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Thread: Claas Senator 80

  1. #31

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    Thanks for the advice folks, all appreciated.
    How much play, if any, should be in the wooden bearings on the straw walkers shafts?
    Have cut 20 acres so far and it's worked grand... Touch wood!!

  2. #32
    Senior Member sprocket's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Hope your got a shed to keep her in. How much play do you have on the bearings?

  3. #33
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    You should have between 1 & 3 mm lift. If they get tight they overheat & sooner or later the shaft can break.

  4. #34

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by sprocket View Post
    Hope your got a shed to keep her in. How much play do you have on the bearings?
    I've a door to heighten but plenty of room. Funny how doors that seemed massive when I was young are way to small now!

    id say there is 2mm-3mm lift on the bearings.

  5. #35
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapples View Post
    You should have between 1 & 3 mm lift. If they get tight they overheat & sooner or later the shaft can break.
    Gapples, as usual, will be correct with the technical measurement. I always liked to be able to feel a little vertical movement on the blocks but as long as I could slide them sideways easily that was good enough for me. I did have a shaft break once and so put in new blocks and shims but eventually had to start taking shims out when things wore a bit. I was always fastidious about greasing the blocks. Grease them every morning and if having a long day then grease them again in the afternoon. I know they were supposed to be oil impregnated but I still liked to grease them.

    And I hated the long tubes to grease the front set. I did away with those and put nipples straight in the plates that hold the blocks. They are a pig to grease when that is done but you can do the 2 outside ones from outside the combine and then it's close the frogmouth and lie on your back time to do the 2 inside ones.

    Periodically I used to take the bottom plates off to see if any of the blocks had cracked. Sometimes they would do that. But if anything is ever dismantled there is a way of putting it all back together which you must adhere to. Slip the drive belt off and turn the walkers over by hand a few times and let them settle. If you don't do that before tightening them up it is possible for the two shafts to pull and push against each other.

  6. #36

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Have cut 40 odd acres problem free but last night when cutting down hill she wasn't clearing herself and clogging up. I slowed down & had maximum blast for fan but still happened. left it to run for a while on the level & eventually cleared. My thinking is a belt maybe slipping that drives the sieves? It was late last night so called it a day.

  7. #37
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    Have cut 40 odd acres problem free but last night when cutting down hill she wasn't clearing herself and clogging up. I slowed down & had maximum blast for fan but still happened. left it to run for a while on the level & eventually cleared. My thinking is a belt maybe slipping that drives the sieves? It was late last night so called it a day.
    Possibly more due to the fact that you were cutting downhill. Material probably could not clear the sieves. How steep was the hill? Maybe better to cut across if at all possible, but maybe too steep for that. Did the machine throw much out of the back when cutting uphill?

  8. #38

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Not that steep a hill, and was chucking more than it was out the back going uphill to end with, had cut half the field with no probs

  9. #39
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    Not that steep a hill, and was chucking more than it was out the back going uphill to end with, had cut half the field with no probs
    Maybe it was just getting damp. Any more today, and if so, how did it go? Usually good combines.

  10. #40

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Not cutting today, a bit rainy here. I'll give her a good check over/clean out before I try her again, there's nothing obvious though I also feel there could do to be more blast with the fan although its opened up.

  11. #41
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    To be honest, this sounds like a speed issue (of the separating area) but what RPM can you get out of the drum and the travel speed indicator ? The reason for asking is I wonder if your engine needs opening up a bit. Assuming that your drum belts are O.K. and that your traction belt is O.K. then maybe it's time to look at the six sided belt.

    In a perfect World it is better to have a hand held shaft speed monitor to know exactly what shafts should be going at what speeds. But I can't quote what those speeds should be but someone on here will know.

    Someone mentioned about crossing a hill. Because of a peculiar situation once I had to combine across quite a steep slope and I was frankly a bit worried. So I had the unloading auger stuck out all the time on the top side of me and made sure that it was full of corn so as to act like a sidecar rider when going round a bend. Then when going back I could nip down to the bottom of the field and go across on a flat bit of ground.

    But crossing a slope is never a good idea because all the corn will end up on one side of the sieves and then you will overload them and chuck a narrow band of corn out because they can't handle it.

  12. #42

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    To be honest, this sounds like a speed issue (of the separating area) but what RPM can you get out of the drum and the travel speed indicator ? The reason for asking is I wonder if your engine needs opening up a bit. Assuming that your drum belts are O.K. and that your traction belt is O.K. then maybe it's time to look at the six sided belt.

    In a perfect World it is better to have a hand held shaft speed monitor to know exactly what shafts should be going at what speeds. But I can't quote what those speeds should be but someone on here will know.

    Someone mentioned about crossing a hill. Because of a peculiar situation once I had to combine across quite a steep slope and I was frankly a bit worried. So I had the unloading auger stuck out all the time on the top side of me and made sure that it was full of corn so as to act like a sidecar rider when going round a bend. Then when going back I could nip down to the bottom of the field and go across on a flat bit of ground.

    But crossing a slope is never a good idea because all the corn will end up on one side of the sieves and then you will overload them and chuck a narrow band of corn out because they can't handle it.
    By 6 sided belt do you mean the power band belt? The drum sits about the 1100 rpm at max speed

  13. #43
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    By 6 sided belt do you mean the power band belt? The drum sits about the 1100 rpm at max speed
    No, there is a six-sided belt that runs behind the main sheave of pulleys on the N/S of the combine and drives the fan amongst other things. Your drum speed isn't fast enough. If you got into some corn that was difficult to thresh that speed wouldn't be fast enough. Either the belts are shot or your engine needs opening up a bit. I suspect that whatever you are cutting is threshing well because there are some bold grains about this year. Ideally you need to be able to get 1350 out of the drum if required but of course you run it at whatever is sufficient to thresh the stuff properly. If you run it too fast you will crack grains, especially if it is very dry.

    When drum belts are shot they sit too low in the driving pulley and don't give the correct speed. You can get round this with a temporary fix by putting some small washers behind the small rams that close up the driving pulleys.

    Try your road speed. You don't need to be moving, just start her up and open up the road speed valve and see what you get from that.

  14. #44

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    I'll do that tomorrow (I think it goes up to 13 on the gauge but will check), thanks for all the advice! I know the belt you mean, I tensioned it a bit cause I thought it may of been slipping, could be it needs a new one. I have a new set of drum belts that I bought incase they were needed.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Check the speed of the straw-walker shaft, it should be 220rpm -5rpm ( In other words 215/220rpm ) DO NOT increase engine speed & thus walker speed above this if you wish to retain them in the combine
    Oh yes the 6 sided belt, we used to draw lots when one of those jobs came in . You will begin to work out the idiosyncrasy's of the Senator, good solid well build machine, but a pain in the ass to work on at times
    The drum should go up to 1500rpm, worth measuring the width of your belts against the ones on the machine to see if they are worn much, you can increase drum speed by adding washers under the hydraulic pistons, but remember to re set the speed if you fit the new drum belts, at least you should know by now if the drum pulleys are set up correctly though if both belts are wearing evenly !

  16. #46
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    I'll do that tomorrow (I think it goes up to 13 on the gauge but will check), thanks for all the advice! I know the belt you mean, I tensioned it a bit cause I thought it may of been slipping, could be it needs a new one. I have a new set of drum belts that I bought incase they were needed.
    13 isn't bad for road speed so I suspect that your engine RPM is O.K. and your traction belt is good. In that case you would be able to get a bit more out of the drum belts using the small washer technique. Just be careful about tightening up the 6-sided belt too much. That wraps round the fan pulley and goes back again. It is possible to put too much tension on that belt and screw the fan bearings up.

  17. #47
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Good advice from Gapples as usual. My techy guys used to check the speed of the walker shafts but I couldn't remember what the speed should be. And he is right about the 6 sided belt and replacing it only I wasn't going to mention that.

  18. #48

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    13 isn't bad for road speed so I suspect that your engine RPM is O.K. and your traction belt is good. In that case you would be able to get a bit more out of the drum belts using the small washer technique. Just be careful about tightening up the 6-sided belt too much. That wraps round the fan pulley and goes back again. It is possible to put too much tension on that belt and screw the fan bearings up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gapples View Post
    Check the speed of the straw-walker shaft, it should be 220rpm -5rpm ( In other words 215/220rpm ) DO NOT increase engine speed & thus walker speed above this if you wish to retain them in the combine
    Oh yes the 6 sided belt, we used to draw lots when one of those jobs came in . You will begin to work out the idiosyncrasy's of the Senator, good solid well build machine, but a pain in the ass to work on at times
    The drum should go up to 1500rpm, worth measuring the width of your belts against the ones on the machine to see if they are worn much, you can increase drum speed by adding washers under the hydraulic pistons, but remember to re set the speed if you fit the new drum belts, at least you should know by now if the drum pulleys are set up correctly though if both belts are wearing evenly !
    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Good advice from Gapples as usual. My techy guys used to check the speed of the walker shafts but I couldn't remember what the speed should be. And he is right about the 6 sided belt and replacing it only I wasn't going to mention that.
    Thanks chaps....... Thought that belt looked interesting

  19. #49
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    When we ran a Class combine up here in Orkney the fist sign things were getting too damp was clogged sieves, you lucky lads down south aint seen the conditions we have to combine in.
    If you keep checking your returns it will let you know when the sieves are chocking by having too much grain in sample

  20. #50

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Put a new belt on that goes to the sieves/walkers. Made all the difference and going grand again. Have a new 6 sided one also but hope to put off changing it till after harvests finished. Just 14 acres left to cut now.

  21. #51

    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Planning to change the drum belts & 6 sided one on this beast now, any tips/advice before I start?!

  22. #52
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    Planning to change the drum belts & 6 sided one on this beast now, any tips/advice before I start?!
    You will have to take the primary traction drive belt off first. Loosen the jockey pulley and slip it off the big pulley and then hang it out of the way. Then run the combine threshing mechanism and alter the drum speed to get the drum speed at it's maximum. If your belts are worn very bad this will prevent them from being in the very bottom of the pulley sheaves. You can cheat on drum speed by placing flat washers behind the little hydraulic rams on the driven pulleys which closes those a bit more but hopefully you won't need to do this for taking the belts off.

    Then, with the combine stopped slacken the pipes that feed those small rams and prise the two sets of driven pulleys apart. You might have a bit of difficulty if you haven't been greasing the sleeve that allows them to slide. The belts will now be slack. I always used to put my key drifts in between the sheaves of the driven pulleys but you can use some bits of wood between the sheaves because as soon as you take the belts off them they will close up automatically because of the large springs inside the cluster.

    Now take the belts off. But don't get your fingers anywhere near the gap between the sheaves of the driven pulleys. If they are sticking a bit and being prevented from sliding (again because you haven't been greasing the sleeve) they can suddenly let go and you will have to adapt to living the rest of your life one-handed.

    After you have taken the drum belts off it's relatively easy to get the 6 sided belt off and replaced.

    It's a few years since I changed any drum belts now and so I am relying on memory but Gapples will come and put you right as soon as he reads this thread.

    The whole job isn't difficult but just think about what you are doing. That spring in the driven pulleys is compressed from about 60cm to about 20cm ( That's just a guess) when installed so just take care. Good luck.
    Last edited by zaza; 25-08-14 at 11:23 AM.

  23. #53
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Hiya
    Zaza has pretty much covered the job, just have a good look at where everything fits, take photos, especially check where the guide plates for main threshing belt go, with engine off engage the threshing belt & have a look at the clearances on these plates.
    IF in any doubtfind someone with the spring compressing tools because that is a hell of a powerful spring, do not take chances or risks is at all unsure.
    Good luck & be careful

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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Never worked on a senator myself, but is there not an issue when changing some of the belts, with a danger from the spring loaded variator pulleys.
    If am right you should be extremely careful dismantling these as they can take your head off if not done correctly.
    I am probably thinking of a different model, but seem to remember stories of a half variator flying through a roof and across a car park when dismantled incorrectly.

    take care
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  25. #55
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    Never worked on a senator myself, but is there not an issue when changing some of the belts, with a danger from the spring loaded variator pulleys.
    If am right you should be extremely careful dismantling these as they can take your head off if not done correctly.
    I am probably thinking of a different model, but seem to remember stories of a half variator flying through a roof and across a car park when dismantled incorrectly.

    take care

    There is an extremely powerful coil spring in the front drum variator pulleys on a Senator. But you don't need to dismantle the pulleys to change the belts, just compress the spring. If the drum belts are not broken you can run the speed up to fast, stop engine & wedge the pulleys ( with spring ) open to hold them while you cha he the belts, but boy you need to careful you fit wedges securely & keep your fingers & hands out the pulleys.
    PS; Before fitting new drum belts you should check that both sets of pulleys are even so as not to wear out belts very quickly. There is a class special tool to check this.

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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    Never worked on a senator myself, but is there not an issue when changing some of the belts, with a danger from the spring loaded variator pulleys.
    If am right you should be extremely careful dismantling these as they can take your head off if not done correctly.
    I am probably thinking of a different model, but seem to remember stories of a half variator flying through a roof and across a car park when dismantled incorrectly.

    take care
    That's very true EF and hopefully Gapples & I have given sufficient warning about it. But you don't have to dismantle the drum pulleys to replace the drum belts. Follow our combined instructions and everything will be fine. It's not armageddon, it is something that people have to be aware of.

    Now let me tell a true story. I once had to replace a traction clutch on a Standard Matador in the field and a Claas-trained chap came and did it for me. At this stage people need to know that because there is a variator pulley on the end of the gearbox it follows that there is a damn great sprig inside there that has to taken apart to get at the clutch. But this chap knew what he was doing and he knew that he could let the spring off by undoing certain set-screws evenly (you can't do that with the drum pulleys - if you ever need to dismantle them you have to have the special tool to compress the spring or improvise somehow)

    Anyway, many years later I had to replace the clutch on a Senator that I had and having seen how the chap did the clutch on the Matador I thought that that it would be possible to use his technique of finding the relevant set-screws and letting them off gently.

    Bad move !!! You can't do that on a Senator (why the Hell not Herr Claas ????) and eventually the damn thing let go and the spring escaped !!! Fortunately I was standing by the side of it and it missed me but my young daughter had been directly in line a few moments earlier. The spring flew out of the combine and hit a 9" concrete block wall about 4ft away and actually dislodged one of the blocks. I know for sure that if I or my daughter had been in the way of it then it would have gone straight through us.

  27. #57
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    That's very true EF and hopefully Gapples & I have given sufficient warning about it. But you don't have to dismantle the drum pulleys to replace the drum belts. Follow our combined instructions and everything will be fine. It's not armageddon, it is something that people have to be aware of.

    Now let me tell a true story. I once had to replace a traction clutch on a Standard Matador in the field and a Claas-trained chap came and did it for me. At this stage people need to know that because there is a variator pulley on the end of the gearbox it follows that there is a damn great sprig inside there that has to taken apart to get at the clutch. But this chap knew what he was doing and he knew that he could let the spring off by undoing certain set-screws evenly (you can't do that with the drum pulleys - if you ever need to dismantle them you have to have the special tool to compress the spring or improvise somehow)

    Anyway, many years later I had to replace the clutch on a Senator that I had and having seen how the chap did the clutch on the Matador I thought that that it would be possible to use his technique of finding the relevant set-screws and letting them off gently.

    Bad move !!! You can't do that on a Senator (why the Hell not Herr Claas ????) and eventually the damn thing let go and the spring escaped !!! Fortunately I was standing by the side of it and it missed me but my young daughter had been directly in line a few moments earlier. The spring flew out of the combine and hit a 9" concrete block wall about 4ft away and actually dislodged one of the blocks. I know for sure that if I or my daughter had been in the way of it then it would have gone straight through us.
    Indeed, the Matadors had 2very long allen screws & 4 short ones, you took one out a time until you found the long screws.
    The Senator of course needed special tools, those with coil springs & not Belleville's, so many different set ups.
    Certainly not to be played with if you are not sure what the job involves, the Matadors & I believe right up the early Senators, Protectors & Mercator's also had an issue with the set up in the spring loaded drum pulleys. The 2 sets of pulley sheeves were held apart with a spacer bolt which had a but on each end, these nuts/bolt were known to sometimes break off in the inside of the back pulleys leaving the spring to be held compressed by the long Gibb head key, knock out the key & bang, the outer set of pulleys would or could if not seized greet you at head night at great speed.
    These spacers bolts were later replaced with normal bolts with a spacer on them, but it still pays to check before dismantling ;-)

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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Happy days eh Gapples ? At least we didn't need a laptop to get them going again. Fairly basic engineering really but they never broke down when they were standing in the shed for the other 11 months of the year.

  29. #59
    Senior Member Gapples's Avatar
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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Happy days eh Gapples ? At least we didn't need a laptop to get them going again. Fairly basic engineering really but they never broke down when they were standing in the shed for the other 11 months of the year.

    Yes indeed, very happy, although I have to say I much preferred the 6 range & 8 range as far as working on them went lol.
    I worked on class right up until 2001 & then did plenty of them while at the CasIH dealer I went to, so I did eventually have use a laptop on the Lexions.

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    Re: Claas Senator 80

    I once bought a "77000" Senator and I guess you know what problems I had with that one but I stuck with it and beat it into submission in the end.

    I had a friend who had a Senny before that, I thik it was a wide axle one, and he had a big combining round and within about 3 years it had dwindled to half of what it was. I went and helped him out in 1968, a horrible wet year and I remember combining laid barley with my Mat. Standard in November that had been sprayed with Reglone to get rid of the chickweed. Could only cut for about 3 hours in the middle of the day and it was coming out of the tank like porridge, was having to poke it towards the auger with a stick and with the overcoat that I was wearing it wasn't the best job I've ever had.

    My friend eventually took Manns to court over it and they gave him one of the last of the Giants in Senny colours and as you know, a Giant was one of the most reliable combines ever made by anybody. And as you will also know, in those days there was nothing that would pick up laid corn like a Claas would and I used to pride myself on picking up everything I could but it cost me two smashed drums over the years. That's a nasty noise when that happens and you know you are in for a long night !

    I bought my stuff from Midland Shires Farmers who were Claas dealers and they ran a pony down to Saxham every night for bits that they hadn't got in any of their depots and that was very useful.

    I'm glad I did it but I wouldn't want to do it all over again.

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