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Thread: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

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    Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Anybody out there know anything about the rateable value for small farm scale wind turbines. Are they rateable or exempt as in the case of Agricultural businesses. Any information is welcome.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    I asked same as below under the voa renewables rates thread, to no avail ?
    Maybe no one knows yet?

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Never heard of anyone paying rates on wind turbines. I have 2 5kw machines & no rates. (Private - not through farm)

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    They are definitely Rateable, it's a sliding scale based on the rated power I did have a copy but lost it and can't remember where I'd got it from(other from the internet). But I have never come across anyone who actually pays rates on a turbine under 50Kw - best keep your head down. I seem to recall it was only about 50-100/yr for under 50kw????

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    The above 50 kw to 500kw Turbines owners will have a nice bill then and the Valuation Office can go back 7 years?

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    I found it - 14/kW of installed capacity for wind turbines, 8/kW installed capacity for PV. - That's per annum.
    Keep your heads down.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    what if its connected to a farm/farm business

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    I found it - 14/kW of installed capacity for wind turbines, 8/kW installed capacity for PV. - That's per annum.
    Keep your heads down.
    everybody wants they,re hand in the jam

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    zsnotdead- that is if it is connected to a farm where MOST of the generation is used on farm. If MOST of the generation is exported then you pay much more and if it's over 50kW you pay more again. As you said - fingers in Jam!
    There is a yougov webpage that sets it all out but basically if it's under 50kW you don't get charged rates until the next valuation round (2015?) but if it's over 50kW you have to get a special valuation and pay from day one. 7000/yr for 500kW? so if you're renting your land to a turbine Co. make sure they are going to pay the rateable charge.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    zsnotdead- that is if it is connected to a farm where MOST of the generation is used on farm. If MOST of the generation is exported then you pay much more and if it's over 50kW you pay more again. As you said - fingers in Jam!
    There is a yougov webpage that sets it all out but basically if it's under 50kW you don't get charged rates until the next valuation round (2015?) but if it's over 50kW you have to get a special valuation and pay from day one. 7000/yr for 500kW? so if you're renting your land to a turbine Co. make sure they are going to pay the rateable charge.
    Thanks everyone for the Info. Zsnotdead - do you have a link to that webpage please?

    I have since found some info whereby if under 50kw AND using most electricity on farm, then no rates payable at the moment. In the case of 50:50 (such as deemed export arrangement) then they assume most electricity used on site so no rates payable. If you export more than you use then you do pay rates and the amount seems to be 14/kw/annum. Above 50kw everyone pays I think.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastender View Post
    Thanks everyone for the Info. Zsnotdead - do you have a link to that webpage please?

    I have since found some info whereby if under 50kw AND using most electricity on farm, then no rates payable at the moment. In the case of 50:50 (such as deemed export arrangement) then they assume most electricity used on site so no rates payable. If you export more than you use then you do pay rates and the amount seems to be 14/kw/annum. Above 50kw everyone pays I think.
    Small is best then?

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    I think Eastender that you misunderstood - for less than 50kW installed capacity and on a farm where you use over 50% of the generation you DO pay rates at 14/kw/yr but if the turbine was installed after 2010 you DON'T pay rates until the next valuation round (was 2015 but delayed now until 2017), so you get a few years free. If you don't use more than 50% of the generation then strictly speaking you have to pay from the outset - but who's keeping that info?!

    Just Google "Rateable value wind turbine" and go to the VOA (Valuation Office Agency) site. Of coarse things are slightly different in England to that of Wales and different again in Scotland.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Rateable value does not mean that is the amount of rates you will pay. I have a building that is rated at 5500 but rates levied is 1270.

    The rates are worked out using a 'multiplier'. Which is 46.2. In other words it is 46.2% of the rateable value. For a 50kw wind turbine it works out at 323.40. If your lucky your council might give you small business relief, ours does, which is 50%. This would take your rate bill to 161.70.

    It all depends how much support rural and small business gets from your council. I know our town high street hasn't paid any rates for 5 years.
    Last edited by porterswood; 28-10-13 at 07:48 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Council's are so called ''so hard up'' now that they are after every penny.
    Their argument is they don't set the rates only collect them?
    They are trying to get out of the rural rate relief discounts as well , like holiday cottages , with 70 day rules per clients per cottage to qualify as non domestic and get the relief or otherwise if under you got to pay the full domestic council tax and get no relief.
    If we are farmers do it by the book we are always clobbered.
    Look at all the people working from home with big business/side lines,shed or cottage out the back paying NO RATES or Tax most probally???
    Why don't the VO chase them- too much like hard work for them???
    They are changeing things all the time.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Council's are so called ''so hard up'' now that they are after every penny.
    Their argument is they don't set the rates only collect them?
    They are trying to get out of the rural rate relief discounts as well , like holiday cottages , with 70 day rules per clients per cottage to qualify as non domestic and get the relief or otherwise if under you got to pay the full domestic council tax and get no relief.
    If we are farmers do it by the book we are always clobbered.
    Look at all the people working from home with big business/side lines,shed or cottage out the back paying NO RATES or Tax most probally???
    Why don't the VO chase them- too much like hard work for them???
    They are changeing things all the time.
    For a 50kw turbine they can only charge 323 maximum. They have to use with the multiplier issued by the VOA. They should also have the small business relief scheme somewhere on their website, the SNC's is here,

    If you meet the criteria you get it, they can't pick and choose who is eligible for it. The government have said that the relief should be 100%, but I think it is up to the council. So for a 50kw turbine the rates can be anywhere from 0 to 323 depending on the council and your personal circumstances.

    the trouble with holiday lets is they can soon become permanent homes for some. They should duly pay council tax like everyone else, hence the 70 day rule. The same applies to caravan parks. A specific caravan can only be sited and used for 337 continuous days per year.

    The reason the VOA don't chase people who don't seem to be paying their dues is simple. They probably don't know. They can't see into everyone's house, shed or garden. I don't think I would reasonably expect them to either.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by porterswood View Post
    For a 50kw turbine they can only charge 323 maximum. They have to use with the multiplier issued by the VOA. They should also have the small business relief scheme somewhere on their website, the SNC's is here,

    If you meet the criteria you get it, they can't pick and choose who is eligible for it. The government have said that the relief should be 100%, but I think it is up to the council. So for a 50kw turbine the rates can be anywhere from 0 to 323 depending on the council and your personal circumstances.

    the trouble with holiday lets is they can soon become permanent homes for some. They should duly pay council tax like everyone else, hence the 70 day rule. The same applies to caravan parks. A specific caravan can only be sited and used for 337 continuous days per year.

    The reason the VOA don't chase people who don't seem to be paying their dues is simple. They probably don't know. They can't see into everyone's house, shed or garden. I don't think I would reasonably expect them to either.
    Usually holidays homes have sec.106 restrictions on them, so totally not the same as per in the street who fancies to let a house out to anyone for any length of time.
    The VOA should be chaseing non rates payers, as can easy chase the above board person and burden further.
    They have all the means of the modern world to track them down.
    Why should they not pay taxes, like the rest of us, crazy to say otherwise?

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Usually holidays homes have sec.106 restrictions on them, so totally not the same as per in the street who fancies to let a house out to anyone for any length of time.
    The VOA should be chaseing non rates payers, as can easy chase the above board person and burden further.
    They have all the means of the modern world to track them down.
    Why should they not pay taxes, like the rest of us, crazy to say otherwise?
    I've never said people shouldn't pay taxes where they are due, I have said the opposite. When holiday lets get planning permission they put conditions on the permission to stop unwanted development.

    For example a farmer applies for holiday lets. the council allows them because they support rural business. They would almost certainly refuse an application for dwellings. That means the building would come under business rates and not council tax. If someone lives in I all year round it is actually a dwelling. The person living in , or landlord, is circumventing the legal requirement to pay council tax. They are paying business rates, but this could theoretically be set at zero. This is giving the tenant/landlord a financial advantage. Something which the 70 day rule is there to stop, rightly in my opinion. everyone should pay the dues they are legally obliged to pay.

    It is always easy to police people who are registered and above board, after all they know you exist. That is my point.

    For example, if you are caught speeding the police can easily catch you as they know who you are. If you pass the speed camera in an unregistered car, speeding, they cannot catch you. After all they don't know who you are.

    It is up to the general public to point them in the right direction, they count on people reporting breeches to them. As I have said you can't expect the VOA to inspect every house, garden and shed in the country. However the public as a whole can. It is up to the individual if they act on their findings, whether it is uninsured drivers or failing to pay rates.

    Once they know the breech exists they can use all the modern tricks to chase it up. Otherwise it is like using a metal detector to find a needle in a barn full of hay, they might strike lucky but most of the time they will fail.

    Back to the point I made first. Just because the turbine is rated at 700 doesn't mean the rate bill will be 700.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Yes the RV does't mean what you pay, its the domestic or non-Domestic multiplier that is calculated.
    Just wait for the VOA to send the paperwork out , and Council to bill you.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    In the grand scheme of things the rates aren't that much. It costs more for the export metering, assuming I pay the 160. This is the amount that was written into my forecast when planning my project.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    The Government gives you the money (fits), and takes it away.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    You pay for export metering, Porterswood? Blimy.

    So good news about the rates then, so it's 14/kW/yr x multiplier - relief = not worth the paperwork to collect the amount from a 10 kW turbine. Result!

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    You pay for export metering, Porterswood? Blimy.

    So good news about the rates then, so it's 14/kW/yr x multiplier - relief = not worth the paperwork to collect the amount from a 10 kW turbine. Result!
    My turbine is 50kw so i have to have half hourly export metering

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Yes, well you probably produce in a half hour what I knock out in a day (if I'm lucky). So the 160 metering charge is nothing really. Lets hope the electricity Co.s don't get silly with an increase on that!

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    Yes, well you probably produce in a half hour what I knock out in a day (if I'm lucky). So the 160 metering charge is nothing really. Lets hope the electricity Co.s don't get silly with an increase on that!
    My meter belongs to me, operated by IMSERV. So the electric company can't charge me anything for it.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by porterswood View Post
    My meter belongs to me, operated by IMSERV. So the electric company can't charge me anything for it.
    You sure you own the meter?
    import and export meters normally belong to the metering company.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Western Power Metering (who were a bit cheaper than Imserv when I priced up) offered to either lease the meter or buy outright. The payback was just less than 2 years so a no-brainer. Still have to pay them for 'meter maintenance' but worth doing so.

    I have only one meter that does both, but SP who do my import can't read it remotely as Opus (export) get all the data. I know it's possible to split the data flow but couldn't get it into SP's head. After a few months of spurious estimated bills, a complaint later, they send a man every month! I would like to simplify by using only one supplier for both imp/exp but SP were still quite a bit cheaper so left it alone.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by e3120 View Post
    Western Power Metering (who were a bit cheaper than Imserv when I priced up) offered to either lease the meter or buy outright. The payback was just less than 2 years so a no-brainer. Still have to pay them for 'meter maintenance' but worth doing so.

    I have only one meter that does both, but SP who do my import can't read it remotely as Opus (export) get all the data. I know it's possible to split the data flow but couldn't get it into SP's head. After a few months of spurious estimated bills, a complaint later, they send a man every month! I would like to simplify by using only one supplier for both imp/exp but SP were still quite a bit cheaper so left it alone.
    That sound exaclty the same as my set up, only my import is with British Gas. The first year's cost was high, because of the meter purchase, then the following years it is just maintenance and data collection fees.

    british gas just send estimated bills, as long as they don't get to far out i'm not that bothered.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by e3120 View Post
    Western Power Metering (who were a bit cheaper than Imserv when I priced up) offered to either lease the meter or buy outright. The payback was just less than 2 years so a no-brainer. Still have to pay them for 'meter maintenance' but worth doing so.

    I have only one meter that does both, but SP who do my import can't read it remotely as Opus (export) get all the data. I know it's possible to split the data flow but couldn't get it into SP's head. After a few months of spurious estimated bills, a complaint later, they send a man every month! I would like to simplify by using only one supplier for both imp/exp but SP were still quite a bit cheaper so left it alone.
    How much do the meters cost?
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    How much do the meters cost?
    275 from WPM. That's an Elster A1700 which does half-hourly for import and export and remote comms. It also supplies the import/export pulses for my EMMA-style smart electric heating system. They wanted 200 a year to lease it. I still have to pay them 45 a year maintenance and 150 for the data collection - the DC would be to pay anyway and sometimes is charged through the export supplier.

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    Re: Farm Wind Turbines & Rates

    Seems that where a 275kWh turbine has been de-rated to 200kWh then the higher figure is used for the RV - doesn't really matter at the moment though because 100% SBRR will apply below a 6k RV

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