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Thread: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

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    neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    I have 100 acres with no buildings, I am trying to get permission for a livestock building. My neighbours have got together and have complained to the council about just about every aspect of the plans. They wrote to the council saying there was a badger sett nearby, the council made me pay for a professional ecological survey costing several hundred pounds only to be told they were rabbit holes not badger holes, something I had been saying all along. Now they have told the council there are great crested newts in a nearby pond, and the council are saying I have to pay for another survey. I am sure there are no newts, and even if there were any they would not be disturbed, do I really have to get this survey done? And then what happens when they tell the council of another rare plant or animal that they have found? I can forsee an endless round of expensive surveys to find non existent wildlife. This is seriously pissing me off.

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    Senior Member wellington53's Avatar
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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootneck View Post
    I have 100 acres with no buildings, I am trying to get permission for a livestock building. My neighbours have got together and have complained to the council about just about every aspect of the plans. They wrote to the council saying there was a badger sett nearby, the council made me pay for a professional ecological survey costing several hundred pounds only to be told they were rabbit holes not badger holes, something I had been saying all along. Now they have told the council there are great crested newts in a nearby pond, and the council are saying I have to pay for another survey. I am sure there are no newts, and even if there were any they would not be disturbed, do I really have to get this survey done? And then what happens when they tell the council of another rare plant or animal that they have found? I can forsee an endless round of expensive surveys to find non existent wildlife. This is seriously pissing me off.
    This is horrible, I wonder when you finally get up your building will it be safe from these t**ts?

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by wellington53 View Post
    This is horrible, I wonder when you finally get up your building will it be safe from these t**ts?
    You should apply for PP to build 200 starter homes. That will shut them up !
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by DBJ View Post
    You should apply for PP to build 200 starter homes. That will shut them up !
    permission for a halting site would do it faster

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Surely you can get a building under prior notification? Or is it bigger than that? What sort of building are you after? If it's a shed to winter cattle or store machinery, I don't see the problem. If it's a huge intensive pig unit, I would understand your neighbour's concerns. Have you been told that you need full planning for what you want?

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    I don't know if this will help you out, it might be wrong.
    a few large sheds were being put up on a farm we were at and the planning officer came by and we started chatting. we asked him how the planning was going and he said no problem at all, this was 200 by 100 shed roughly and another by the side.
    I asked him about the planning process involved and he told us we don't really need planning if the shed is bolted down and removable!
    this could be tosh, but it came out of the planning officers mouth I swear.
    planning is very different for agri buildings so could be worth looking into, hope it helps

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Do not know what building you need but some people find poly tunnels even more ugly and they do not need planning permission. Is that worth a threat?

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    tell them you are thinking of free range pigs, they will love your shed.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Bootneck. Send me a PM with your email address. I will be able to help you. But you must give more details, size of shed, what it is to be used for, which planning authority, etc. etc. As long as you have more than 5 hectares you have Permitted Development Rights for a building of up to 465 sq. mts. as long as you satisfy certain other criteria but there are things you need to know and the correct way to go about things.

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootneck View Post
    I have 100 acres with no buildings, I am trying to get permission for a livestock building. My neighbours have got together and have complained to the council about just about every aspect of the plans. They wrote to the council saying there was a badger sett nearby, the council made me pay for a professional ecological survey costing several hundred pounds only to be told they were rabbit holes not badger holes, something I had been saying all along. Now they have told the council there are great crested newts in a nearby pond, and the council are saying I have to pay for another survey. I am sure there are no newts, and even if there were any they would not be disturbed, do I really have to get this survey done? And then what happens when they tell the council of another rare plant or animal that they have found? I can forsee an endless round of expensive surveys to find non existent wildlife. This is seriously pissing me off.
    First of check the Planning Regs for your area. Should be on your local authority website. Then call and ask to speak to local planning officer. Ask him to provide written confirmation of what you require, better still if you get his/her name write/e-mail to them with your queries/questions follow up in a week later with phone call/e-mail (cc to your local councillor, contact him as well)
    I would have thought (and again little info to go on) that all you would need is a Prior Notification, submission of location plan and fee basically. But this will depend on how close you are to a dwelling and a public road. It may be worthwhile moving your shed position beyond this distance.
    You should not need to carry out an Environmental audit for every issue raised. Your advisor should do one covering everything and I suspect they are taking the piss as well.
    Finally it may be worth calling on your neighbours and asking them directly what their problem is, on no account lose the head stay calm and be Mr Reasonable. 90% of folk when confronted and when they actually know the person involved back down. However if they are unreasonable b's don't bother.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    I suppose it may depend on if you're in a National Park or AONB but I thought that if your holding is over a specific size 35 hectares? (less than 100 acres anyway) then you just write to the planning department informing them of your plans and after 30? days you are deemed to have consent - unless they right with a pretty good reason for not allowing it. Most of the shed manufacturers will do it for free cos it's so simple.

    It's now common to have to do a newt survey for anything within 300m of a pond that needs Planning Permission. Unfortunately, another 400 for a hippy to come out and poke around in the mud - still if he doesn't find any Great Crested Newts then no problems. You may as well get him to do a general ecological "walkover" survey (probably only another 50) and at least that way you'll get a report that you can send to Planning covering all the protected species - if he says there's no problems then the Planners will accept that regardless of your idiot neighbours. If you're thinking of a shed on unimproved pasture you'll probably have to do the walkover survey anyway. I'm surprised the Badger man didn't recommend doing the proper survey (to encompass all the protected species) but if he was from the local Badger Group he shouldn't have charged you more than his travel anyway.

    It's always worth ringing up the ecologist at your local council. They can be a bit precious about the little creatures but often give good general advice. When I did, I was told not to worry about a survey for a shed on semi-improved land even with a pond within 200m. She was well aware that I could have massacred thousands of newts and voles with the mower!

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    i'm probably wrong but i didn't think 'permitted development' covers livestock buildings? i'm sure there was a news story awhile back where a guy wanted a stable for his daughters pony....the neighbours blocked it ....so the guy sold the land to travellers.....apparently the neighbours were 'devastated'

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    We had the same trouble 5 years back, so got it about that we were going to sell to the pikeys. The objections stopped.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    If they don't want you farming it, get it sold to the gypsies

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    I suppose it may depend on if you're in a National Park or AONB but I thought that if your holding is over a specific size 35 hectares? (less than 100 acres anyway) then you just write to the planning department informing them of your plans and after 30? days you are deemed to have consent - unless they right with a pretty good reason for not allowing it. Most of the shed manufacturers will do it for free cos it's so simple.

    It's now common to have to do a newt survey for anything within 300m of a pond that needs Planning Permission. Unfortunately, another 400 for a hippy to come out and poke around in the mud - still if he doesn't find any Great Crested Newts then no problems. You may as well get him to do a general ecological "walkover" survey (probably only another 50) and at least that way you'll get a report that you can send to Planning covering all the protected species - if he says there's no problems then the Planners will accept that regardless of your idiot neighbours. If you're thinking of a shed on unimproved pasture you'll probably have to do the walkover survey anyway. I'm surprised the Badger man didn't recommend doing the proper survey (to encompass all the protected species) but if he was from the local Badger Group he shouldn't have charged you more than his travel anyway.

    It's always worth ringing up the ecologist at your local council. They can be a bit precious about the little creatures but often give good general advice. When I did, I was told not to worry about a survey for a shed on semi-improved land even with a pond within 200m. She was well aware that I could have massacred thousands of newts and voles with the mower!
    Make sure you read his report through before you forward it or let him submit it - we had this done for a house site - report stated that there were no GCN present and then went on to recommend full mitigation (including a licensed newt-mover) be in place throughout the build!

  16. #16

    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    [QUOTE=LALANS;200451]First of check the Planning Regs for your area. Should be on your local authority website. Then call and ask to speak to local planning officer. Ask him to provide written confirmation of what you require, better still if you get his/her name write/e-mail to them

    If you want to ask Wiltshire Council if planning permission is required, they won't tell you unless you pay a fee of 30.

    When the lady in the planning office told me what I wanted to know, she also said that the information was only her opinion and was not legally binding!

  17. #17

    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Is there a simple way to do away with any newts that might be present around the farmyard?

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Anglian Water are replacing a water main that crosses our land soon (only taken them 20 odd years to do it ) and had an ecological survey done, the surveyor said there would be no newts in our ponds as there were ducks using them .

    Maybe get some ducks.
    Stay in Northamptonshire - meadowviewcottages.co.uk

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by spin cycle View Post
    i'm probably wrong but i didn't think 'permitted development' covers livestock buildings? i'm sure there was a news story awhile back where a guy wanted a stable for his daughters pony....the neighbours blocked it ....so the guy sold the land to travellers.....apparently the neighbours were 'devastated'
    I am sure you are right about the livestock building. The OP needs to do some checking with the LA. Perhaps offer to put up a nice barn under the permitted rules as close as is allowed to the neighbour.
    Is the neighbour also concerned that a livestock building will lead to a planning application for a dwelling?

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by spin cycle View Post
    i'm probably wrong but i didn't think 'permitted development' covers livestock buildings? i'm sure there was a news story awhile back where a guy wanted a stable for his daughters pony....the neighbours blocked it ....so the guy sold the land to travellers.....apparently the neighbours were 'devastated'
    Ponies are not, I think, "livestock" as they are not bred for meat, milk, fleeces, hides, or working the land.

    I've always argue that mine are bred for meat so are agricultural -- but if some damned fool wants to ride them, that is not my fault!

    I think Shetlands, Highlands, and Clydesdales can be argued to be livestock in Scotland under the above definition and, as such, are classed differently at local shows.

    Anyway, there is enough leeway there to have a bit of fun with!

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Try farming in north east Carmarthenshire, Wales, the neighbours object to everything! Sheds, ploughing, moving animals, stocking levels, bale stacks, feeding pads, basically every farming practice! Although when the roads are blocked with snow, suddenly they want help and want a neighborly favour, ha!

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    PD rights do cover ag buildings. The system is called Prior Notification in most places.

    http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/15/03/...ent-rights.htm

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    thanks for the replies, its good to know there are people out there who understand how frustrating this sort of thing can be. the building Im trying to put up is small, 35 x 15 m, but I was told that a livestock building is not covered by permitted development so had to go for full planning. I tried to talk to the neighbours and explain why I needed a building and that I would minimise any impact on them, and they all agreed that 'in principle' I needed a building, but when it came down to location they objected to every possible site. I had to withdraw my planning application first time round because the council planning officer informally advised me that it would be turned down, so I lost the planning fee and had to pay another fee, plus money for surveyors etc to apply again on another location just 50 m away from the first proposed site. Has taken over a year so far. Meanwhile no shelter for lambing, hay, machinery. I came out of the royal marines 2 years ago and scraped together the money to get this bit of land which had been neglected for years, no fencing, no water supply, overgrown scrub etc and have been trying hard to get things in order and make a go of it, but this planning saga has really demoralised me. And all the people who object to me getting a building love walking their dogs all over my land, and when I moved in all told me how glad they were that it would be farmed properly again...ah well, better have a cup of tea and calm down. Luckily the person who did the badger survey has written a letter (and not charged me for it) saying that it is unlikely that newts live in the pond and that they wont be disturbed even if they are there. that should help.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Livestock buidings do have pd rights but have to be 400 mtrs from a house which is not on the farm. Have had huge battles with Wilts council but won every time. Would agree about telling the locals to keep their mouths shut or it will be pikeys but remember it doesnt matter how much they complain the council have to have legitimate reasons to turn planning down and you can then appeal free of charge to the planning inspectorate and go for costs, it doesnt hurt to remind the planners of this, NEVER ever tell them you want livestock in it as there can be problems with smells etc always for machines/hay etc.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by robs1 View Post
    Livestock buidings do have pd rights but have to be 400 mtrs from a house which is not on the farm. Have had huge battles with Wilts council but won every time. Would agree about telling the locals to keep their mouths shut or it will be pikeys but remember it doesnt matter how much they complain the council have to have legitimate reasons to turn planning down and you can then appeal free of charge to the planning inspectorate and go for costs, it doesnt hurt to remind the planners of this, NEVER ever tell them you want livestock in it as there can be problems with smells etc always for machines/hay etc.
    I am sorry but there is a lot of misguided information being written on this topic. If you are likely to get lots of objections then a PN is NOT the way to go. You can not appeal a PN and I have a letter from PINS telling me that, even after the Inspector had been out and 6 months had elapsed. I have a letter from the Treasury Solicitor (it's a long story !) advising me to use the LDC route (Lawful Development Certificate). You can appeal that.

    I have advised the OP to PM me but nothing yet and it wouldn't be right to air all my experiences on here. The one caveat I will make is that I only have experience of England's planning laws.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Surely though a CLD only applies after 4 or 10 years, depending on the development and only then if nothing has been enforced.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    A few points I've noted so far;
    Is this building really a livestock shed, surely it is a machinery and feed store (which may be used for emergency lambing if the weather is bad)?

    I'm sure that if you withdraw a Planning Application (on the advise of the Planner) and submit a revised Application then your first fee covers the second. I does here - a large wind turbine application withdrawn and replaced with even larger proposal - fee waved!

    Always read your Ecological report and agree it's contents before you either pay for it or send it to the Council. You are the client paying for the survey, if they make stupid recommendations because they want more work tell them. Do you think they'd get away with that working for Redrow?

    Everyone who walks their dog on you land (presuming not on a footpath) should be sent a nice letter outlining your scale of charges; per dog per time etc. and that you will be declining to allow any one to partake in the service until a nominal backdated fee of, say, 50 is paid.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Surely though a CLD only applies after 4 or 10 years, depending on the development and only then if nothing has been enforced.
    I assume you mean an LDC ? If so then you are incorrect.

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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootneck View Post
    And all the people who object to me getting a building love walking their dogs all over my land, and when I moved in all told me how glad they were that it would be farmed properly again...ah well, better have a cup of tea and calm down.
    Stop them walking your land immediately. I am not sure after how long but they can try and claim it as a 'green open space/village green' for the use of the local community. This will prevent you doing what ever you want to with your land. They have to prove that it hasn't been farmed properly for x years and they have been using it for recreational purposes. Put signs up immediately saying no access and photograph them as evidence and lock any access points, providing there are no footpaths crossing it. I would seek further advice regarding stoping them using your land.

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: neighbours objecting to agricultural building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bootneck View Post
    I have 100 acres with no buildings, I am trying to get permission for a livestock building. My neighbours have got together and have complained to the council about just about every aspect of the plans. They wrote to the council saying there was a badger sett nearby, the council made me pay for a professional ecological survey costing several hundred pounds only to be told they were rabbit holes not badger holes, something I had been saying all along. Now they have told the council there are great crested newts in a nearby pond, and the council are saying I have to pay for another survey. I am sure there are no newts, and even if there were any they would not be disturbed, do I really have to get this survey done? And then what happens when they tell the council of another rare plant or animal that they have found? I can forsee an endless round of expensive surveys to find non existent wildlife. This is seriously pissing me off.
    Having read all the comments I think it's safe to say no one really knows fully the ins/outs and wherefores of planning.
    The best thing to do is speak to a reputable local planning consultant, someone with a proven track record. The initial meeting should be FOC and if you decide to go with him get a fixed fee or better still no planning no fee arrangement,
    Planning Officials within councils adopt a different attitude to such professionals (mainly because these guys no more on planning regs than they do) and tend to move things along a lot quicker. It also removes you from the front line and this can be no bad thing as sometimes we can become angry. A tirade directed at a planner can be 'the best speech you wish you had never made'

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