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Thread: Milk without tmr

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Milk without tmr

    Just wondering if many on here are doing well without tmr or oopf calving all year round,

    Having recently started milking on my own after dad retired a few years ago, I'm building the cow numbers up again and haven't started with the wagon. I'm feeding early 1st cut round bales in the passage which works well and can set in enough bales to do 2 days with very little pushing over.

    What would others be feeding in the parlor to yield?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    one thing i would ask is do you have enough good quality silage to do you the whole winter?as it's better to go from bad to good as good to badi don't have oopf or tmr,feed about 6kilo's twice daily and some molasses on top of the silage if quality is poor,need to watch for stomach up sets if feeding alot in 2 sittings

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    We are doing about 7500litres off a 1.5t of cake and a simple self feed system. Didnt intend doing at first but after putting in a new parlour and collecting yard decided to run cows past silage pits to milk. We tried self feeding as a tempory measure but it worked so well we never stopped. Been doing it now for 3 years and cows seem to love it plus its cheap and very very easy. We lucky though having 2 pits side by side to give enough feed space for the cows to eat.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    We currently use TMR but i am hoping to install a new milking parlour and include parlour feeders in it. We are only yielding around 7500 and i really question TMR at this level as it is costly having a tractor and wagon tied up on it, costly to mix up and end up over and under feeding cows.

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by everything red View Post
    one thing i would ask is do you have enough good quality silage to do you the whole winter?as it's better to go from bad to good as good to badi don't have oopf or tmr,feed about 6kilo's twice daily and some molasses on top of the silage if quality is poor,need to watch for stomach up sets if feeding alot in 2 sittings
    I will be okay for top quality silage with what cows I have milking atm, tho I do intend buying a few fresh callers now shortly to keep the milk up through the winter. was intending to fall back on some haylage early spring that wouldn't be as good quality.

    What kind of yield do you have with the 12kg's per day?

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by boyo View Post
    We are doing about 7500litres off a 1.5t of cake and a simple self feed system. Didnt intend doing at first but after putting in a new parlour and collecting yard decided to run cows past silage pits to milk. We tried self feeding as a tempory measure but it worked so well we never stopped. Been doing it now for 3 years and cows seem to love it plus its cheap and very very easy. We lucky though having 2 pits side by side to give enough feed space for the cows to eat.
    Sounds a very good simple system, I have a long way to go to get to that yield from so little cake but I'm working on it.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by bigw View Post
    We currently use TMR but i am hoping to install a new milking parlour and include parlour feeders in it. We are only yielding around 7500 and i really question TMR at this level as it is costly having a tractor and wagon tied up on it, costly to mix up and end up over and under feeding cows.
    Its the under / over feeding that I am trying to avoid, most my cows are in their first lactation, with some 2nd but there is a big range in yields.

    I use 1kg for 3l produced as a guide as to what too feed, how are others feeding according to the yield?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullyvernon View Post
    Its the under / over feeding that I am trying to avoid, most my cows are in their first lactation, with some 2nd but there is a big range in yields.

    I use 1kg for 3l produced as a guide as to what too feed, how are others feeding according to the yield?
    Get your feed firm to test silage and results will show how much you need to feed for yield.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by boyo View Post
    We are doing about 7500litres off a 1.5t of cake and a simple self feed system. Didnt intend doing at first but after putting in a new parlour and collecting yard decided to run cows past silage pits to milk. We tried self feeding as a tempory measure but it worked so well we never stopped. Been doing it now for 3 years and cows seem to love it plus its cheap and very very easy. We lucky though having 2 pits side by side to give enough feed space for the cows to eat.
    This is what i would like to eventually do, we used to do it 30 years ago!! Do you have to cut much of the silage face to keep it tidy and what like is watse levels? Also how much face space do you allow per head?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    We feed silage in passage and nuts through parlour. Currently set at 3kg per cow and those over 16l get 0.45kg per litre

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by causeway cowboy View Post
    We feed silage in passage and nuts through parlour. Currently set at 3kg per cow and those over 16l get 0.45kg per litre
    sorry, is that per day, or per milking?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullyvernon View Post
    sorry, is that per day, or per milking?
    per day.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by causeway cowboy View Post
    We feed silage in passage and nuts through parlour. Currently set at 3kg per cow and those over 16l get 0.45kg per litre
    With top quality silage you should get more than 16l from 3kg meal, definitely a simple system and fine for all but the highest yields.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    We feed silage in passage and nuts through parlour and oopfs which we started using a year ago. Had heifers last winter peak at 45 l/day with a few doing 10000l in their 1st lactation. No intention of feeding a tmr as I just see it as extra work and more machinery to maintain and run, not to mention the initial purchase of a feeder wagon and tractor (IMO)

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by yin ewe View Post
    We feed silage in passage and nuts through parlour and oopfs which we started using a year ago. Had heifers last winter peak at 45 l/day with a few doing 10000l in their 1st lactation. No intention of feeding a tmr as I just see it as extra work and more machinery to maintain and run, not to mention the initial purchase of a feeder wagon and tractor (IMO)
    Its great you can achieve these figures without TMR but with TMR you have the mix available all the time which increases intake and keeps the stomach in working order.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by jay View Post
    With top quality silage you should get more than 16l from 3kg meal, definitely a simple system and fine for all but the highest yields.
    Yeah I know we should and could last year silage was M+20 but we had lot of cows lost condition because of bad year and the change over from old parlour also it helped to extend silage a bit. Havent got this years silage results yet. But cows are in tonight on bales.


    Research in the south said most efficient way to feed cows was block silage and meal thru parlour!

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Tullyvernon View Post
    I will be okay for top quality silage with what cows I have milking atm, tho I do intend buying a few fresh callers now shortly to keep the milk up through the winter. was intending to fall back on some haylage early spring that wouldn't be as good quality.

    What kind of yield do you have with the 12kg's per day?
    last winter with heifers and cows i averaged 35l/cow all winter and when i cut them back to half at grass they fell slightly,yearly about 7500lts/cow. who has cows in tonight?i have,not much later than last year

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    Senior Member Tullyvernon's Avatar
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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Mine are in tonight, tho have been all summer

    But today they hadn't much interest in going out, they are grazing the field next to the farm so im just letting them come in and out as they please.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Ours not out at night all summer, thankfully we haven't used any first cut yet as we have round aled fields that have got ahead of the cows.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by everything red View Post
    last winter with heifers and cows i averaged 35l/cow all winter and when i cut them back to half at grass they fell slightly,yearly about 7500lts/cow. who has cows in tonight?i have,not much later than last year
    If you were doing 35l cow would your average be over 10,000 l not 7500l or am i missing something?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew830 View Post
    If you were doing 35l cow would your average be over 10,000 l not 7500l or am i missing something?
    they must have fell back a awful lot when they went to grass

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by bigw View Post
    This is what i would like to eventually do, we used to do it 30 years ago!! Do you have to cut much of the silage face to keep it tidy and what like is watse levels? Also how much face space do you allow per head?
    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you big w. Silage is only clamped to 6ft max, so that cows can reach everything but like I said we were lucky our pits were big enough. If you need to go higher them you will need to take the top off as they will undermine it and it will touch wire and fall. A rule of thumb was to allow 6inchs per cow assuming that they all have 24hr access and dont spend too long away being milked or locked back. I was concerned about running fresh calvers and low yielders together and felt that fresh calvers may not get enough feed but all seems good and we no longer have the yield drop when cows change groups.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancher View Post
    Its great you can achieve these figures without TMR but with TMR you have the mix available all the time which increases intake and keeps the stomach in working order.
    Agree, also you can feed some of the parlour cake through the wagon, in effect and so reduce loading the guts during the milkings so much.

    TMR is only as good as the way it is used, can't have it too potent or you overfeed staler cows, though I guess you bring them back in the parlour.

    All extra work and expense though. Don't see much point in having a wagon if all you do is feed grass silage.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Agree, also you can feed some of the parlour cake through the wagon, in effect and so reduce loading the guts during the milkings so much.

    TMR is only as good as the way it is used, can't have it too potent or you overfeed staler cows, though I guess you bring them back in the parlour.

    All extra work and expense though. Don't see much point in having a wagon if all you do is feed grass silage.
    We are feeding close to 2 tonne /cow and dont have parlour feeders all feed goes through the wagon but point taken if we had gone for parlour feeders we would nt have the wagon but at these rates of feed the TMR keeps the stomachs in better order. I.M.O.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rancher View Post
    We are feeding close to 2 tonne /cow and dont have parlour feeders all feed goes through the wagon but point taken if we had gone for parlour feeders we would nt have the wagon but at these rates of feed the TMR keeps the stomachs in better order. I.M.O.
    That is interesting, I guess as with many things there is no right answer, just whatever works best for the man and beasts concerned.

    For me the new challenge is finding out if I can wean people off the wagon over the summer, and make better use of grazed grass. Next year I have a guy who is going to try exactly this. He is quietly teaching me his secrets and it shows in his feed rate/litre.

    Trouble is it all involves work and ingenuity.

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    That is interesting, I guess as with many things there is no right answer, just whatever works best for the man and beasts concerned.

    For me the new challenge is finding out if I can wean people off the wagon over the summer, and make better use of grazed grass. Next year I have a guy who is going to try exactly this. He is quietly teaching me his secrets and it shows in his feed rate/litre.

    Trouble is it all involves work and ingenuity.
    Please share some of these secrets

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Tully, just getting round to reading the thread now! What about putting in alternate bales of 1st cut and haylage? Let the girls mix their own ration!! One advantage of using round bags, that way you can save some of the good stuff back untill late winter/early spring (presuming we get an early spring next year!!) If it's like this year you could be glad of some extra 1st cut left over. If you find it doesn't work go back to what you're doing now.

    If you have enough feed space (I'm presuming you still do have!) what about a mid-day feed of a kilo or two of some kind of blend?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    Tully, just getting round to reading the thread now! What about putting in alternate bales of 1st cut and haylage? Let the girls mix their own ration!!
    We tried this last year with 1st and 2nd cut- alternate in the feed passage. They flippin ate the 1st cut and we had to almost hunger them to get them to eat the 2nd cut which wasn't a good situation , so we started tipping it out at the silo face and mixing it with the shear gra along with some silage replacer meal, then put it into the cows. It was a crude mix although it was all eaten up, not sure if it would work with round ales as they would e harder to mix in this way?

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    Tully, just getting round to reading the thread now! What about putting in alternate bales of 1st cut and haylage? Let the girls mix their own ration!! One advantage of using round bags, that way you can save some of the good stuff back untill late winter/early spring (presuming we get an early spring next year!!) If it's like this year you could be glad of some extra 1st cut left over. If you find it doesn't work go back to what you're doing now.

    If you have enough feed space (I'm presuming you still do have!) what about a mid-day feed of a kilo or two of some kind of blend?
    I did try putting some 1st cut and haylage in the passage, and as yin ewe said, they just eat the first cut and leave the haylage last, which meant they were left last night with only haylage as I wanted it eat up, I should be ok for first cut if I start now any time provided there is a half decent spring..........

    I might go back to putting 1kg 20/20 blend from Fane Valley on top of the silage as a wee boost in between milking, if it helps keep the stomach's right. I have 3' per cow feed space so should be ok this year

    Quote Originally Posted by yin ewe View Post
    We tried this last year with 1st and 2nd cut- alternate in the feed passage. They flippin ate the 1st cut and we had to almost hunger them to get them to eat the 2nd cut which wasn't a good situation , so we started tipping it out at the silo face and mixing it with the shear grab along with some silage replacer meal, then put it into the cows. It was a crude mix although it was all eaten up, not sure if it would work with round ales as they would e harder to mix in this way?
    The 1st cut would be no problem mixing as it was very well chopped, but the haylage is longer and would be a pain, If I was going down that route I will have to get the wagon out from hibernation!!

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    Re: Milk without tmr

    Quote Originally Posted by yin ewe View Post
    We tried this last year with 1st and 2nd cut- alternate in the feed passage. They flippin ate the 1st cut and we had to almost hunger them to get them to eat the 2nd cut which wasn't a good situation , so we started tipping it out at the silo face and mixing it with the shear gra along with some silage replacer meal, then put it into the cows. It was a crude mix although it was all eaten up, not sure if it would work with round ales as they would e harder to mix in this way?
    as you said earlier your cows and heifers were milking well,why not buy them a wagon.it works out cheap it the long run. the depreciation in our wagon works out at 600/year,4/cow=1.1p/cow/day, cheap or what

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