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Thread: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

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    Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Excuse the possibly thick question but all our fencing is either 2 or 3 strands of barb. I'm refencing for sheep and everywhere locally supplies 8/80/15 and reading posts on here it's what everyone seems to use. But why?

    What's wrong with 8/11/30 cattle fence or 6/90/30 sheep fence? I'll be putting ht wire along the bottom then netting, then a single barb wire on top with room for another barb or electric wire if needed in future.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Historically the British Standard 4102/4 for stock fencing was based on the:-

    wire diameters
    Verticals spacings
    Number of line wires.

    C8-80-15

    C= 3.15mm top & bottom line wires, 2.5mm other line wires & verticals.
    8= number of line wires
    80= 800mm overall height {0.8M}
    15= 150mm spacing between verticals

    C8-80-15 was the "pig fencing" standard, however livestock farmers adopted it as the "standard" fencing for cattle with 1 or 2 lines of barbed wire on top for extra height. The 800mm overall height was fine for pigs and sheep and the 150mm vertical spacing meant piglets & lambs couldnt get through.

    Other heights, vertical spacings {300mm for cattle} and wire diameters were made to suit different types of livestock. L = light weight, B = heavy weight C = medium weight. The L was only 2.5mm verticals & horizontals for temporary or short term fencing situations.

    The L6-90-30 lower height fencing was aimed at the uplands livestock farmer as a "hedge bottom" or "bank top" fencing.

    The wire industry is geared up to churn out huge volumes of C8-80-15 as their standard product. If a customer/dealer wants other less popular styles, often there is a delay in delivery because they only make limited number runs as and when there is a demand. Therefore the price of C8-80-15 is lower based on volume production.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Historically the British Standard 404 for stock fencing was based on the:-

    wire diameters
    Verticals spacings
    Number of line wires.

    C8-80-15

    C= 3.15mm top & bottom line wires, 2.5mm other line wires & verticals.
    8= number of line wires
    80= 800mm overall height {0.8M}
    15= 150mm spacing between verticals

    C8-80-15 was the "pig fencing" standard, however livestock farmers adopted it as the "standard" fencing for cattle with 1 or 2 lines of barbed wire on top for extra height. The 800mm overall height was fine for pigs and sheep and the 150mm vertical spacing meant piglets & lambs couldnt get through.

    Other heights, vertical spacings {300mm for cattle} and wire diameters were made to suit different types of livestock. L = light weight, B = heavy weight C = medium weight. The L was only 2.5mm verticals & horizontals for temporary or short term fencing situations.

    The L5-60-15 lower height fencing was aimed at the uplands livestock farmer as a "hedge bottom" or "bank top" fencing.

    The wire industry is geared up to churn out huge volumes of C8-80-15 as their standard product. If a customer/dealer wants other less popular styles, often there is a delay in delivery because they only make limited number runs as and when there is a demand. Therefore the price of C8-80-15 is lower based on volume production.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Maybe the best size to avoid stuck heads?

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I always use HT8/80/30. I think less stuck sheep this way as if they do get their heads in then they can usually get back out, unlike 8/80/15. Plus it weighs a little less per roll and is slightly cheaper
    On the downside it does damage easier if it hasn't been tensioned decently

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I use HT 8/80/30 against hedges and HT 8/80/22 in the open. Got fed up with lambs getting stuck in the 15.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorbuthappy View Post
    I use HT 8/80/30 against hedges and HT 8/80/22 in the open. Got fed up with lambs getting stuck in the 15.
    Thats the best way to do it. I wish I had more customers who would accept anything other than c8:80:15!

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by _JH_ View Post
    Excuse the possibly thick question but all our fencing is either 2 or 3 strands of barb. I'm refencing for sheep and everywhere locally supplies 8/80/15 and reading posts on here it's what everyone seems to use. But why?

    What's wrong with 8/11/30 cattle fence or 6/90/30 sheep fence? I'll be putting ht wire along the bottom then netting, then a single barb wire on top with room for another barb or electric wire if needed in future.
    8-80-20 or 8-80-30 is the way to go unlees you want to spend forever freeing stuck heads and moaing about lost tags.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    What nobody has said so far, and is certainly true in many places, is that C8-80-15 is most often 20% or more cheaper than the same length of any other mesh fencing.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGSP View Post
    What nobody has said so far, and is certainly true in many places, is that C8-80-15 is most often 20% or more cheaper than the same length of any other mesh fencing.
    'You get what you pay for' springs to mind.

    But are you sure? C grade wire is generally in 50m lengths. MVF online price is 38 for 50m, their cheapest HT 8/80/30 is 52, but that's 100m.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorbuthappy View Post
    'You get what you pay for' springs to mind.

    But are you sure? C grade wire is generally in 50m lengths. MVF online price is 38 for 50m, their cheapest HT 8/80/30 is 52, but that's 100m.
    blimey thats cheap ....even the next up at 59......i paid 77 for mvf own ht8/80/15 today....doh

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Thanks for all the replies. As I thought, everyone uses it because everyone uses it.

    Local ag stores only seem to sell C8/80/15 so I haven't been able to price HT, or 8/80/30 size, are there any other online places apart from MVF? What are they like to deal with?

    To me the increased post spacing for HT seems a no brainer, unsure why nobody local stocks it.

    Tornado and Uniwire seem to do all sorts of sizes, might call them for some advice tomorrow.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Mole Valley are a decent enough company, very surprised you cant get HT8/80/30 locally tho. As others have said C is crap

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorbuthappy View Post
    I use HT 8/80/30 against hedges and HT 8/80/22 in the open. Got fed up with lambs getting stuck in the 15.
    +1

    HT allows fewer posts to rot off & replace too, so saving up to 50% on posts. A no-brainer IMO, but still plenty only use the C(rap) stuff for some reason.

  15. #15

    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGSP View Post
    What nobody has said so far, and is certainly true in many places, is that C8-80-15 is most often 20% or more cheaper than the same length of any other mesh fencing.
    HT8:80:22 and HT8:80:30 are usually cheaper than C8:80:15 for the simple reason that there is less wire in them so they dont weigh as much.

    Go direct to the manufacturer if doing a decent amount and get it delivered direct to you on a pallet. You would be surprised how much of a margin some of the merchants are making!

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    100% I should imagine. At least. We have done a lot of fencing this year and found that fencing is going downhill. Even on a dead straight run you have to go along afterwards and tweak up individual wires. Not cheap stuff either. Mid market.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    +1

    HT allows fewer posts to rot off & replace too, so saving up to 50% on posts. A no-brainer IMO, but still plenty only use the C(rap) stuff for some reason.
    I thought HT was for those who can't manage to erect a decent fence with C

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by uktimjones View Post
    I thought HT was for those who can't manage to erect a decent fence with C
    that would be me then .....mind you sometimes i struggle with the ht

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I have very small fields with short and wiggly boundaries, and while I quite see the merits of HT wire, it's horrible stuff to use in this environment. I would definitely prefer to use C8-80-22 or C8-80-30 in preference to C8-80-15, but CWG used to charge nearly 50% more for the first two, which is a lot. Maybe Mole valley do a better deal now, but wouldn't you know it? I haven't had to replace or install any new fences for nearly 15 years.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by RGSP View Post
    I have very small fields with short and wiggly boundaries, and while I quite see the merits of HT wire, it's horrible stuff to use in this environment. I would definitely prefer to use C8-80-22 or C8-80-30 in preference to C8-80-15, but CWG used to charge nearly 50% more for the first two, which is a lot. Maybe Mole valley do a better deal now, but wouldn't you know it? I haven't had to replace or install any new fences for nearly 15 years.
    That's an interesting point. Although none of our fields are over 5 acre, the first lot of fencing I have to do has plenty of nice straight runs in it, but then I have two fields to do that border a stream, and the border swaps sides all the way down. Going to need plenty of posts anyway so maybe mild would be better there, but as said either 8/80/22 or 8/80/30.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I use a fair bit of c7-100-15 as it fits the concrete posts we have around the place. Use one strand of barb that runs along the top of the netting. Very few stuck heads.

    I would use it loads more if it was HT, 30cm spacings and in 100m or longer lengths but unfortunately is none of that.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by uktimjones View Post
    I thought HT was for those who can't manage to erect a decent fence with C
    I was only wondering the other day, where you'd got to Tim. I hadn't seen you post in ages.

    Personally, I find mild steel wire much easier to work with, so you could certainly put up a 'decent fence' with more ease. However, it wouldn't maintain tension for as long, as mild steel wire stretches, and would require almost double the number of stakes. Done a bit of both today, purely because I hate to waste the C(rap) wire that I have removed from sections that need fencing properly and reliably.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    We sell C8/80/15 50m at 30.81 at the pallet rate, 32.05 for a single roll. It's British made stuff, too.

    We are struggling to find anything more competitive that is of a decent construction (i.e. don't want to sell foreign rubbish if we can help it)., so we are considering a C8/80/30. By the look of the comments above, it is being more widely used than I thought.

    Is it really necessary to carry it in HT or will mild steel be good enough. We could do a MS C8/80/30 at around 23.50 per roll. Surely that would attract some interest?

    Interesting thread - good point about the saving on post spacings, too.

    LT.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorbuthappy View Post
    I use HT 8/80/30 against hedges and HT 8/80/22 in the open. Got fed up with lambs getting stuck in the 15.
    Almost +1

    We can't use HT here as we don't have enough depth usually to get the posts secure enough so we use C8/80/22 or C8/80/30
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I wish that ht8-80-30 had been more publicised before I bought 500m of the 15. Its a no brainer to minimise stuck sheep heads (they will still find a way, though) and makes economic sense. I have failed to check country of manufacture though. Must find a list.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by _JH_ View Post
    Thanks for all the replies. As I thought, everyone uses it because everyone uses it.

    Local ag stores only seem to sell C8/80/15 so I haven't been able to price HT, or 8/80/30 size, are there any other online places apart from MVF? What are they like to deal with?

    To me the increased post spacing for HT seems a no brainer, unsure why nobody local stocks it.

    Tornado and Uniwire seem to do all sorts of sizes, might call them for some advice tomorrow.
    don't waste your money on uniwire its rubbish

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by spitfire View Post
    don't waste your money on uniwire its rubbish
    +1 Very difficult to join and tension. It used to be made just down the road from here. You could measure the fence and they'd make a roll to suit.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    I have tended to stick to HT 8/80/15 rather than the wider spacings because ,yes, on level runs the wider wires are fine - but on undulating runs it looks horrible - the closer spaced vertical wires on the HT 8/80/15 mean the horizontals stay parallel on changes of direction - just looks better to me. Got a serious amount to do this spring so will probably be buying several pallet loads of HT 8/80/22.
    Mild steel wire will sag in a few years so wont touch it. Had bad experiences with Rylock with broken wires in middle of roll and 2nd, 3rd or 4th horizontals remaining untensioned (wavy) even after being properly tensioned .
    Tornado is my wire of choice - when you have several rolls to unwind each day you appreciate just how easy it is to unroll and work with and how much time it saves you each day - time is money.

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    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by ploughman1963 View Post
    I have tended to stick to HT 8/80/15 rather than the wider spacings because ,yes, on level runs the wider wires are fine - but on undulating runs it looks horrible - the closer spaced vertical wires on the HT 8/80/15 mean the horizontals stay parallel on changes of direction - just looks better to me. Got a serious amount to do this spring so will probably be buying several pallet loads of HT 8/80/22.
    Mild steel wire will sag in a few years so wont touch it. Had bad experiences with Rylock with broken wires in middle of roll and 2nd, 3rd or 4th horizontals remaining untensioned (wavy) even after being properly tensioned .
    Tornado is my wire of choice - when you have several rolls to unwind each day you appreciate just how easy it is to unroll and work with and how much time it saves you each day - time is money.
    TFM has a direct account with Tornado, if you want a price, Ploughman. We've got some creosoted posts in stock now as well!
    Mark.

  30. #30

    Re: Why does everyone use 8/80/15 stock fence?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    I was only wondering the other day, where you'd got to Tim. I hadn't seen you post in ages.

    Personally, I find mild steel wire much easier to work with, so you could certainly put up a 'decent fence' with more ease. However, it wouldn't maintain tension for as long, as mild steel wire stretches, and would require almost double the number of stakes. Done a bit of both today, purely because I hate to waste the C(rap) wire that I have removed from sections that need fencing properly and reliably.

    Not quite sure I'm bold enough to use half as many stakes, especially with undulating ground. We currently do 3.5 paces for C grade and 5 paces for HT. How about others?

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