Suggestions to get sheep hardier..

[Thick Farmer]

Tell them to man up!

[mallarchy]

The 'peelers' becoming so popular within the various Texel breeds have nothing to do with the wool shedders that TimW et al would promote. The peelers are desperately trying to breed tight skinned lambs out of long wool cross ewes, to give an impression of better fleshing. True wool shedding sheep have a fleece which sheds in the Spring/Summer, so are properly covered in the winter. Hair sheep will have a dense coat which will be every bit as weatherproof as an open woolled fleece.

Well, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing Tim's sheep in January, it may well be very enlightening, I just hope we get some nice driven sleet that day!!....but only in the south though!

[NeilO]

Well, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing Tim's sheep in January, it may well be very enlightening, I just hope we get some nice driven sleet that day!!....but only in the south though!

I do hope you take any of your preconceptions with you. You will only find it enlightening if you are prepared to be enlightened.

[mallarchy]

I do hope you take any of your preconceptions with you. You will only find it enlightening if you are prepared to be enlightened.

If I wasn't prepared to be enlightened I wouldn't be making the effort in the first place, I'm not entirely sure I have any preconception. As I've said repeatedly, I have not breed allegiances. You may have misunderstand the points I've been making, the main one being, you can't afford to sacrifice output for other supposed gains because those gains don't pay for the lost output, however, if you can get gains without a reduction in output.........Well, we'll find out!

[Tim W]

. You may have misunderstand the points I've been making, the main one being, you can't afford to sacrifice output for other supposed gains because those gains don't pay for the lost output, however, if you can get gains without a reduction in output.........Well, we'll find out!

Exactly----this is what we are trying to do with the Exlana. having farmed Wiltshire horns for years I know that the 30% they lose in production ( compared with say the Lleyn) is not recompensed by them being wool shedders

But if you can have a ewe with the same or better production levels that has reduced input costs due to wool shedding /parasite resistance etc then you are on to a winner

Are we doing this? I think so but the proof is in the pudding----look forward to seeing you in January but if you bring more sleet/driving rain than is normal you won't get invited again--

[pycoed]

I doubt they'd add a lot of hardiness to anything, would they?

Well to the shepherd, perhaps? They're not sold with a free shovel per pen for nothing you know

[posterpat]

The Charollais genetics might compensate for Suffolk or Texel deficiencies in vigour and/or growth. You'll get cracking lambs off a Beltex, which are easy-lambed and quick on their feet. Char X Beltex ewes are low-maintenance in terms of feeding. If you go to Cheviot or Texel you'll lose prolificacy and don't even think about a Blackface or BFL!

[shearer]

and don't even think about a Blackface or BFL![/QUOTE]

Was the op not asking to get hardier sheep well surely in that regard the blackie is as hardy a sheep as you'll get in uk????

[lady pumpkin]

You don't really understand this BFL/ Mule thing, do you. But I don't know anything about Gloucestershire. Although I know that Montgomeryshire used to be famous for its exceptional herds of British Friesians.

agree with you on most things slick,but a bfl wouldn't be suitable in this case.

3/4 charolais lambs tho.(thumbs down)

[spin cycle]

put some soay in if you want hard....they are b******d hard

[Gee]

Simple turn the clock back fifty years!
gee

[Gee]

I sometimes wonder if some of you have any idea or knowledge about sheep.

Why on earth do you think the BFL is the nationally acclaimed breed that it is? It's because it nicks with a lot of hill and upland breeds and produces a crossbred female which can have an even hardier constitution. A Mule out of a Blackface or a Swaledale (bred by hill farmers from the Highlands to down as far as Devon) has a will to live and produce which is at least as strong as that of its it's mother.

I can't speak for The welsh or the Irish, but from what I see and hear, many of their hard-bitten hill and upland sheep farmers must be of the same opinion.;

And be looked after (I use the words "Looked after" in the loosest sense of the word) by some one who has little if any sheep knowledge.
gee

[NeilO]

And be looked after (I use the words "Looked after" in the loosest sense of the word) by some one who has little if any sheep knowledge.
gee

So Gee, as a breeder of said creatures, you would you suggest that the BFL would add hardiness, as the OP wants?

IMO, I can see (if I squint) where the BFL can add size, prolificacy and even style (if that floats your boat), to a hardy hill breed, but hardiness???

[DBJ]

So Gee, as a breeder of said creatures, you would you suggest that the BFL would add hardiness, as the OP wants?

IMO, I can see (if I squint) where the BFL can add size, prolificacy and even style (if that floats your boat), to a hardy hill breed, but hardiness???

+1

[posterpat]

and don't even think about a Blackface or BFL!

Was the op not asking to get hardier sheep well surely in that regard the blackie is as hardy a sheep as you'll get in uk????[/QUOTE]

A Blackie ewe is hardy and usually passes hardiness on to its progeny of whatever cross. Same can't be said of a Blackie tup crossed on anything but a Blackie. It doesn't work and I have no idea why.

[Gee]

So Gee, as a breeder of said creatures, you would you suggest that the BFL would add hardiness, as the OP wants?

IMO, I can see (if I squint) where the BFL can add size, prolificacy and even style (if that floats your boat), to a hardy hill breed, but hardiness???

Blackface....or other upland breed adds hardiness
BFL.............Provides prolificacy and size.
Depending on the skill of the purchaser or breeder, a combination of the two produces a thrifty hard working ewe that will consistently produce and feed two lambs of a reasonable grade, with minimal work on the part of the owner / shepherd.
No doubt there are crosses, Heinz 57 varieties etc around that can produce better shaped lambs etc, but so far nothing comes near the total package.
Remember there was a time before BFL produced mules, they swept all before them.
Evolve a better all round package, then the world is your Oyster. The last 30 or 40 years are littered with the great new sires that were proclaimed to be the breed to produce the new commercial ewe, none have prospered to any extent.
When it does arrive the change will be dramatic, exactly as was the takeover of the BFL bred mules. So far, huge change does not seem imminent.
Gee

[oneman]

I would go poll dorset as well , three quarter dorset , back to a charollais is excellent carcase ,E grades arnt hard to get ,(and a probaly better lamb than pure chars ) dorset will add easy finish and MILK ,very hardy we used near bald chars in the early days lambed indoors in nov out at 48 hrs @ 750' dorset added the wool and she would dig through snow for grass , the cross is A world away from pure dorsets that can be a bit light weight and dopy at birth

Recently bought 2 Dorset Rams, due to easy lambing and hardier than a char. Would they be as prolific as a char or Suffolk ? Would the Dorset lamb finish well of grass ? Are they more maternal breed or do you think they are better as a sire or ram just ?