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Thread: Lamb battle!!

  1. #1
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    Senior Member ladycrofter's Avatar
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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    DNA test?

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    I think it would be a tremendous idea to DNA test it. The testing could then be rolled out onto some high profile sales, let's see who's the daddy!

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    if he was so valuble he should've looked after it better ....blokes a pr*t IMO

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    On the other side if it was a dog they would be glad the owner came to get it and be glad to be shot of it , i think
    You can always tell a Yorkshireman............But you can't tell him much

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    but it wasn't was it....this 'extremely well bred lamb' was fished out of a river by a schoolgirl near death and take to them....he admits if it was a 50 lamb he'dve given it to them....so how much was it worth???....and how big a donation does he want to make??.....if the lamb had died he would of got nothing....so let them keep it..good pr. as opposed to this story which infers that all he cares about is money

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    But he didn't throw it in the river, any of us who farm with rivers have had lambs in the river. He has offered another lamb or and a donation doesn't have to be about money if this ram lamb or ewe lamb was out of a ram he paid thousands for then he would want it back.
    Ok someone else saved it and yes it would be dead if they hadn't but still his lamb and if worth alot as a breed replacement then i would want it back too and anyone whoe breeds from pure stock that has cost a lot of money would too. Why are people talking about him not taking enough care of it like he threw it in the river
    You can always tell a Yorkshireman............But you can't tell him much

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
    But he didn't throw it in the river, any of us who farm with rivers have had lambs in the river. He has offered another lamb or and a donation doesn't have to be about money if this ram lamb or ewe lamb was out of a ram he paid thousands for then he would want it back.
    Ok someone else saved it and yes it would be dead if they hadn't but still his lamb and if worth alot as a breed replacement then i would want it back too and anyone whoe breeds from pure stock that has cost a lot of money would too. Why are people talking about him not taking enough care of it like he threw it in the river
    Exactly.

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    ok....so he has no fields on his farm without rivers?? so he's forced to put lambs worth thousands into fields with rivers? IMO he took the risk.... if the lamb had drowned presumably he'dve sworn and said 'poor me'.....if he can afford stock worth thousands he should spend some money protecting that investment

    oh...and he's prepared to use solicitors against an animal sanctuary (great farming pr)...he'd be better off spending the money on some riverside fencing

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave S View Post
    But he didn't throw it in the river, any of us who farm with rivers have had lambs in the river. He has offered another lamb or and a donation doesn't have to be about money if this ram lamb or ewe lamb was out of a ram he paid thousands for then he would want it back.
    Ok someone else saved it and yes it would be dead if they hadn't but still his lamb and if worth alot as a breed replacement then i would want it back too and anyone whoe breeds from pure stock that has cost a lot of money would too. Why are people talking about him not taking enough care of it like he threw it in the river
    Serves him right, I think. You pay silly money for stock, you takes your chances. The lamb could have died for any number of reasons and now he's making himself look like a tool. It always surprises me just what animals people are prepared to breed from. If it hasnt been 100% all of its life why would you ever breed from the thing? I now its not the lambs fault it fell in the river, but there is always going to be a question mark over its health because of its early trauma. Far better for it to end up as a petting zoo orphan than costing some poor bugger loads of money later on.

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    If the man can prove its his property,he's entitled to get it back.Finders keepers is not the way forward.He has offered to make a donation to show his gratitude for the saving of the valuable property,which is the decent thing for him to do.And its the decent thing for the recipient of lost property to return it to its owner.Those suggesting the river should have been fenced off,without knowing the topography of where this SCOTTISH BLACKFACE lamb was being kept,might be proved to have a lack of understanding of hill sheep farming.

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    suppose the schoolgirl had taken it to a vet and they'd looked after it ???......how big a bill for say 3-5 days??? (or however long).......would he pay??

    none of us is immune from misfortune like this....but we do have a choice about how to react....let them keep it IMO

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by saltoun View Post
    If the man can prove its his property,he's entitled to get it back.Finders keepers is not the way forward.He has offered to make a donation to show his gratitude for the saving of the valuable property,which is the decent thing for him to do.And its the decent thing for the recipient of lost property to return it to its owner.Those suggesting the river should have been fenced off,without knowing the topography of where this SCOTTISH BLACKFACE lamb was being kept,might be proved to have a lack of understanding of hill sheep farming.
    so hill farmers put individual animals worth 1000s of pounds out with the rest ....not a bit in-bye thats fenced? as to finders/ keepers.....the lamb was presumably near death....so they took an animal that was near death...reared it back to health and now he wants it back fit and healthy???...the donation he's willing to make should be the same as an equivalent vets bill

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spin cycle View Post
    so hill farmers put individual animals worth 1000s of pounds out with the rest ....not a bit in-bye thats fenced? as to finders/ keepers.....the lamb was presumably near death....so they took an animal that was near death...reared it back to health and now he wants it back fit and healthy???...the donation he's willing to make should be the same as an equivalent vets bill
    We dont know whether this lamb was worth 1000s.Nor do we know what level of donation he has offered.I can imagine someone finding a rolex watch in the street and becoming very attached to it.But they should return it to its rightful owner.The animal sanctuary concerned must surely see the sense in returning this animal to its rightful home,thus creating space for another unfortunate.And using any "reward" to buy feed for other animals in its care.If it has charitable status,to do other would leave it on very shaky ground.

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    actually reading the story again its the sanctuary who appear to have resorted to solicitors first....but it also says the lamb isn't ordinary as a replacement was offered. the charitable status thing could be spun the other way.....it could be said that,as a sanctuary, they had a duty of care to the animal NOT to pass it back to the owner arguing that he hardly looked after it in the first place. would the owner of the rolex expect the finder to fix it before handing it back if it was broken???

    i concede my knowledge of hill farming is limited....but leaving out animals worth thousands??? would you park an atv out on the hill and leave it there??

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spin cycle View Post
    actually reading the story again its the sanctuary who appear to have resorted to solicitors first....but it also says the lamb isn't ordinary as a replacement was offered. the charitable status thing could be spun the other way.....it could be said that,as a sanctuary, they had a duty of care to the animal NOT to pass it back to the owner arguing that he hardly looked after it in the first place. would the owner of the rolex expect the finder to fix it before handing it back if it was broken???

    i concede my knowledge of hill farming is limited....but leaving out animals worth thousands??? would you park an atv out on the hill and leave it there??
    We dont know it was worth thousands,but yes,its normal practise for valuable sheep to be outside.

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    being thats its a scottish black face lamb theres a fair chance the farm doesnt have any fields to fence off , and just because a school girl fished it out of a river supposedly theres no saying she did and is she an expert does she know it would have died if she hadent , theres a fair chance it would have got out itself and lived a long life. is that not sheep rustling , why didnt she take it back to the farmer rather than a vet

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    If the farmer can prove ownership through DNA testing, there are two possible offences here.

    Theft by finding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding) and resetting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods).

    That may sound a bit heavy handed but the question is what reasonable steps were taken to find the owner of the lamb and why has the charity accepted the lamb without proof that the finder has title to it? Is this the way to teach the young responsible citizenship?

    What would the feelings of those who think the lamb should be left where it is if it was not a lamb but a valuable sheepdog worth a few thousand pounds? Or even a new car or a motor boat washed away in recent floods? Should the person who pulls it out of the river become the legal owner?

  19. #19
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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    can't believe the attitude......so the farmer has no responsibility to his stock ....but a schoolgirl is expected to find the owner or be charged with sheep rustling.......lesson is leave the bl**dy thing in the river.....i wonder how many other lambs get washed away.....not that you lot seem to care unless its washed up alive.

  20. #20
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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    you cant watch them all 24/7 , in a river, under a snow drift , seen pleanty sheep hung on fences ,lying upsid down in hollows , caught up in bryres , its a lamb/sheep for f**ks sake you cant keep them away from every suicide opportunity

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Recycled View Post
    you cant watch them all 24/7 , in a river, under a snow drift , seen pleanty sheep hung on fences ,lying upsid down in hollows , caught up in bryres , its a lamb/sheep for f**ks sake you cant keep them away from every suicide opportunity
    maybe not ....but woe betide anyone who rescues one...they'll be done for rustling....who on earth would prosecute a child for rescuing a lamb out of a river???

    i'm finished on this thread....i've certainly had my eyes opened about the attitudes of hill farming if this thread is anything to go by

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Rot View Post
    If the farmer can prove ownership through DNA testing, there are two possible offences here.

    Theft by finding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_by_finding) and resetting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods).

    That may sound a bit heavy handed but the question is what reasonable steps were taken to find the owner of the lamb and why has the charity accepted the lamb without proof that the finder has title to it? Is this the way to teach the young responsible citizenship?

    What would the feelings of those who think the lamb should be left where it is if it was not a lamb but a valuable sheepdog worth a few thousand pounds? Or even a new car or a motor boat washed away in recent floods? Should the person who pulls it out of the river become the legal owner?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but boats/cars don't drown......

  23. #23
    Senior Member Recycled's Avatar
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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    boats are a bit differant you can claim salvage on them

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    If you don't agree with the laws of the land, best write to your MP and get them changed! At least it should brighten up his day!

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHants View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but boats/cars don't drown......
    Sorry, I should have explained that. I didn't take account of the level of intelligence I was dealing with!

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    Thought about this for a bit, I think the farmers in the right to expect the lamb to be returned to him. Regardless of the value of the lamb and regardless at how the welfare center gotit, it is his lamb. He should be expected to pay ALL costs for the lambs rescue and recovery but it is still his lamb. Not returning the lamb because they are 'attached' to it is a crock as far as I can see.

  27. #27
    Senior Member bottg's Avatar
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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    It could set a dangerous precedent given how sheep will wander. It is a rare farm that never has a stray sheep and if collected by someone who then gets attached...........

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    They don't even need to wander, we used to have people every year when i was on the hills, they would knock on the door with a lamb they had found lost, when asked where it was the reply was nearly always the same just curled up behind some rushes or under a peat hagg just where the ewe had left it.
    We would then ask them to to us to where they found it and 9 times out of 10 we would get there and put lamb back it would shout and mom would come running, we could never blame the people as they didn't understand, to them it was alone so lost but hopefully showing them the situation they learned something
    You can always tell a Yorkshireman............But you can't tell him much

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    the sanctuary is doing nothing other than using this to get publicity ,its a regular event for them to be pleading poverty and that they will have to close and all the poor cuddly lambs will have to be put down so please give us another donation , What this does show though is how far removed from the realities of farming they and the public in general are . Any proper animal "sanctuary " would be glad to get any of its animals back to a place to where they belong as long as they would be properly looked after to save their valuable feed stocks which they "cant afford to buy " , in 6 months time when its no longer a little lamb to draw the crowds what then ?
    keeping something thats not yours is theft no matter how you look at it and fairly sure it would have been easy to establish the owner right at the start by eithyer phoning the police or asking at the nearest farm

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    Re: Lamb battle!!

    I wonder what the public reaction would have been if an evil farmer had found a child's puppy or kitten and decided to keep it without making any inquries or advertising to find the rightful owner?

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