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Thread: Luck money

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    Luck money

    Went to Bakewell market last week & bought a couple of pens of shearlings. Sellers gave me a fiver & a tenner for luck. My townie friend who was with me was puzzled & wanted to know why sellers give money back. I found I couldn't explain it very well. Does anyone know how this started or when? I assume it's just an old tradition/supperstion, & happens all over the country. Do other countries do this? Like to hear your thoughts.

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheeplad View Post
    Went to Bakewell market last week & bought a couple of pens of shearlings. Sellers gave me a fiver & a tenner for luck. My townie friend who was with me was puzzled & wanted to know why sellers give money back. I found I couldn't explain it very well. Does anyone know how this started or when? I assume it's just an old tradition/supperstion, & happens all over the country. Do other countries do this? Like to hear your thoughts.
    It happens in Wales. Anything from a couple of quid to a tenner. No idea where it started. Bit dated now perhaps ??
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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    If I was selling something I'd give luck money. Buying I'd like it but not expect it. At auctions I wouldn't entertain it.

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    Re: Luck money

    we call it "a luck penny" can be from 2 up depending on the price of the deal, usually capped at 20 or there abouts

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    Senior Member wellington53's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheeplad View Post
    Went to Bakewell market last week & bought a couple of pens of shearlings. Sellers gave me a fiver & a tenner for luck. My townie friend who was with me was puzzled & wanted to know why sellers give money back. I found I couldn't explain it very well. Does anyone know how this started or when? I assume it's just an old tradition/supperstion, & happens all over the country. Do other countries do this? Like to hear your thoughts.
    Doesn't happen here but...back when we were farming in Lincs all the local markets did this, most are gone now I believe.

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    Re: Luck money

    Very common in Ireland 5 to 20 for any decent ram. Never given on ewes though. Is it common to give luck for ewes?

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    Re: Luck money

    Luck should be given on all breeding sheep rams or ewes usually 5 or 20 if a ram makes a gd price

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheeplad View Post
    Went to Bakewell market last week & bought a couple of pens of shearlings. Sellers gave me a fiver & a tenner for luck. My townie friend who was with me was puzzled & wanted to know why sellers give money back. I found I couldn't explain it very well. Does anyone know how this started or when? I assume it's just an old tradition/supperstion, & happens all over the country. Do other countries do this? Like to hear your thoughts.
    Common here, especially among the older folks. Maybe not if you buy a small number of sheep or something - more for big purchases. Not just livestock either, guy we bought an old tractor from gave us a "luck penny" of a tenner. (It's usually a tenner.) Not just private sales. Bought one cow from a batch of a dozen or so put through the ring one at a time, at Oban mart last autumn. After the sale the guy who'd sold them all was running about with a wad of cash looking for all the people to make sure everyone had had their money.

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    Senior Member andybk's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    as i see it , it was usually the shepherd or agent from some estate or another actually buying the sheep/ ram in years gone by , the landlord actually paying for them , and this was a "drink or tip " for the agent for buying your stock hoping he will remember next year and push the value up a little through the ring , about 1 per hundred maybe more depending who it is doing the buying .and value of the trade .

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheeplad View Post
    Went to Bakewell market last week & bought a couple of pens of shearlings. Sellers gave me a fiver & a tenner for luck. My townie friend who was with me was puzzled & wanted to know why sellers give money back. I found I couldn't explain it very well. Does anyone know how this started or when? I assume it's just an old tradition/supperstion, & happens all over the country. Do other countries do this? Like to hear your thoughts.
    Luck Money is what it says luck, good fortune or a guarantee that the goods/animals have been sold in good faith and if you like a bond given by the seller that they are genuine. Such custom extends to putting silver into a newborn childs hand to give 'luck' to the giver and luck/fortune to the child.
    Was beginning to be abused esp. at Lanark dairy sales where buyers would fault cattle if not enough given. Traditionally a token amount, couple of quid.
    Its also a good way of breaking the ice with buyers so hopefully they will buy more stock in the future.

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    Re: Luck money

    Problem is that increasingly people bring it in to the deal to negotiate the price down, "Well at that price I'll need twenty pound for luck" and such like.

    Which is completely missing the point, it's a gesture of good will and wishing the person good luck with their purchase if they've been straight and decent with you, not about the monetary value at all. Somebody hassling me for a luck penny pretty much ensures they won't get one, not in the true sense anyway because obviously they just don't get the idea of what it's about and it'd be lost on them anyway.

    Sold a car to a townie once and after the deal had been done and because he'd been pretty straight and fair, I took a pound coin out of my pocket, spat on it (not actually of-course, just the noise and motion) and reached my hand out till him. He was totally mystified what was going on so I had to explain the entire process to him and it's significance, but he took it on-board and was actually very impressed with it as a gesture of goodwill from me towards him, which is what it's all about.

    Probably a dying tradition, but definitely shouldn't be!

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Problem is that increasingly people bring it in to the deal to negotiate the price down, "Well at that price I'll need twenty pound for luck" and such like.

    Which is completely missing the point, it's a gesture of good will and wishing the person good luck with their purchase if they've been straight and decent with you, not about the monetary value at all. Somebody hassling me for a luck penny pretty much ensures they won't get one, not in the true sense anyway because obviously they just don't get the idea of what it's about and it'd be lost on them anyway.

    Sold a car to a townie once and after the deal had been done and because he'd been pretty straight and fair, I took a pound coin out of my pocket, spat on it (not actually of-course, just the noise and motion) and reached my hand out till him. He was totally mystified what was going on so I had to explain the entire process to him and it's significance, but he took it on-board and was actually very impressed with it as a gesture of goodwill from me towards him, which is what it's all about.

    Probably a dying tradition, but definitely shouldn't be!
    If a buyer asks for luck money then I don't give them f*** all ! It's a bloody cheek. As said above it's a good will gesture that should be appreciated but not expected. I will always give a bit as long as I'm not asked for it though.
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    Re: Luck money

    I have had it the other way round at a breeding sheep sale a couple of weeks ago, the seller collared me and said he would give me 10% back as luck. Don't think I would be the only one but it sure generated a bit of competition . Too rich for me in the end but he probably got his 10% back and more !

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    Re: Luck money

    If it's genuine then ok but from what I have seen I don't really agree with it.
    It is given regularly at livestock sales round here. But basically it has nothing to do with luck. It's just an encouraging gesture to get people to pay more money for their livestock. The luck money usually doesn't get offered till the livestock reach a certain price.
    Perhaps it's sometimes genuine luck money but very rarely.

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    Re: Luck money

    Years ago, at my first ever mart, I sold a couple of cows. Afterwards the bloke who bought them came up to me and asked me for luck. I said good luck and shook his hand . I didn't know I was supposed to give him some money - never have understood it myself.

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    Re: Luck money

    If an amount of money is brought in to the deal as either "luck money" or a "luck penny" then it's actually neither as it simply becomes part of the deal. The luck penny is outside of the deal agreed, it's a unilateral gesture on the part of the seller, mentioned in any other respect is just disrespectful of the concept.

    Similarly is the buyer asking for one (as described above!).

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    Re: Luck money

    I wonder how HMRC regard luck money?

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    I wonder how HMRC regard luck money?
    Good question, especially if it appears on your statement when selling.
    I treat it as a cash withdrawal through the accounts.

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    I wonder how HMRC regard luck money?
    As income, must be declared, even if the seller does not deduct it from his income, so pays tax on it.

    used to be very popular with dealers. They could show a future buyer how much they had paid for an animal, but of course it was not the price.
    the practice is definitely not restricted to agriculture, in many industries it is called bribery
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    Re: Luck money

    Thanks for all the replies. When I take fatstock to market I don't give luck (mainly because I don't stay with them) but if I'm selling store cattle or lambs I go in the box with the auctioneer. Buyers like to see your face & if you wave a bit of luck about it's an incentive. Some of the dealers who buy a lot must fill their pockets.

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    Re: Luck money

    We give a 1 a head luck when selling lambs pushes prices up by about 3 a head. All these dealer work on a commission based system so if u give them luck they can give u a better price. Got friend who buys a lot of cattle and says if he doesn't get luck he won't even bid on that mans cattle again follows suit with all the dealers.

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordvue View Post
    We give a 1 a head luck when selling lambs pushes prices up by about 3 a head. All these dealer work on a commission based system so if u give them luck they can give u a better price. Got friend who buys a lot of cattle and says if he doesn't get luck he won't even bid on that mans cattle again follows suit with all the dealers.
    That just sums it up in a lot of cases. It's not luck money. It's bribery!

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    Re: Luck money

    Still adds extra value especially when take 40 a time in its well over 100 more

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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    I wonder how HMRC regard luck money?
    About 15 to 20 years ago there was quite a high profile case between HMRC and Lancaster Auction Mart.
    HMRC won and the auction mart had to give details of all the cash advances to sellers .
    It is treated as your income and sellers would need to pay tax on that amount.

    As vendors of newly calved dairy cows and heifers at auction, we regularly pay luck of 5%, 100 on a 2000 cow.
    I don't agree with the idea , but we don't want to loose bidders/buyers.

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    Senior Member Gareth Bryson's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    If you go to Stirling next week for the bull sales I can almost guarantee that some of the Irish sellers will start handing 20 notes to the auctioneer as luck to the eventual purchaser. It sometimes gets the bidders going again when the bidding starts to slow for their bull. then when the bidding slows again they will hand more 20 notes to the auctioneer. I have seen nearly 100 given as a luckpenny in this manner.
    In God we trust. ALL others pay CASH!!!!!

  26. #26
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    Re: Luck money

    its called bribery, it happens all the time in our market, you see the arse lickers chucking tenner's around and buying beer in the pub, its all good for them, but the trouble is the bloody buyers expect it all the time now off everyone, if you don't, they won't bid.
    there should be a law against it.
    the market is a very clicky place and if you watch closely you will see the main men milling around together, watch the back pockets that's all I can say.
    I'm sure there will be people who don't agree with me and that's fair enough, but I won't pay it just to get an extra few quid.
    can you imagine going into a shop and paying luck, no way, so why should it be allowed in the stock market?
    the chap said before that if he bribes the buyer he gets 3 a head more, so you little chap who doesn't loses money because he hasn't bribed anyone, c'mon that ain't fair is it.
    I'd just like to add that if a buyer has bought a few hundred lambs, we are talking about a lot of money here not chicken feed.
    our market sells maybe upwards of 1000 lambs a week and there may be only 2 or 3 buyers, so there is roughly a 1000 quid in one day! that's at only 10 a pen and we all know its a lot more than that.
    This mounts up to a hell of a lot of dosh in a week if a buyer goes to a market most days, which they do.
    an accepted scandal that has been let go on too long, its who you know and bribe, gets the best price at the market!

  27. #27
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    Re: Luck money

    5% On new Calved Cows

    5 On Weaned BB Calves

    3 On Weaned Angus X

    1 On B+W Calves.

    The Calf luck varies depending on the trade i have, and lets face it if your paying over 400 for a 8wk old bb calf you need all the luck in the world.

    But the 5% on Dairy is part of the deal before its sold, its an unspoken promise in my mind and to not hand over the luck to me is stealing, although i dont especially like it sometime over 120 seems daft.

    Auctions like it because they commision on the extra bit, it keeps the averages high and the dealers like it obviously tax free income.

    Never give out luck on sales from home although often wondered if i should, problem would be consistency since we rarley have cash at home.

    O and another thought if you get given a heep of luck you wernt expecting i often wonder if you been outdone because the vendor is so happy he will give you some back? Have you been outsmarted?

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    Re: Luck money

    Still not got the point about dealers they are on commission based so you are a little silly not to give them luck as they get an average commission out of everything they buy so if they get abit tax free off you YOU WILL GET THAT BIT MORE MONEY MAKES SENSE REALY IM ALL FOR MAKIN MORE MONEY EVEN IF IT IS CRUCKED. END OF THE DAY IT LOOKS BETTER ON MY BOOKS WITH AVERAGE PRICE HIGHER. IT'S A WIN SITUATION FOR EVERYBODY
    I GET MORE MONEY FOR STOCK
    DEALER GETS HIS BIT MORE
    AND AUCTION GETS MORE COMMISSION
    SO WE ALL WIN.

  29. #29
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    Re: Luck money

    I beg to differ, you might win, but the other people who don't bribe lose out. to call it luck makes it sound better, but it is a bribe.
    I'm not saying that the dealers particularly like it, they don't have a lot of choice. money gets shoved in their hands by someone just before the pen goes, or afterwards, what do they do.
    its in plain sight! god knows what the public think?
    surely it would be fair if everyone stopped doing it tomorrow and we all had the same price, mind you I suppose there would be someone a bit greedy wanting more than the rest and try to bribe on the side.

    I just wonder if any dealer will say how much they pick up on an average day in luck, it would be interesting.

  30. #30
    Senior Member crofteress's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    I sometimes get luck and sometimes not, but Id always give luck if asked if its going for breeding, its good to be on good terms with a buyer incase you want to go back and buy a calf again, and sometimes Ill be given luck and other times not, my neighbour came round this morning with a tenner luck as Id bought one of his at the sale, I dont mind getting it and dont mind giving it but not to big dealers

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