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Thread: Luck money

  1. #31
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    I wonder how much the luck penny is on some off these pedigree animals that so called make tens of thousands of pounds, half the selling price i shouldnt wonder

  2. #32
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    I wonder how much the luck penny is on some off these pedigree animals that so called make tens of thousands of pounds, half the selling price i shouldnt wonder
    Pedigree sales are a farce, always have been.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  3. #33
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    Re: Luck money

    have to give luck in a prime cattle auction up here but then your buyers are mostly dealers or commission men, when buying cattle or sheep for own business how they ultimately perform matters more than if I get some luck or not

  4. #34
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    Re: Luck money

    Never happen in Oz,
    Have heard of it in your land but not here
    SC
    Oz

  5. #35
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Nordvue View Post
    IT'S A WIN SITUATION FOR EVERYBODY
    No, the next guy in the chain loses because he has to pay the dealer more for the stock to cover the 'extra' he paid you (if that really is the case)

    I give 1/head on fat cattle. Always have and it'll never be any more, even when they get to 2k. Many years ago a moaning old git of a butcher asked for 2 "because it's Christmas". I said "Bah, humbug!" and took the 1 back

    Occasionally I don't wait to see them sold, so the buyers don't get any luck, and I don't think it makes a blind bit of difference. You don't need bribery if your stock are good.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Gareth Bryson's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by DBJ View Post
    Pedigree sales are a farce, always have been.


    How do you figure???
    In God we trust. ALL others pay CASH!!!!!

  7. #37
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth Bryson View Post
    How do you figure???
    I'll buy yours for an inflated price and then you can buy one of mine next year. This nonsense keeps the trade artificially high and if some innocent poor sod is looking to buy he has to bid against the 'inner circle'.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  8. #38
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by DBJ View Post
    I'll buy yours for an inflated price and then you can buy one of mine next year. This nonsense keeps the trade artificially high and if some innocent poor sod is looking to buy he has to bid against the 'inner circle'.
    You really think that happens D ?

    And there was me thinking it was all down the line

  9. #39
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    Re: Luck money

    I had someone come and buy a machine I was selling.
    He bartered the price down a bit. I load him up then he asks for luck money!
    i politely sent him on his way!

  10. #40
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    Re: Luck money

    I still don't understand this luck money rubbish.
    I sell you something and then you want some money from me for buying it? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    If it's a quid for genuine luck, OK, if you want to give it, but a percentage of the selling price? So how much should I have got in luck money when I bought this farm? Nothing - my point exactly.

  11. #41
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    Re: Luck money

    Luck money helped in the demise of markets around here. Fatstock mostly.
    What happened was that commission buyers did not buy if no luck.
    What was worse was that eventually the abbatoirs always used commission buyers so that eventually you finished up with maybe only one or two buyers who fixed their prices anyway.

    Sad really, as the old fashioned auction market was a good way of arriving at a price.

    Jack Caley

  12. #42
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    You really think that happens D ?

    And there was me thinking it was all down the line
    Definitely happens in the Welsh Mountain tup sales. I'm pretty sure it happens elsewhere too. Also heard lots of stories of expensive tups being infertile but through some miracle the bloody tup was insured, so happy faces all round.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

  13. #43
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    No, the next guy in the chain loses because he has to pay the dealer more for the stock to cover the 'extra' he paid you (if that really is the case)

    .
    No, dealers who buy stock for their clients receive a bit of luck money from the vendors.

  14. #44
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    Re: Luck money

    Yes, thank you. After 23 years selling in markets I know how luck money works. I was referring to Nordvue's opinion he gets paid more for his stock because he pays the dealer luck money.

  15. #45
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    We are starting to miss the point Luck Money was never meant to be a financial incentive, I have never made it so, but rather a token gesture of good will and luck towards the buyer. Silly buggers both buyers and sellers have abused it but then you can always tell them to f** * off. Quality will always sell.

  16. #46
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    We are starting to miss the point Luck Money was never meant to be a financial incentive, I have never made it so, but rather a token gesture of good will and luck towards the buyer. Silly buggers both buyers and sellers have abused it but then you can always tell them to f** * off. Quality will always sell.
    Yea a bit off luck when something has sold well or someone has bought a fare few off your animals is ok but this expecting and asking for it is going to far

    Dad use to tell about someone that would stick pound notes on the cow as it went round the ring

  17. #47
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    Re: Luck money

    So now I understand the quid for luck business, fair enough.

    What I can't fathom is giving luck money as a % of the sale price. You sell your cow for 2000 and give 100 Luck Money (5%), so you've actually sold it for 1900 but are still paying commission on 2000 and you're accounts show the sale at 2000 not the 1900 you actually got. Some peoples SFP must be too big!

  18. #48
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    So now I understand the quid for luck business, fair enough.

    What I can't fathom is giving luck money as a % of the sale price. You sell your cow for 2000 and give 100 Luck Money (5%), so you've actually sold it for 1900 but are still paying commission on 2000 and you're accounts show the sale at 2000 not the 1900 you actually got. Some peoples SFP must be too big!
    Agreed. We can all be stupid but some just abuse the privilege!
    A pound is more than enough.

  19. #49
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Luck money is a combination of bribery, corruption and tax evasion. I never give it, on principle. But I mostly sell calves and barren cows. Doesn't stop our calves being in the top three price in the mart more often than not and top of the mart probably in one mart in three on average. That despite just unloading the calves and coming straight home every single time.

    If I was selling fatstock, I would probably have to be sucked in to the corruption and tax evasion [by dealers who fill their pockets with undeclared cash].
    The Duck 2015

  20. #50
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Luck money is a combination of bribery, corruption and tax evasion.


    Is that what a gift is well bugger roll on christmas

    What a load off tosh

  21. #51
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Luck money is a combination of bribery, corruption and tax evasion.


    Is that what a gift is well bugger roll on christmas

    What a load off tosh
    Simple, a gift at Christmas is not tied directly to a particular transaction. Luck money probably falls foul of the Bribery Act.

  22. #52
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    Simple, a gift at Christmas is not tied directly to a particular transaction. Luck money probably falls foul of the Bribery Act.
    Still a load of tosh

  23. #53
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    No, dealers who buy stock for their clients receive a bit of luck money from the vendors.
    Quote Originally Posted by MC130 View Post
    Yes, thank you. After 23 years selling in markets I know how luck money works. I was referring to Nordvue's opinion he gets paid more for his stock because he pays the dealer luck money.
    Sorry, I miss-read your post. And I'm sure your last point applies in some live fatstock marts.

  24. #54
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    So now I understand the quid for luck business, fair enough.

    What I can't fathom is giving luck money as a % of the sale price. You sell your cow for 2000 and give 100 Luck Money (5%), so you've actually sold it for 1900 but are still paying commission on 2000 and you're accounts show the sale at 2000 not the 1900 you actually got. Some peoples SFP must be too big!
    You would put the luck money in the accounts as 'market expenses'.

    Agreed, it has got a bit silly, but many estate shepherds & dealers do very well out of it. I knew of an estate shepherd that used to buy 700 NC Mule ewe lambs each year, and came home with several thousand in luck each year. A couple of buyers like that bidding on your pen, knowing he was going to have some cash in his back pocket and the bill paid by his employer, would push the price of the pen up. Same with some of the agents buying thousands of lambs up north, on behalf of customers in the Midlands.

  25. #55
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    Re: Luck money

    Not sure I'd want to have to justify my Luck Money "Market Expenses" to the Taxman if I got a random inspection. Bad enough trying to convince them that a waterproof coat is essential safety equipment. You'll need all the luck money in the world for that one!

  26. #56
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    Not sure I'd want to have to justify my Luck Money "Market Expenses" to the Taxman if I got a random inspection. Bad enough trying to convince them that a waterproof coat is essential safety equipment. You'll need all the luck money in the world for that one!
    That's what our accountant told us to do, several years ago. Apparently it is allowed by the revenue, but large amounts would raise suspicion no doubt.

  27. #57
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by topground View Post
    Simple, a gift at Christmas is not tied directly to a particular transaction. Luck money probably falls foul of the Bribery Act.
    If someone buys a pen of 100 lambs at 65, that's a bill for 6500.

    If I give him 10 for luck, he is hardly going to recognize it as a bribe or meaningful discount, but it is received gratefully in the knowledge that I appreciated him making a final bid and express the hope that the lambs will do well for him.

    And it won't do any harm when I next sell lambs, and he is there as a potential buyer. It's a fact of life that most buyers at auction know the sellers who slope off without so much as a thank you, never mind giving a bit of luck. And as a consequence are less likely to bid on their stock - and understandingly so.

    But it's the second last bidder who deserves as much appreciation.

  28. #58
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    But it's the second last bidder who deserves as much appreciation.
    Had a cull ewe buyer that hinted/asked me for luck a couple of times, after he'd failed to buy my ewes. I reckon he easily put 10/hd on a pen of 30 strong Charollais ewes, so didn't mind giving him a tenner. Shouldn't be necessary, but I don't mind spending a tenner to get 300 back, hence 'market expenses'.

  29. #59
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    Re: Luck money

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    If someone buys a pen of 100 lambs at 65, that's a bill for 6500.

    If I give him 10 for luck, he is hardly going to recognize it as a bribe or meaningful discount, but it is received gratefully in the knowledge that I appreciated him making a final bid and express the hope that the lambs will do well for him.

    And it won't do any harm when I next sell lambs, and he is there as a potential buyer. It's a fact of life that most buyers at auction know the sellers who slope off without so much as a thank you, never mind giving a bit of luck. And as a consequence are less likely to bid on their stock - and understandingly so.

    But it's the second last bidder who deserves as much appreciation.
    Thats very true, the under bidder is just as important as the buyer.

  30. #60
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    Re: Luck money

    maybe good for the briber, not for the chap with the next pen.
    perhaps the person with the next pen of lambs has to be in work for instance! no choice for them.

    next time I go to Tesco's I'll ask em for a bit of luck, I have a good idea what will happen and it involves the door.

    its a slippery slope, it starts with a quid or two, then a tenner, then 50, the next thing you know its expected. if you don't pay your lambs won't be bid on. sounds a bit suspect when its put like that doesn't it!


    I notice no buyers have put up how much money they make a week in luck yet, its gone quiet o so quiet

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