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Thread: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

  1. #31
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    If you paid with paypal....... Run a dispute and recall your money (100%).... Then give the guy back his 58 euro (+ the 55 you offered to begin with). Both of you were wrong but he stole money from you by accepting a payment for something he didn't provide, regardless of email traffic. Don't use the moral copout, everyone has morals, just too many use/preach them to fit the situation that serves them best at the time. You's a dummy and he's a thief... get over the bickering and get on paypal before too much time passes and get your money back. Give him back his 58 (113) bucks, and all will live happily ever after.....
    He isn't a thief, he sold the item, Phil bought it, for all we know, had phil not bid he could have sold it to someone who did want it for a fiver less. He hasn't kept the item and Phil's money, he has resold it, with phil's permission, and forwarded the proceeds to phil.

    If you bought something in a real life auction and then jibbed on it, this is precisely what would happen to you. the auctioneer would put the item up again, and you'd be liable for any shortfall in the subsequent hammer price. You could say the guy's being a bit harsh and perhaps could have split the difference with phil, but you can't say he's being unfair, or dishonest.

    As for the pay pal dispute. He could put in an item not received claim, which would require the seller to provide proof of delivery, which obviously he could not, but that would technically be a false claim, since phil has received the item in that he's paid for it and it was his, and now the item has been re sold and he's received the money.

    To be right, he'd have to file a significantly not as described dispute, and it's by no means a given that ebay would find in his favour, the item was described as an old cultivator with some tines missing, and it was an old cultivator with some tines missing. the fact that it wasn't suitable for phil's specific needs is not relevant.

    Phil is free to leave whatever feedback he feels is appropriate for the transaction though, as the seller can no longer leave any negative comment in return for him.

  2. #32
    Senior Member daven's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Applesquasher View Post
    This is the worst part of ebay.
    It is if abused......... Gotta let your concience and morals guide you to do the right thing
    Be your self and speak your mind. Them that matter won't mind and the others don't matter

  3. #33
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    It is if abused......... Gotta let your concience and morals guide you to do the right thing
    And your conscience and morals would guide you to making a false INR claim?

  4. #34
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Sorry Phil , But you should have just fetched it and resold it yourself.
    Mind you ,he was technically wrong to agree to resell it for you , although E Bay are very unlikely to see your side of it ,I should think!

    Put it down to one of those things and accept his cheque

  5. #35
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Phil, you purchased an item, which although loosely described, there was no falsehood there, if you wanted to know more, it was your place to ask. If you had sold it to me, and I turned round and said it was too wide, narrow, big small, red, green, would you not be annoyed and want some money to account for your time, ebay fees, paypal fees, general faff, and the ballache of relisting the item which would then look dodgy to other buyers?

    Leave the seller alone, he is not a con man, or out to get you, Im sure you are also genuine man, but this time its your fault. Sorry.

  6. #36
    Senior Member daven's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    And your conscience and morals would guide you to making a false INR claim?
    My concience, morals, and common sense wouldn't let me get in that situation in the first place...
    Bottom line, if you take payment for something and didn't give that person what they paid for, you are wrong. Technicalities are a crooks way of easing their own concience... In this situation, depending on the time I felt like dedicating, I'd either
    1) Run the dispute for 100% then give the seller what I promised (55 pounds) for his trouble and hope we both learned from the deal.
    2) Take the 58 pounds and call the 42 pounds a payment for a good assessment of the character of the seller (and as a bonus the character of several folks replying to this thread) and call it good...... More important things in life than haggling with crooks.....

    That's just me tho......
    Be your self and speak your mind. Them that matter won't mind and the others don't matter

  7. #37
    Senior Member Songsheet's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    My concience, morals, and common sense wouldn't let me get in that situation in the first place...
    Bottom line, if you take payment for something and didn't give that person what they paid for, you are wrong. Technicalities are a crooks way of easing their own concience... In this situation, depending on the time I felt like dedicating, I'd either
    1) Run the dispute for 100% then give the seller what I promised (55 pounds) for his trouble and hope we both learned from the deal.
    2) Take the 58 pounds and call the 42 pounds a payment for a good assessment of the character of the seller (and as a bonus the character of several folks replying to this thread) and call it good...... More important things in life than haggling with crooks.....

    That's just me tho......
    But the seller was quite prepared to let Phil, the purchaser, have what he had paid for. The fact is that Phil discovered, too late, that the item in question wasn't the size he assumed it would be Nd that, I am afraid, if Phil's fault for not checking! To call the seller in this case a crook is way out of order.

    sorry, Phil but this one's entirely down to you and I do hope you don't make negative remarks on the seller's account, as it would entirely out of order to do so.

  8. #38
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    He did well to give you anything at all, you can't expect to make a mistake, tell a man how it is going to get sorted and expect him to say ' yea ok'. You also started with the abusive language far to easily and if you had done that to me you would have got nowt at all. As someone else said if you had cut the machine to fit you would have ended up with some spare tines and all for £158! It is hardly dear at that.

  9. #39
    Senior Member daven's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Songsheet View Post
    But the seller was quite prepared to let Phil, the purchaser, have what he had paid for. The fact is that Phil discovered, too late, that the item in question wasn't the size he assumed it would be Nd that, I am afraid, if Phil's fault for not checking! To call the seller in this case a crook is way out of order.

    sorry, Phil but this one's entirely down to you and I do hope you don't make negative remarks on the seller's account, as it would entirely out of order to do so.
    To each their own.... I know what lets me sleep at night and will let me meet the man when the time comes with my head held high....
    Just one last thought to put out there on the character of the seller..... in order for Phil to have got the item for 155 pounds, someone else had to bid 154 (or 150?).... An honest/fair seller would just contact that bidder and let them have it and bill Phil for the difference. There is no difference in fees, just that pound or five that an honest Phil would gladly send him 10 to cover.... That the seller didn't take that route which is only an email away, only suggests to me that he (or a buddy) was the next bidder himself....
    You folks dress it however it best lets you sleep.......
    Be your self and speak your mind. Them that matter won't mind and the others don't matter

  10. #40
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    I'm also with the seller I'm afraid. I would have cursed myself for not asking the width, gone and picked it up and then worked out what to do about it. My mistake, my problem.

  11. #41
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    To each their own.... I know what lets me sleep at night and will let me meet the man when the time comes with my head held high....
    Just one last thought to put out there on the character of the seller..... in order for Phil to have got the item for 155 pounds, someone else had to bid 154 (or 150?).... An honest/fair seller would just contact that bidder and let them have it and bill Phil for the difference. There is no difference in fees, just that pound or five that an honest Phil would gladly send him 10 to cover.... That the seller didn't take that route which is only an email away, only suggests to me that he (or a buddy) was the next bidder himself....
    You folks dress it however it best lets you sleep.......
    You don't know that 2 , 3 or 10 others weren't bidding at it and didn't look again. Be careful about running to the moral high ground!

  12. #42
    Senior Member daven's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by wastedyears View Post
    You don't know that 2 , 3 or 10 others weren't bidding at it and didn't look again. Be careful about running to the moral high ground!
    Be your self and speak your mind. Them that matter won't mind and the others don't matter

  13. #43

    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    We wanted a small second hand spring tine cultivator to go behind our compact tractor...so had a look on e-bay.

    Sure enough one came up that was not too far from us, no description in the listing other than it had not been used in a long while & needed a couple (8 in fact) of new tines. The guy has 100% feed back (as we do) so we decided to bid on it.
    We won the Auction the following day with a bid of £155.00.
    I immediately e-mailed the guy to ask the exact location. He replied with the address & postcode.
    It was further than I wanted to take our little compact on the road, and I didn't really want the hassle of driving the MTX 150 through the middle of Exeter & out the other side...so I sent him another e-mail & asked what size & weight the cultivator was so I could be sure it would fit in a mates medium sized ifor williams trailer.
    Turned out that the Cultivator in question was over 8 feet wide...so too big for the trailer, but more to the point it was too big for the compact.

    I immediately e-mailed the guy & told him that the cultivator was too big for what we wanted, but as it was partly my own stupid fault for not asking about the size Before we bid on it, I had paid in full (via paypal) & asked that he relisted the thing & then, once he had sold it and received cleared funds, refunded at least £100.00 of the £155.00 we had paid him.
    We did not get a reply....but a few days later noticed that he had in fact re-listed the item ! A couple of days later it sold for £58.00.
    Another week passed without hearing from him so I sent him an e-mail...and this is what transpired -


    ****
    Pleased to see you sold the Cultivator last weekend.
    We look forward to receiving our refund.

    Phil.



    Please forward bank details and I will transfer the£58 direct to you.
    Regards

    ****


    ****
    I Have given this some thought....and you are not really showing us a lot of respect to be honest !
    After winning the Auction we could have easily just said "changed our minds...don't want it" and not paid you for it.
    The worst you could have done is leave us Negative Feedback.
    We did not do that - we explained the situation to you & paid in full...and asked that you refund £100.00 of the £155.00 selling price, once you had sold the item. I thought that £55.00 for your trouble was a very generous gesture!
    You now take the piss & insult us by offering us 58 quid ???

    If that is how you want to play it then fine.....I will open a case with both e-bay & paypal asking for a refund of the full £155.00 - on the grounds that the description in your listing was not accurate.

    Phil.


    Phil
    When you bid on an item on ebay, it is your responsibility to ensure it is what you want. The item was not described inaccurately.
    If you had picked the item up and then decided it was not what you wanted, relisted and subsequently resold the item, you would have realised the same amount that I have realised, which I am willing to refund to you (without you having to lift a finger). Why you think I should give you more back than I got for the item is beyond comprehension. You should not have bid in the first place and wasted everybody’s time. If you are willing to accept the £58 I will forward a cheque to you.
    I look forward to receiving your reply.
    ****


    ****
    We don't need a lecture in who has what responsibility when it comes to buying & selling on e-bay !
    After the sale, having been told by you how big the cultivator was, we realised we had made a genuine mistake & the machine was to large !
    You seem to be totally ignoring the very important fact that once we had "won the item" we could have very easily just not paid for it.
    That would no doubt have resulted in you leaving us negative feedback...and, under those circumstances, you would have been perfectly justified in doing that ! But it would not have cost us a single penny !!
    We "did the right thing" and paid for the machine in full...we then contacted you immediately to appologise for our error & told you that we did not want the cultivator ! We suggested that you re-list the item & upon the sale of it you refunded £100.00 of the £155.00 that we had paid you.
    You are now being greedy by trying to get away with refunding us what the Cultivator made after you re-listed it ! Did you contact any of the other bidders that were bidding in the first Auction & give them a "second chance offer" ???
    Why did it only make £58.00 in the second Auction ??
    Now it is my turn to give you a lecture.....
    It goes without saying that when it comes to e-bay there are some very unscrupulous & dishonest people that buy & sell goods !
    One of the reasons we chose to bid on your cultivator was the fact that you had 100% feedback.
    As you can see from our feedback we also have 100% !
    This means that neither one of us should fall in to the "dishonest" category or, hopefully, the unscrupulous Category!
    We will not accept a refund of £58.00 !
    If we do not receive a refund of £100.00 in the next week or so...then I'm afraid we will then know that there are obviously people in the unscrupulous category that have 100% feedback...and it certainly is not us !!!!!!!

    I have not received a reply to that last e-mail...but when I came in tonight I see we have an e-mail from paypal stating that we have received a partial refund of the £155.00. The refund is £58.00.

    Was I a bit of a plonker not to check out the size first....YES.
    But Did I back out of the deal & not pay after finding out it was not what we wanted...CERTAINLY NOT.

    This guy is nothing far short of a con artist & I think I would have every right leaving him Negative feedback !
    It really does piss me off when good, honest decent people like us get ripped off by arse holes like him!
    something the same has happened to me , bought a wrapper for 1200,from a guy in essex, sent the money and he said when you are ready to pick it up just email me , after that we got no answer from him and got to trace him from the address we sent the money to now he said the wrapper is dumped and i will give you back half your money , ,
    it is just me take me as i am

  14. #44
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    The answer is staring you in the face!!! you said there were 8 tines missing. get it home and move the tines closer together where you want them and five minutes with the angle grinder cut it to whatever size you thought it was. Job done everyones happy!

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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    To each their own.... I know what lets me sleep at night and will let me meet the man when the time comes with my head held high....
    Just one last thought to put out there on the character of the seller..... in order for Phil to have got the item for 155 pounds, someone else had to bid 154 (or 150?).... An honest/fair seller would just contact that bidder and let them have it and bill Phil for the difference. There is no difference in fees, just that pound or five that an honest Phil would gladly send him 10 to cover.... That the seller didn't take that route which is only an email away, only suggests to me that he (or a buddy) was the next bidder himself....
    You folks dress it however it best lets you sleep.......
    Sorry but I've sold many many tens of thousands of items on eBay with a current feedback of nearly 100k positive and second chance offers rarely work in my experience. They have usually bought something else, changed their mind or find the whole thing suspicious and back out (I guess some people assume dis-honesty before other explanations). It's possible he did this and the other guy (it could have been just one other) had either bid on another machine, decided it wasn't for them or maybe he assumed that the buyer (Phil) was one of the seller's mates and was running it up against him. Maybe he assumed that if the other bidder didn't want it then the seller would re-list it and he could get it cheaper (£58 for instance) as there would be one less bidder. Maybe he had bid up to £154 in the heat of the moment and on reflection had decided it wasn't worth anywhere near that? Could be many reasons why the under-bidder was genuine but then didn't want it.

  16. #46
    Senior Member daven's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by happycows View Post
    The answer is staring you in the face!!! you said there were 8 tines missing. get it home and move the tines closer together where you want them and five minutes with the angle grinder cut it to whatever size you thought it was. Job done everyones happy!
    Prolly more than is being told on both sides... But you gotta admit, the thread sure is an eye opener
    Be your self and speak your mind. Them that matter won't mind and the others don't matter

  17. #47
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Phil, you're a plonker on more than 1 occasion in this. No. 1 - You bought the item on eBay without knowing what you were buying, there's a place to click on called "ask the seller a question" . Not for the seller to ask the public a question! No. 2 - You should have collected the item and sold it yourself thereby you'd have been in control of how much you got for it. Do you honestly expect someone else to financially cover your mistake? No. 3 - Starting a thread on here! Open to ridicule.

  18. #48
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    I'm with the seller I'm afraid.

    He's been generous enough in refunding you what the second bidder paid.

    It's only a £100

    You could have collected it and re-sold it yourself if you wanted to maximise your return for your original bid

  19. #49
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    +1

    Unfortunately the only reasonable defence you would have is if the item was in some way mis-sold. As this was obviously not the case, it is your obligation to complete your side of the contract with which you proceeded when you clicked 'buy' - when the hammer falls, pay and collect. I don't believe the other guy would be obliged to give any sort of refund. I think he may have been a tad hasty reselling the item so quickly, but that doesn't alter the original fault, which was yours.

    Sometimes, you make a misjudgement and you take the hit. I've had plenty of far more expensive ones, and I everyone does in their lifetime. My biggest single error to date cost about ten grand, just on a 'technical matter' after I was let down by someone who broke their word to me. All you can do is put on a smile, and realise you have lived to fight another day. To me, you've got a very cheap lesson there.

  20. #50
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    I've never brought or sold anything on e-bay. This tread doesn't help to change my reluctance!

  21. #51
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    This thread proves one thing to me - the internet may be anonymous, but its perfectly possible to make an accurate assessment of a person's character via their written words alone...............................

    Oh, and this scenario is definitely a case of 'You bought it, you f*cked up, you carry the can'.

  22. #52
    Senior Member davidroberts30's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by snowhite View Post
    something the same has happened to me , bought a wrapper for 1200,from a guy in essex, sent the money and he said when you are ready to pick it up just email me , after that we got no answer from him and got to trace him from the address we sent the money to now he said the wrapper is dumped and i will give you back half your money , ,
    did you buy on ebay or from the thieves direct
    this is obtaining money by deception and you need to call the police
    maybe name and shame too so no one else gets caught

  23. #53
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    This thread just goes to show how essential it is for anyone trying to run a business to have a working knowledge of the Law of Contract!

    It takes two to make a deal and both parties have to agree if one wants to vary that contract.

    Phil bought the harrows at close of bidding. The seller was being very kind to re-sell them for him and to store them until sold. He would have been quite within his rights to have charged for re-listing the harrows (as he was effectively acting as Phil's agent) and for storing them! Phil sold the harrows he bought through an agent (the original seller) and he sold them for £58.

    If the harrows had sold second time around for, say, £300, who would have been due the balance? Would Phil still be shouting if the initial seller had sent him a cheque for that amount?

    As it happens, Phil lost out. But, if he hadn't, would he ever have started this thread??

  24. #54
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by snowhite View Post
    something the same has happened to me , bought a wrapper for 1200,from a guy in essex, sent the money and he said when you are ready to pick it up just email me , after that we got no answer from him and got to trace him from the address we sent the money to now he said the wrapper is dumped and i will give you back half your money , ,
    This is something quite different to the OP.

    Get involved in this, ebay, police if needed.

    This is not a missunderstanding, or someone changne their mind, this is theft.

    Hope it works out ok.

  25. #55
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Has anyone ever seen on old spring tined cultivator less than 8 ft wide.

    Maybe a 9 tine tiller with springs, but that wouldn't have tines missing.

    Was there no picture ?

  26. #56
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Phil, you screwed up. Get over it and get on. We once sold a month's production of milk and never got paid, lesson learnt and learnt the hard way. I nearly bought an IW cattle trailer tyre on ebay until I realised it was the wrong size. My wife would say "just shut up about that bl>>dy thing and worry more about me and the kids!"

  27. #57
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by goweresque View Post
    This thread proves one thing to me - the internet may be anonymous, but its perfectly possible to make an accurate assessment of a person's character via their written words alone...............................

    Oh, and this scenario is definitely a case of 'You bought it, you f*cked up, you carry the can'.
    +1

  28. #58
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    This is a laugh this one.....

    Like a newspaper article in August when nothing's happening. 'A spokesman for parrots said he was glad that no parrots were involved in the spat between Phil and the oversize cultivator seller'.

    Come on Phil, man up. Your fault. You should have had an idea of the size from the photo - and if no photos even more reason to ask.

    I would have gone and got it and resold it and taken the hit if there was one not relied on the seller to re-sell it for me.

    And as for 'I could have just not paid for it' - that's the worst option. eBay is an auction site not sale or return.......

  29. #59
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    I had something similar this week, sold a machine to a guy who had 100% feedback, then no reply to my requests to get in touch, came back 2 days later saying he had received bad news about his health and could not take the machine.
    I replied i was sorry to hear and opened a case to cancel the transaction and re-listed it, I know it wont make anything near what it made originally, but thats not as bad as receiving bad news....
    Sometimes you just got to take whatever hit it is on the chin and move on, count yourself lucky to be here to fight another day.

    For the record, in the OP's case I'm with the seller, can't see what he did wrong, and he was very gracious not to drop to Phil's level of name calling and insults...

  30. #60
    Senior Member Phil's Avatar
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    Re: Cultivator bought on e-bay ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Newholland View Post
    Hi Phil,

    You are at fault. You placed a winning bid and you have bought the machine. You should then collect and pay the money. It is your mistake that your tractor is not big enough and nothing to do with the seller - you need to know what your buying - why should somebody else run round after you for free???? You see a machine on ebay, you go and look at it, check it, go home and bid. If you cant be bothered - you simply can NOT place a bid, then decide you don't fancy it and decide to just not pay as you suggested above. Its not the sellers fault he did not write the width down - ASK.

    now, if the seller had written 5ft wide and in actual fact the cultivator was 8ft then fair enough

    Go round, apologise, pay the money and collect the cultivator and stop ruining ebay please.
    Did you actually bother to read the details of what happened ....before spouting out your advise.

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