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Thread: Fertiliser Calculations

  1. #31
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieboy View Post
    Yes surely you want three 'bags' an acre to be doing some good. I've never seen fert in cwt's but still think well I need 4-5 bags an acre total for my wheat then multiply by 125 to satisfy my spreader control box each pass.
    That's the way the vast majority of people calculate it I believe. But 'bags' should be clearly shown to mean cwts [hundredweights or 50kg measures]
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  2. #32
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.
    I know exactly what you mean, but I did my FACTS course and ended up way more confused about the whole business with the metric system, (despite having been taught it from college!) and was in a right pickle until someone outlined the imperial system in good old fashioned farmer language which is exactly what everyone I talk to uses. If they asked me to work their fert spreader mind, I'd be buggered. Haven't even hitched a fert spreader to a tractor in about 10 years, talk to me in kg/ha and I'd have some kind of mental episode I think.

  3. #33
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.
    He'd soon get fed up if you only have a bucket and a cup to spread it with!!

  4. #34
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    That's the way the vast majority of people calculate it I believe. But 'bags' should be clearly shown to mean cwts [hundredweights or 50kg measures]
    I'm sure most people would have the sense to realise.
    Cant believe there is so much confusion over such a simple system.

    Although if you operate both the sprayer and spreader it makes no sense to ever think in imperial measurements. But I can only think of crop requirements in unit terms.

  5. #35
    Dave Applesquasher
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by kennyo View Post
    He'd soon get fed up if you only have a bucket and a cup to spread it with!!
    Oh I have a wagtail as well.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieboy View Post
    I'm sure most people would have the sense to realise.
    Cant believe there is so much confusion over such a simple system.

    Although if you operate both the sprayer and spreader it makes no sense to ever think in imperial measurements. But I can only think of crop requirements in unit terms.
    I actually apply and sow everything in metric. But as Mayo [YWFMN] says, the unit system is just so much more user friendly than using Kgs of active ingredient. Most people seem to know how the unit system works while very few indeed bother with metric measurements of crop fertiliser requirements.

    I'll still apply the stuff in kgs or litres per ha and use kms/h for tractor forward speed even though the car does mph [although I'm quite happy with kph]

    A similar mix of units is pretty much universal in the UK in that fuel is sold in litres, yet we [nearly] all calculate fuel consumption in terms of miles to the gallon even though the gallon is a physically mysterious volume to the younger generation.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    You guys should think yourselves lucky with rams and things on your spreaders.
    Yesterday and today I spread a full 600kg bag using nothing more than a bucket and cup.
    I'm sure you are more experienced with mountains than me but they were damned steep fields I was on.
    My calf muscles feel like someone put them on upside down and my left arm is definitely longer than it was!
    You sound like my da, but don't think you are cos he cannae use a computer or smartphone but he can use a bucket and his hand!

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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    I actually apply and sow everything in metric. But as Mayo [YWFMN] says, the unit system is just so much more user friendly than using Kgs of active ingredient. Most people seem to know how the unit system works while very few indeed bother with metric measurements of crop fertiliser requirements.

    I'll still apply the stuff in kgs or litres per ha and use kms/h for tractor forward speed even though the car does mph [although I'm quite happy with kph]

    A similar mix of units is pretty much universal in the UK in that fuel is sold in litres, yet we [nearly] all calculate fuel consumption in terms of miles to the gallon even though the gallon is a physically mysterious volume to the younger generation.
    Do you get better crops where you apply 250kg/ha rather than 2 bags/acre then now you sow in metric I enjoy working out how many 18" rows of beet I'm spraying with my 24m sprayer. My mate was busy telling me how he had been looking counting how many plants to the chain he had whilst saying how the 2l/ha of goltix had done such a good job.

  9. #39
    Dave Applesquasher
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Cupfulls per yard when using a bucket

  10. #40
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.
    could you not tell him 1 bag is 50 kg's?

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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Assuming you're like me (sorry for the slur!) and can do the practical stuff but not the maths, which is the best instructional site on the Internet for putting in the data to get the correct answer? One for spraying too would be a help.

    My brain freezes when I'm confronted with this sort of problem which is crazy as I can actually do it if I can stay mentally calm, but my thought processes really do shut down. I suspect that started when I was put into the senior class for maths with the brilliant idea that peer pressure would improve me. But I was too smart for that, I just copied off the clever ones and learnt nothing!

  12. #42
    Senior Member ladycrofter's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    So. . . in a 600kg bag of 16-16-16, is there really 200 kg N? Or how much is filler/binder/etc?

  13. #43
    Dave Applesquasher
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    I still don't think you are getting it.
    There are 96kg N, 96kg P and 96 kg K
    16% of each, that is what 16:16:16 means.

  14. #44
    Dave Applesquasher
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by leashed View Post
    could you not tell him 1 bag is 50 kg's?
    I don't think he would believe me, especially when he couldn't carry it in a wheelbarrow.

  15. #45
    Senior Member ladycrofter's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    I still don't think you are getting it.
    There are 96kg N, 96kg P and 96 kg K
    16% of each, that is what 16:16:16 means.
    You are too right squashie my head is hurting again. So what is the other 312kg I am paying for?????

  16. #46
    Dave Applesquasher
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Well, nitrogen is a gas in its pure state under normal conditions so it has to be in a different form for using in fertilisers.
    Ammonium nitrate for example (34.5% N)
    Same sort of thing goes for the others, I think pure phosphorus spontaneously combusts in air, a bit iffy in the Vicon.
    And yes, there will be some "filler" in there too no doubt, I would expect more so in a compound.

  17. #47
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by ladycrofter View Post
    You are too right squashie my head is hurting again. So what is the other 312kg I am paying for?????
    I'm just guessing, but the N, P and K will all be part of different chemicals, eg Ammonium Nitrate, Triple Superphosphate, Potassium Sulphate etc. And the final filler, in order to make up the weight to a tonne will probably be chalk or other cheap but harmless substance.

  18. #48
    Senior Member Sam_TM's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    And yes, there will be some "filler" in there too no doubt, I would expect more so in a compound.
    Fertiliser filler ...?





    When the figures start going round in my head & I'm doubting my calculations I always look at the bottom of this link - http://www.farmway.co.uk/corporate/fertilisers.html

    Understanding Fertiliser Analysis
    Imperial
    1 unit = 1% of a cwt
    So a fertiliser with the analysis 15:15:20 contains:-
    • 15 units N
    • 15 units P2O5
    • 20 units K2O


    Metric
    Under the metric system the unit of measurement is kg
    Recommendations are given in kg/ha

    A fertiliser with the analysis 15:15:20 contains:-
    15% N
    15% P2O5
    20% K2O

    So in a 50kg bag:-
    15% of the 50kg is N i.e. 7.5kg N
    15% of the 50kg is P2O5 i.e. 7.5kg P2O5
    20% of the 50kg is K2O i.e. 10kg K2O

    15:15:20 on the bag means:
    15 units N or 7.5kg N
    15 units P2O5 or 7.5kg P2O5
    20 units K2O or 10kg K2O
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  19. #49
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by ladycrofter View Post
    You are too right squashie my head is hurting again. So what is the other 312kg I am paying for?????
    be bloody good if it was lime

  20. #50
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Teagasc, local advisory body, was advising spreading 100units/acre and cutting in 6 weeks (silage), I think thats too
    much n.. but I notice that growth is so poor that urea I got spread 4 weeks ago, 50 units per acre, is not really working yet.

    25units (60kg, wot she says) seems too little to get grass going, clover would supply more than that?:

  21. #51
    farmersboy42
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    Fertiliser Calculations

    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.
    Last edited by Sam_TM; 19-02-15 at 05:56 PM. Reason: Reply moved to correct topic

  22. #52
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.
    Happens. (The whole thng is complicated here (.ie) by different measures, P particularly is really P, sometimes smart Ulstermen
    (where the UK units are used) sell 'cheap' manure down here by using that. )

    Oh, in the instance above, the boy said ,"Is that not a lot? when told to spread 2 bags per acre

  23. #53
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersboy42 View Post
    Talking in "bags to the acre" is even worse.
    It's OK as long as you know you are talking about 1cwt bags but if you don't you are in for an environmental disaster.
    My son is 24, I don't think he has ever seen a 1cwt bag. Tell him to put 3 bags to the acre and see what happens.

    I would sincerely hope that he would have a knowledge of what is a sensible application rate and that he doesn't blindly follow mistaken instructions. At 24 he should know crop requirements as well as you do, whether you work in units per acre and/or cwts per acre, kgs of nutrient per hectare and/or kgs of product per hectare.

    Personally I work out requirements in units per acre to give me the kgs per hectare figure for the spreader and performance monitor.

    Hundredweights [cwts] per acre has become redundant because all spreader have metric calibration charts and have had for decades.
    The Duck 2015

  24. #54
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    Re: Fertiliser Calculations

    IMO the recommendations are always way too much fertiliser

    As a test miss a bit (Yes I did that on purpose :-) ) lets you see what difference the fert made!

    2 very light coverings timed right make far more difference!

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