

  26. #176
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedyears View Post
    Broadly you are right but the reason the factory collapsed in Bangladesh is because the building was crap not that the jumpers or whatever were cheap.I don't know if it is right or not but reports on thenews said that workers had been ordered back into the building after cracks appeared upon threat of losing their jobs. If their jobs were that badly paid wouldn't they have said stick your job? Maybe the poor people stuck in there needed better labour protection not more money,though one might lead to the other.
    I think you are right, but i also think Bangladeshy people will be so poor they will not have the oppertunity to say stick your job, but as you say a bit more money might lead to better labour protection.

  27. #177
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    True, I think thats what makes people keep sucklers- the love of them! I do thoroughly enjoy them myself. We are dairying now and it is MUCH MUCH harder work, tied to the tail!
    My family came from Dairy to sucklers they had Dairy cows when i was a bairn i would not want to go back to that, i think with all the extra everything involved in dairy etc at the end of the day i dont think on the same land one would be any better off than the other even if the suckler man had less proffit he would have a hell of a sight better quality of life but then thats the beauty of farming isnt it CHOICES, maybe being tied to a cows tail is the perfect life for some, even with sucklers there is still a element of tied although not a tightly as Dairy.

  28. #178

    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by hooby farmer View Post
    3 guys i know of all in there twentys have all started to milk this last 6months, one with 40 cows, one 27 and one with 31. i think they are mad
    What kind of cow have they started with?what are they likely to be making?

  29. #179
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    Re: Considering going into milk production. Am I mad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    Well purchase cost = 1300
    @ 5% interest that costs 65 per year.
    cull value = 800
    assume 5 calves out of her = 100 per year
    Therefore cost of cow = 165 per year
    Would that be 65 per year though?

    1300 cost, less 800 after 5 years =500 or 100 per year depreciation (assuming 5 years).
    1 calf per year = 100 income so that cancels the depreciation.


    I'm not picking fault, just trying to understand. I'm new to all this.

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