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Thread: Derv Doctor

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    Derv Doctor

    Anybody had their egr switched off on their 30 series by the derv doctor ? They're going to come and do my 6330 in a couple of weeks and wondered if anyone had any experience of this , they will remap it and put an extra 20-30hp on it which would make it the same as the last of the 6430's to which it is mechanically identical and so should handle the extra power . They claim fuel savings of up to 3-5 litres /hr but if it just saved 1 litre I should get 100% return on capital within 1 year and hopefully the engine will last longer with no soot going in it

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Local farmer has had at least one John Deere done. They went a little too far on the tune up though. Would want it dyno'd personally. The elimination of the egr has got to make sense though I guess.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Very recently done our two tractors along with my brother in law who also had 2 done. It transforms the tractor! You also get the top gear speed limiter removed, the 6930 now doing 61k!
    The biggest improvement is in low end torque, it is now more like a sisu engine how they hold on, but with responsiveness of the deere engine which makes it fantastic to drive.
    They do give a substantial power hike though, and just hope the tractors are strong enough long term, though deere are reasonably generous in over engineering major components. The 6430, 6930, 7530 are all running around 35-40hp extra, the claas arion a bit less. Would love to dyno them!
    Btw, the 6330 and 6430 do have some mechanical differences, final drives and pistons are 2 that come to mind, there could be others.
    Will be the best 500 quid you spend this yr!

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    Very recently done our two tractors along with my brother in law who also had 2 done. It transforms the tractor! You also get the top gear speed limiter removed, the 6930 now doing 61k!
    The biggest improvement is in low end torque, it is now more like a sisu engine how they hold on, but with responsiveness of the deere engine which makes it fantastic to drive.
    They do give a substantial power hike though, and just hope the tractors are strong enough long term, though deere are reasonably generous in over engineering major components. The 6430, 6930, 7530 are all running around 35-40hp extra, the claas arion a bit less. Would love to dyno them!
    Btw, the 6330 and 6430 do have some mechanical differences, final drives and pistons are 2 that come to mind, there could be others.
    Will be the best 500 quid you spend this yr!
    so you had that done to them with no idea of how much the power has been altered or even what they started out with?????

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Yes the one thing that worries me is that they do not bring a dyno with them , trouble is they are the only company that can disable the egr in the uk so there is no option of using some one else , tried Chris Wilner but he can't do it yet , he is looking into it though . When I bought my 6330 I was worried that I may wish to chip it one day so I spoke with Langer to try and establish the difference between it and a 6430 , they told me there was no difference at all to the engine's or cooling packs ,although given that the engine will run cooler without egr cooling should not be a worry anyway , but he did say there was one part different in the rear end and you can see the bits that the rear wheels bolt to are different , it's the back end that would worry me when ploughing and such , would have to be careful not to let engine lug down to low as someone pointed out to me on here , the derv doctor says that it will not be an issue though as the way the remap works it does not increase torque load on transmision just extra horse power meaning faster work rate or rotations thus torque remains the same or something like that . They also work with a foreign tuning company that dyno every tractor and thus gives them a good idea of what they are doing

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    Very recently done our two tractors along with my brother in law who also had 2 done. It transforms the tractor! You also get the top gear speed limiter removed, the 6930 now doing 61k!
    The biggest improvement is in low end torque, it is now more like a sisu engine how they hold on, but with responsiveness of the deere engine which makes it fantastic to drive.
    They do give a substantial power hike though, and just hope the tractors are strong enough long term, though deere are reasonably generous in over engineering major components. The 6430, 6930, 7530 are all running around 35-40hp extra, the claas arion a bit less. Would love to dyno them!
    Btw, the 6330 and 6430 do have some mechanical differences, final drives and pistons are 2 that come to mind, there could be others.
    Will be the best 500 quid you spend this yr!

    This post must be a joke right? Jd over engineered major components. Haven t changed much since the original 6000 series. Hence why they started reliable and have got worse as power increased.

    Not getting them dynoed is nuts.

    Good luck though. Hope they go alright for you.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post

    Not getting them dynoed is nuts.

    .
    Maybe ,but so is egr long term

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    I agree a tractor running on its own waste is not a good idea. However many cars trucks etc have them fitted and don't seem to give the same bother they do in green tractors. The components in these tractors are all running at max capacity already in my experience.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Buy a bigger tractor. If and when you have a problem you will, of course expect Deere to stand by you and if they don`t, you`ll be back on here grizzling to all and sundry.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    This post must be a joke right? Jd over engineered major components. Haven t changed much since the original 6000 series. Hence why they started reliable and have got worse as power increased.

    Not getting them dynoed is nuts.

    Good luck though. Hope they go alright for you.
    Thanks I think!!
    I will try and justify my comments!
    Most JD complaints on reliability seem to be related to the egr system or headgaskets and the 20 series autopower transmission, and also cooling but that ties into the egr system.
    Now, the Derv doc disables the egr system which also has the effect of decreasing the load on the cooling system as there are no exhaust gasses to cool. Our two tractors are the 4cyl engines which are much less prone to headgasket failure.
    I did ask the Derv doc to leave the hp the same on the Claas and up to 20hp on the JD but he added 20hp or so to both those and assured me it will be fine, and it probably will be as our tractors are not worked that hard, but can't be sure of actual figures as he doesn't bring a dyno, so should I take these two on the 80 mile round trip to the dealer just to get power figures?
    There are plenty JD out there chipped to near these figures and it is rare to hear of engine/transmission failure aside from the above mentioned components, though of course there is a risk, but it is my risk!

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Most dynos I have seen have wheels so would I assume tow behind a van? We got deutz dealer to dyno our 7530 when we chipped it. I would just want to know how much it's putting out for piece of mind. Maybe just me.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    Thanks I think!!
    I will try and justify my comments!
    Most JD complaints on reliability seem to be related to the egr system or headgaskets and the 20 series autopower transmission, and also cooling but that ties into the egr system.
    Now, the Derv doc disables the egr system which also has the effect of decreasing the load on the cooling system as there are no exhaust gasses to cool. Our two tractors are the 4cyl engines which are much less prone to headgasket failure.
    I did ask the Derv doc to leave the hp the same on the Claas and up to 20hp on the JD but he added 20hp or so to both those and assured me it will be fine,and it probably will be as our tractors are not worked that hard, but can't be sure of actual figures as he doesn't bring a dyno, so should I take these two on the 80 mile round trip to the dealer just to get power figures?
    There are plenty JD out there chipped to near these figures and it is rare to hear of engine/transmission failure aside from the above mentioned components, though of course there is a risk, but it is my risk!
    What you do with your tractors is up to you. But what I cant see is, if you say they are not worked that hard why do you need to chip them?

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    What you do with your tractors is up to you. But what I cant see is, if you say they are not worked that hard why do you need to chip them?
    To disable the egr system which is troublesome.

    For instance, my brothers 7530 is on its fourth egr valve at 8000hrs and it is worked.
    Ours are both on replacement egr valves, the 6430 perhaps didn't need one at the time but just before the warranty ran out we had one fitted and the original was rather dirty and didn't have long to go.
    So if the remap saves the cost of one egr valve then its paid for itself, if it saves more than one egr valve it's a winner assuming nothing else breaks!

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Chips View Post
    Yes the one thing that worries me is that they do not bring a dyno with them , trouble is they are the only company that can disable the egr in the uk so there is no option of using some one else , tried Chris Wilner but he can't do it yet , he is looking into it though . When I bought my 6330 I was worried that I may wish to chip it one day so I spoke with Langer to try and establish the difference between it and a 6430 , they told me there was no difference at all to the engine's or cooling packs ,although given that the engine will run cooler without egr cooling should not be a worry anyway , but he did say there was one part different in the rear end and you can see the bits that the rear wheels bolt to are different , it's the back end that would worry me when ploughing and such , would have to be careful not to let engine lug down to low as someone pointed out to me on here , the derv doctor says that it will not be an issue though as the way the remap works it does not increase torque load on transmision just extra horse power meaning faster work rate or rotations thus torque remains the same or something like that . They also work with a foreign tuning company that dyno every tractor and thus gives them a good idea of what they are doing
    when a 6430 won't lift plough,cultivater not heavy enough to pull our drill sprayer pushed it around had a 6320 before it don't no what you expect to gain whith extra power 6630 will run rings round it in a field and keep going because it is built stronga and a 6430 soon gets worm and blows a gasket if you work it hard and if not going to whats the point of extra power

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Wouldnt you think The Derv Dr would have had his own Dyno just to give piece of mind to all the customers ???

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    If it`s not dyno`d before and after how do you know it actualy has anymore power????????

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Agreed ..... must be dyno tested

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Back to the good old days of bunging a turbo onto something and off you go!!!!!!!!!!usually with a bang in the end

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by yorkie View Post
    when a 6430 won't lift plough,cultivater not heavy enough to pull our drill sprayer pushed it around had a 6320 before it don't no what you expect to gain whith extra power 6630 will run rings round it in a field and keep going because it is built stronga and a 6430 soon gets worm and blows a gasket if you work it hard and if not going to whats the point of extra power
    I bet you farm flat land.
    The hardest work our 6430 does is the 4f variwidth Kuhn plough and our welger rp435 baler. On the flat it copes just fine with those implements, not much of our ground is flat though, so for instance you are down to 2.5mph uphill with the plough in some fields, might do 3.5mph now!
    6630 would be fine in the field, but we are a hill sheep farm with loaders on both tractors and tight sheds to access, and 4cyl tractors are inherently slightly more economical.
    But having said all that, the main reason for the remap was to disable the egr system, and there will literally only be about 2 weeks in the year the extra power will be useful.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by colhonk View Post
    If it`s not dyno`d before and after how do you know it actualy has anymore power????????
    You can feel the difference straight away

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    I bet you farm flat land.
    The hardest work our 6430 does is the 4f variwidth Kuhn plough and our welger rp435 baler. On the flat it copes just fine with those implements, not much of our ground is flat though, so for instance you are down to 2.5mph uphill with the plough in some fields, might do 3.5mph now!
    6630 would be fine in the field, but we are a hill sheep farm with loaders on both tractors and tight sheds to access, and 4cyl tractors are inherently slightly more economical.
    But having said all that, the main reason for the remap was to disable the egr system, and there will literally only be about 2 weeks in the year the extra power will be useful.
    Here is the problem. You have bought a tractor that has to conform to emmission regulations by law. You decide you want part of the exhaust management system disabled to suit you. The general public would be mighty pi--ed off if they knew that you paid no road fund licence for your tractor, did not have to MOT the tractor to run it on the road, burnt rebated red diesel in it and now want to disable the emmission control system. Bring in full MOT for all ag. tractors and soon. You get agriculture a bad name.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Madness without dyno testing if this derv person had any common sense he would check them sounds a cowboy as said dynos are towed behind a car van jeep whatever you're mad letting him do it spending 500 could cost thousands in engine driveline problems

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    I would almost bet my bottom dollar that disabling the egr will do far more to protect the planet than leaving it working . Emission stuff is to stop pollution in inner cities, of which my tractor never goes near , however by reducing fuel economy they do plenty to increase global warming if it exists , plus all the polution used in making replacement egr valves , turbo's and eventually replacement engines or rebuilds at far lower hours ,coupled with transporting and storing all these extra parts parts and fitting them . It's similar to hybrid battery cars , looks great until you look into how much extra energy goes into making them far out weighs any gains .
    My main reason for this remap is to switch off egr and properly tune it , the extra power will mainly be for PTO work or transport so should be pretty safe ,we don't have massive cultivation equipment being a dairy farm that would cause the big torque loads at slow speeds , mowing,baling,rear discharge spreader and hauling trailers are it's high power demand jobs
    Last edited by Chips; 18-05-13 at 11:25 PM.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    I bet you farm flat land.
    The hardest work our 6430 does is the 4f variwidth Kuhn plough and our welger rp435 baler. On the flat it copes just fine with those implements, not much of our ground is flat though, so for instance you are down to 2.5mph uphill with the plough in some fields, might do 3.5mph now!
    6630 would be fine in the field, but we are a hill sheep farm with loaders on both tractors and tight sheds to access, and 4cyl tractors are inherently slightly more economical.
    But having said all that, the main reason for the remap was to disable the egr system, and there will literally only be about 2 weeks in the year the extra power will be useful.
    no got hills

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by devils advocate View Post
    Here is the problem. You have bought a tractor that has to conform to emmission regulations by law. You decide you want part of the exhaust management system disabled to suit you. The general public would be mighty pi--ed off if they knew that you paid no road fund licence for your tractor, did not have to MOT the tractor to run it on the road, burnt rebated red diesel in it and now want to disable the emmission control system. Bring in full MOT for all ag. tractors and soon. You get agriculture a bad name.
    You are clearly a slave to the system, and swallow all the bulls*it the unelected/unaccountable eurocrats throw at you.

  26. #26

    Re: Derv Doctor

    We do extensive dyno testing here and in Finland. We make adjustments to things other people never even think of! Like cold advance maps to quiten the diesel knock. Boost control maps are modified to reduce boost at low load and over run as they ramp the boost up normally to create exhaust manifold back pressure. To feed gas to the egr system. We don't raise the common rail pressure at all either. We spent 20 hours once data loging and perfecting the boost control for 6930's. There are huge advantages to turning the egr off. They run 5-12 degree's cooler water temperature, don't coke the manifold up and damage the valves. Oil stays cleaner, particulate emmisions are normally lower. And they are much better on fuel. We are very careful to control the peak torque output, and produce the flatest torque curve possible.
    Last edited by derv doctor; 19-05-13 at 06:10 PM.

  27. #27

    Re: Derv Doctor

    derv doctor sounds like a good service you offer-everyone that reads this thread probably knows the risk of increasing power due to chipping at this stage

    but consider the follwing -3 mths after removing the egr valve later I get a flashing light on the dash which is related to the engine, and the fault code tells me it is a fault in the fuel system, so I get my JD dealer out with his laptop

    what happens when he plugs in and his laptop finds out about all the modified settings ? lets not get into warranty issues say the tractor is 5years old and out of warranty and has 6k hrs on the clock

    is the dealer completely lost as his laptop is telling him all these settings are modified?

    lets expand a bit further say the redlight was related to the hydraulics- is the laptop completely lost with the new engine settings?
    Last edited by aidank; 19-05-13 at 11:19 PM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Pocket rockets suit some, but, IMO, on steep ground, these tractors are what? 4.5 tonnes before wafers? Just because the power is under the bonnet doesn't match it to a 66 or 68 etc, for instance, a mate had a 6420 s that was chipped, it was great on the silage cart, hills no bother, plenty of poke, and one of the lads took a 14 tonne trailer on it to one of the worst places we could forage, yes there was driver error involved, but he jacknifed the thing coming down into a gateway, instead of aiming it from farther up the field and going straight through with the trailer in line behind the tractor, he went from lower down at a right angle and turned to go through, and the trailer just pushed the back end of the tractor round as if it was a dinky toy, now he was a t1t for doing that move, even more so for jumping on the brakes, but it just wouldn't have been so dramatic if the damned trailer was on the 6820, or mtx 175, with plenty of weight to be the boss of the trailer, same goes for a round baler etc.

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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by aidank View Post
    derv doctor sounds like a good service you offer-everyone that reads this thread probably knows the risk of increasing power due to chipping at this stage

    but consider the follwing -3 mths after removing the egr valve later I get a flashing light on the dash which is related to the engine, and the fault code tells me it is a fault in the fuel system, so I get my JD dealer out with his laptop

    what happens when he plugs in and his laptop finds out about all the modified settings ? lets not get into warranty issues say the tractor is 5years old and out of warranty and has 6k hrs on the clock

    is the dealer completely lost as his laptop is telling him all these settings are modified?

    lets expand a bit further say the redlight was related to the hydraulics- is the laptop completely lost with the new engine settings?
    There are upto 9 ECU's on a 30 series, the 'laptop' would communicate with only 1 possibly 2 at a time depending on what you wanted to investigate. Actual maps and "settings" are not visable on screen; the maps are very complex hexadeciamal tables of figures illegible without suitable software to convert them to understandable graphs. The 'laptop would only show any fault codes and live data. If a VERY experienced technition looked at for instance the EGR valve in the live data he would see it actually never opening he *might* deduce that something was not quite right based on experience with what it should be doing for that engine.

  30. #30
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    Re: Derv Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by you've been farmed View Post
    To disable the egr system which is troublesome.

    For instance, my brothers 7530 is on its fourth egr valve at 8000hrs and it is worked.
    Ours are both on replacement egr valves, the 6430 perhaps didn't need one at the time but just before the warranty ran out we had one fitted and the original was rather dirty and didn't have long to go.
    So if the remap saves the cost of one egr valve then its paid for itself, if it saves more than one egr valve it's a winner assuming nothing else breaks!
    This EGR thing seems to happen at random to tractors that are worked hard or not, or at least some dont own up to it. Will be interesting to see how the fuel use is after the mod as we found the 6330 we had very thirsty as standard

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