Matbro TS 280 Hydraulics

[ACE]

Thank you.
Worked fine for a while....

Now I have another problem!
I've not used the boom extension for a long time, and came to use it today, fully extended it, and now can't retract it again. The engine changes note when I press the control button, but it doesn't move.
When we used it regularly a number of years ago, it sometimes did this, and the answer was to push the forks into the ground, and drive forward at the same time. But that doesn't help....What should I try next?

if its changing engine note when you go to pull boom back in then its going to be the ram or the lock out valve on the ram, that or its very low pump pressure?

its not uncommon for the ram to get damaged! if driven hard in to something with boom out a little or if you are forcing the boom out in to a heap while driving in at same time etc its possible the extension ram bends upwards and the tube contacts the tilt ram mounting lug in side the boom and put a nice dent in the tube! and bending the ram rod as well often!
This knackers the piston seals and turns the ram in to a single acting ram meaning it only wants to push out not pull in!

With out taking the ram out (which you cant do with out taking the boom out!) you cant/wont see the damage. the lock out valve on the other hand can be replaced with out taking the boom out so you may want to look there first, unscrew it see if there are bits of oil seals in it jamming it? if you move the adjuster on it then its scrap anyway as they can only be set on a special test bench/rig.

If the ram is dented then it will need a new tube made for it and possibly a new rod this will be expensive due to the length of it and not all ram repair shops will be capable of doing it due to the length! not done one in years as hardly any matbros around me now but I would expect new tube and rod plus piston clean and reseal to be about £1000? Then you will want new wear pad guides and screws for the ram supports and new pads and shims for the boom as well at least at the rear anyway as they cant be replaced with boom in so fit all new at the rear and pick the best used ones for the front?

[gilt279]

if its changing engine note when you go to pull boom back in then its going to be the ram or the lock out valve on the ram, that or its very low pump pressure?

its not uncommon for the ram to get damaged! if driven hard in to something with boom out a little or if you are forcing the boom out in to a heap while driving in at same time etc its possible the extension ram bends upwards and the tube contacts the tilt ram mounting lug in side the boom and put a nice dent in the tube! and bending the ram rod as well often!
This knackers the piston seals and turns the ram in to a single acting ram meaning it only wants to push out not pull in!

With out taking the ram out (which you cant do with out taking the boom out!) you cant/wont see the damage. the lock out valve on the other hand can be replaced with out taking the boom out so you may want to look there first, unscrew it see if there are bits of oil seals in it jamming it? if you move the adjuster on it then its scrap anyway as they can only be set on a special test bench/rig.

If the ram is dented then it will need a new tube made for it and possibly a new rod this will be expensive due to the length of it and not all ram repair shops will be capable of doing it due to the length! not done one in years as hardly any matbros around me now but I would expect new tube and rod plus piston clean and reseal to be about £1000? Then you will want new wear pad guides and screws for the ram supports and new pads and shims for the boom as well at least at the rear anyway as they cant be replaced with boom in so fit all new at the rear and pick the best used ones for the front?

I don't think that its been abused since it was last fully extended. and this time it was under no load, with only pallet tines attached.
It may however, with it being such a large ram, have used up all the oil in the tank? (it was very low), however, other functions still work. I've since added 20l oil.
It wouldn't at all surprise me if the pump pressure was poor, but wouldn't driving forward, while retracting the boom counteract that?
I haven't really done any work on this for years. Last time I took the boom out, I had another tele to hold it. Also I lost the steel that I used to use for holding up the boom while working under it, presumably I'll need this to get at the lock out valve, or could I safely rest the extended boom on a sleeper wall? I couldn't even get to look at it to see how it comes off, without climbing underneath, and its a bit cold to work on it outside at present!
I fear that if presented with a repair quote of £1000+, then my disreputable machine will be heading for the scrapyard.

[gilt279]

[QUOTE=ACE;277331]if its changing engine note when you go to pull boom back in then its going to be the ram or the lock out valve on the ram, that or its very low pump pressure?

BTW, I noticed that there was a loose wear-pad shim lying on the Hyd pipes at the back of the boom. Looked as if it'd been there for years!

[ACE]

I don't think that its been abused since it was last fully extended. and this time it was under no load, with only pallet tines attached.
It may however, with it being such a large ram, have used up all the oil in the tank? (it was very low), however, other functions still work. I've since added 20l oil.
It wouldn't at all surprise me if the pump pressure was poor, but wouldn't driving forward, while retracting the boom counteract that?
I haven't really done any work on this for years. Last time I took the boom out, I had another tele to hold it. Also I lost the steel that I used to use for holding up the boom while working under it, presumably I'll need this to get at the lock out valve, or could I safely rest the extended boom on a sleeper wall? I couldn't even get to look at it to see how it comes off, without climbing underneath, and its a bit cold to work on it outside at present!
I fear that if presented with a repair quote of £1000+, then my disreputable machine will be heading for the scrapyard.

The extension ram gets dented by the tilt ram mounting up in the boom for this to happen the boom has to be almost fully in. if its extended by about 2 or 3ft? the tilt ram has by this time gone past the end of the tube on the extension ram so there is a lot more clearance between it and the extension ram rod which can if pushed hard enough and the wear pads are all worn and booms sagging enough can then bend the extension ram rod aswell.

unscrewing the extension ram lock out valve with it up in the air is not my idea of fun at all once that valve is out there is nothing holding the extension up and will slide back in faster than you can blink showering you in oil and possibly ripping you hand off in the process as the lock out valve gets blown out under the pressure.

(a few years ago there was a chap working at I think Terex cranes doing similar with a lock out valve, it was under full pressure and as he unscrewed it it came to the last thread and then flew out and straight though is head! Do not under estimate the force of hydraulic pressure as instant death can be the result!)

[gilt279]

unscrewing the extension ram lock out valve with it up in the air is not my idea of fun at all once that valve is out there is nothing holding the extension up and will slide back in faster than you can blink showering you in oil and possibly ripping you hand off in the process as the lock out valve gets blown out under the pressure.

(a few years ago there was a chap working at I think Terex cranes doing similar with a lock out valve, it was under full pressure and as he unscrewed it it came to the last thread and then flew out and straight though is head! Do not under estimate the force of hydraulic pressure as instant death can be the result!)

Thanks for wisely putting the fear of God into me. I was already scared enough working on any hydraulics, while under that boom!
Is it possible to get at that valve, with the boom horizontal?

[ACE]

Thanks for wisely putting the fear of God into me. I was already scared enough working on any hydraulics, while under that boom!
Is it possible to get at that valve, with the boom horizontal?

No, only access is with boom in the air and through that hole. unless with boom down you can go in over the top of engine? would have to loosen the valve 1/4 turn first while in the air I expect?

Remember if the boom is fully powered out and valve is jammed it will not release the pressure out of the ram. so don't assume if there no pressure in the pipes to ram that the ram is free of pressure even if its on the ground and free of load etc, if its at full stroke with a knackered lock out valve there is no way to release the pressure in it! had this on the tilt rams of the TR250 machines before!

[vidar]

the inlet module is the first section on the spool block with the main pressure pipe and the return pipe back to tank out of it, you will have to undo the three tie rods that hold the whole block together to replace it, and no they are not repairable.

Ideally you will take the whole block apart and clean/replace all the orings between each section, but if block is bone dry and you want to cut corners then cable tie all the solenoids together, then cable tie the hydraulic pipes and also the manual operation side of the valve block then you can replace the module with out disturbing the orings etc and not even remove the block from the machine.

oh and change the hydraulic filters and clean the tank out would be a good idea too. you not got your PMs switched on, would you like a price on module? send me a PM

Hello Ace. I have the same problem on my TS280. Works decent for about 10 - 15 minutes. Then the hydraulic starts to weaken. If i activate two functions simultainisly it work again, but weak. i checked the hydraulic pressure (warm engine) and it gives only 100 bars. i have an "in house" mechanic and although hydraulics is not is strong side, he belives that the main hydraulic pump is the problem. Please let me know what you think? I have read your previous answers and i am interested in a price on the inlet module, aswell as price on the main pump. I cant do PM because i recently joined, but my mail adress is john@toughten.org if you prefeer direct contact. regards John

[Garis1989]

it will be the inlet module on the main spool block quite common. it can also feck the pump quite quickly, or if the pump is on its last legs and spits a load of metal out then that can feck it too.

Stick a pressure gauge on it there is a test port on the inlet section if you don't have the screw coupler then remove it and the thread is 1/4bsp, main pressure should be 3200psi when hot and should hold it there steady. what you will find is pressure will be low and will spike up and down as the main relief valve in the inlet module sticks it will also reduce the oil flow and make the oil run very hot.

Hello do you can send my picture who is main inlet module?