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Thread: New Defender

  1. #1
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    New Defender

    Our TD5 has come to the end of its time with us as being a front line machine has become too much for it.

    We are quite loyal landrover fans and will probably replace it with a 2008ish 90 however we are not massive fans of the even smaller cab space (leg room/cramped) in the 2.4 defenders. Or the cost.

    With a budget of 10,000-15,000 what would you replace it with?

    We spend a lot of time towing cattle with a 14ft tri axle Ifor and general running around, not a lot of off roaring other than pulling into gates to drop animals off. We get in with our willies on etc and don't know if anything else will stand it inside.

    Not a massive fan of pick ups, especially since so few are rated to 3500kg, but could be converted.

    any advice or comments welcome!

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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by BMEH View Post
    Our TD5 has come to the end of its time with us as being a front line machine has become too much for it.

    We are quite loyal landrover fans and will probably replace it with a 2008ish 90 however we are not massive fans of the even smaller cab space (leg room/cramped) in the 2.4 defenders. Or the cost.

    With a budget of 10,000-15,000 what would you replace it with?

    We spend a lot of time towing cattle with a 14ft tri axle Ifor and general running around, not a lot of off roaring other than pulling into gates to drop animals off. We get in with our willies on etc and don't know if anything else will stand it inside.

    Not a massive fan of pick ups, especially since so few are rated to 3500kg, but could be converted.

    any advice or comments welcome!
    Something like a LR Discovery3 would suit you fine. Rubber mats and seat covers inside and away you go. Sorted. Plenty of choice too. Or a Shogun. Avoid three door short wheelbase versions as there is more choice of five doors and they tow better. Plenty of Land Cruisers looking for a good home too, but check the maximum towing capacities. The main ones that can tow 3.5 tons are LR/RR and the big Land Cruiser [100/200 series as opposed to the Collorado 90/120/150 series]
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    Junior Member MR NODDY's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    How did you get on with your TD5? If you didn't have any major gripes, then why not go for another?
    The sort of budget you're talking would get you a good, low mileage, late year example that's probably never been near a farmyard!

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    Re: New Defender

    I can sort of sympathise with you. Fairly loyal LD customer here for a couple of reasons. With the land rover having zero carpet and most of the sides and roof being bare tin, it is easier to clean and hold less stinking dirt and dust than other more domesticated models. You can turn a hose onto everything but the seats and the dash. Perfect for us really because we don't treat it terribly kindly. The other issue I have with pickups is that when they are generally longer than the ld 90 and when you let the tailgate down you can't actually reach anything that has slid to the front of the pickup. This is especially important when you transport two or three bags of meal to calves at grass at the back end. We lean them up against the front so they don't slide over and spill.

    Many miles on your td5? Ours is yr 2000.

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    Re: New Defender

    Ours is a 2000, done 122,000 gets hot when towing and the back door is rotten, I've loved it to be honest and done 700+ miles in a day towing.

    I had a disco 3 as my car which I liked but always felt a bit good for work, also had a odd problem(handbrake) and the bills get big fast. I like the VW touareg reasonably priced I like vw's but also a bit too "good" and seem rare. Commercial shogun is ok borrowed one recently.

    I like the td5 but low mileage ones are overpriced and I don't like to ignore progress out of spite if that makes any sense.

    06 or newer would be good too for a private plate.

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Something like a LR Discovery3 would suit you fine. Rubber mats and seat covers inside and away you go. Sorted. Plenty of choice too. Or a Shogun. Avoid three door short wheelbase versions as there is more choice of five doors and they tow better. Plenty of Land Cruisers looking for a good home too, but check the maximum towing capacities. The main ones that can tow 3.5 tons are LR/RR and the big Land Cruiser [100/200 series as opposed to the Collorado 90/120/150 series]
    Potential, actually, certainty for *massive* bills, no thanks.


    Shogun or l'crusier yes; or renovate your existing TD5 for much less than 15k !

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
    Potential, actually, certainty for *massive* bills, no thanks.


    Shogun or l'crusier yes; or renovate your existing TD5 for much less than 15k !

    +1 Jap stuff the best.

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    Re: New Defender

    Obviously renovating it would cost much less but I think it's time to renew.

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    Senior Member Wellies's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Have you tried one of the Puma engined ones? Cabin space is smaller but not too bad once you get used to it. Much better engine than the TD5 IMO, much more torquey and the 6 speed is brilliant too

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    Re: New Defender

    Just taken delivery of a new defender,i am told next year they will have abs braking on them and cost a grand more , and do you really want that ,now thats also going to be their last year of manufacture,now surely if you purchased a new one now ..with nfu discount of 5%if you are a member, hitch ..ifor canopy and radio front, and back mud flaps,comes out at just over 17500k on road ..plus 55 quid delivery and 230 road tax ,my point is i cant see its going to lose a lot over say 5 years in comparison with a jap pickup,my old one which i still have has done approx 260k and pulls anything ...in fact sometimes a lot more than it shud

  11. #11
    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by BMEH View Post
    Our TD5 has come to the end of its time with us as being a front line machine has become too much for it.

    We are quite loyal landrover fans and will probably replace it with a 2008ish 90 however we are not massive fans of the even smaller cab space (leg room/cramped) in the 2.4 defenders. Or the cost.

    With a budget of 10,000-15,000 what would you replace it with?

    We spend a lot of time towing cattle with a 14ft tri axle Ifor and general running around, not a lot of off roaring other than pulling into gates to drop animals off. We get in with our willies on etc and don't know if anything else will stand it inside.

    Not a massive fan of pick ups, especially since so few are rated to 3500kg, but could be converted.

    any advice or comments welcome!
    Buy a discovery commercial.
    All the towing ability of a defender but with a cab you can be comfortable in. Seat covers and rubber mats on it the rest can be cleaned up if needed and can double up as a car if required. Extra length gives stability when trailering and with passenger seat flat can take 8ft sheep troughs or a 9ft sheet or timber.
    I've a clean TD5 commercial with full MOT for sale which I've replaced with a Discovery 3 comm

  12. #12
    Senior Member Storming's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Having got both a 90 and a disco on the farm I'd go for a disco 3 comm every time.

    S

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    Re: New Defender

    I've a 04 plate TD5 disco commercial for the farm having wanted something bit more comfy after a 90, and I rate it highly, much safer feeling towing, cheap spares and the local Iraqi car cleaning man seems to clean the inside very well without wrecking it for every MOT. Mats and seat covers and I just plaster the rest in crap, you know its time for a clean when the seeds of corn and grass start growing on the inside, but it leaks less than a 90 as well I found! Only downside is its a bit heavier when your on some softer ground but hey ho u just have to get more momentum before u get to the soft spot!

    Should say I owned a Ford Ranger pick in between the 90 and disco, 6months and I'd warped the block and couldn't get the new cylinder head to seal so local auction it a went, plus it didn't tow enough really, thought i'd get by but its surprising when u actually weigh a full cattle trailer or flat bed what it all adds up to!

  14. #14

    Re: New Defender

    We have a 10 reg defender coming up to 75,000 miles had it from new, personally don't think you can beat them for the abuse they take! Can jump in shit up chuck the dog in the back and not worry about getting carpets wet and dirty.Most of the time it's coupled to a 14ft tri axle ifor loaded with cows or sheep trailing the country side and tows it fine, would recommend a decent set of tyres, swapped the original road tyres it came with for 235 85 bf Goodrich think this helps a lot. Plenty of grunt compared to the td5 we had before it. Can see it being cramped for the taller chaps but I find it quite comfortable. Also know of a fella who ran into a Vauxhall vectra with a defender, vectra was written off defender had a slight bent bumper and a cracked number plate!!!!

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    I too used to have a TD5 SWB Defender. As it aged it drove me up the wall with a series of breakdowns. I came to the conclusion that Landrovers were crap. Bought a Mitsibushi L200 4 SEATER now wonder why I was so loyal to landrover. Great on the road super off road, pulls like a tank plus it has a decent heater and a comfortable ride. I'm sure I paid ~14K ex VAT. Also the load platform in the back is huge (2 bags of feedings and you were fecked with the landy) plus room for passengers. Better MPG, faster, cheaper to service, reliable need I go on.

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    Re: New Defender

    Ah, but when you drive it into things, it'll crumple just like a car. Pop put our defender nose first absolutely vertically into a six foot deep ditch in the snow. Had to crane it out with two telehandlers. Slight crinkle on the very front of the bonnet. These things aren't supposed to happen, but they do. That cow wasn't supposed to try to squeeze between it and the hedge either. And Dad's neck doesn't bend like it used to so when reversing he has a habit of just guessing now. Sometimes that doesn't work out too well. The most solid think he backed into was when he missed the storage shed doorway and caught one of the supporting RSJs with the back corner. Mainly a paint scuff again. Oh the stories our defender could tell...

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    Re: New Defender

    few advocates for the Japanese trucks here but my comment is that when we are trying to persuade consumers to buy british then why the hell would you be seen in anything that 'doesn't ' have landrover on it?? Always had them and yes have driven other marques and nothing outs up with the punishment the same that and parts are so cheap if they do go wrong. I would give a tdci a go , its only couple of years til new model comes out if you not that keen on it. TD5's with low mileage are expensive but there's a reason for that....they're very good.

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    Re: New Defender

    Build quality on the later 2.2's has declined to criminal!

  19. #19
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    I too used to have a TD5 SWB Defender. As it aged it drove me up the wall with a series of breakdowns. I came to the conclusion that Landrovers were crap. Bought a Mitsibushi L200 4 SEATER now wonder why I was so loyal to landrover. Great on the road super off road, pulls like a tank plus it has a decent heater and a comfortable ride. I'm sure I paid ~14K ex VAT. Also the load platform in the back is huge (2 bags of feedings and you were fecked with the landy) plus room for passengers. Better MPG, faster, cheaper to service, reliable need I go on.
    We also have an old 90, and a much newer pick-up. Through several bad winters and other events, I have come to see that the truck is every bit as good as the 90 at pulling, busting through deep snow, slogging through mud. It has taken a few years to change my mind, but it is no longer true that only a Land Rover can do that kind of work. When the back cross member started rotting on the 90, I told the OH to never mind replacing it for towing.

    And as a side benefit with the truck, you get back seats if you want them, you don't need a chiropractor when you get out if it, it doesn't leak water into the passenger footwell, and as said, you can load the heck out of the bed.

    The 90 has stayed for sentimental reasons - the OH bought and rebuilt it for me for Christmas one year. But with a 3.5 V8, you can guess which one goes to the mart.

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    Re: New Defender

    If you didn't realise, modern cars are designed to crumple and destroy themselves in the event of any impact. When you see metal and plastic and glass crinkle, crumple, bend, break or smash, that is good because the energy the vehicle was carrying is being spent destroying the car rather than the occupants.

    The Defender is probably one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road in the UK today. The Defender is NOT available for general sale in the USA whilst all the other LR models are. This is because it has no hope of passing their VERY strict crash standards, one of their tests, for example, involves the test vehicle being smashed in the backside by a deformable concrete object moving at 60mph after which it is not allowed to leak a single drop of fuel.

    I know this because one of my relatives over there works for the transport/accident investigation organisation they have there.

    Crash a Defender into a solid brick wall or tree and then come back and tell me I'm right. For this reason alone you should be running a Disco or a Jap truck. The new Defender can't come soon enough.

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
    Build quality on the later 2.2's has declined to criminal!
    The ones i've looked at are very poor on body alignment, i'd imagine that the front wings sections and all the other 'sections' of the mechano set are being built in india and shipped over as sub assemblies these days. Years ago when i used to mess about with old series landrovers you could buy cheap pattern front outer wings that weren't quite folded right. the curve was too sharp and they didn' butt up to the inner wing properly so instead of having a neat crease where the panels joined, you'd get a gap pulled together everywhere there was a bolt and gaping open between the bolts. They look like that from new now.

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    The ones i've looked at are very poor on body alignment, i'd imagine that the front wings sections and all the other 'sections' of the mechano set are being built in india and shipped over as sub assemblies these days. Years ago when i used to mess about with old series landrovers you could buy cheap pattern front outer wings that weren't quite folded right. the curve was too sharp and they didn' butt up to the inner wing properly so instead of having a neat crease where the panels joined, you'd get a gap pulled together everywhere there was a bolt and gaping open between the bolts. They look like that from new now.
    Christ man, I'm yet to see a Defender you could not see the panel gaps in from low earth orbit! One of the problems of not having a monoque body- not very rigid.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    If you didn't realise, modern cars are designed to crumple and destroy themselves in the event of any impact. When you see metal and plastic and glass crinkle, crumple, bend, break or smash, that is good because the energy the vehicle was carrying is being spent destroying the car rather than the occupants.

    The Defender is probably one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road in the UK today. The Defender is NOT available for general sale in the USA whilst all the other LR models are. This is because it has no hope of passing their VERY strict crash standards, one of their tests, for example, involves the test vehicle being smashed in the backside by a deformable concrete object moving at 60mph after which it is not allowed to leak a single drop of fuel.

    I know this because one of my relatives over there works for the transport/accident investigation organisation they have there.

    Crash a Defender into a solid brick wall or tree and then come back and tell me I'm right. For this reason alone you should be running a Disco or a Jap truck. The new Defender can't come soon enough.
    Exactly so. A modern car that is hit head-on by a Defender absorbs all the impact. Drive both into a milk stand and see whose occupants come out best. The Defender occupants might not survive where a modern car's occupants would probably just get a few bruises. Mind you, the car would look pretty bad, having absorbed the impact, while the LR would look OK as long as the collision was in the central two thirds of its width. The occupants of the LR would have absorbed much of the impact in their bodies with their internal organs shaken to a mush. If the LR hit it outside its chassis rails, then the light alloy body would be sheared off like a hot knife through butter, along with the outboard limbs of the passengers. No passenger safety cell on these old crocks.
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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Christ man, I'm yet to see a Defender you could not see the panel gaps in from low earth orbit! One of the problems of not having a monoque body- not very rigid.
    Didn't stop Toyota building my Land Cruiser or Isuzu building my Trooper with almost non-existent panel gaps though. Not only are the panel gaps only 2 or 3 mm wide but they are consistently 2 or 3mm. And they are the same today as they were 15 and 20 years ago when the vehicles were built, despite being farm trucks and doing some extreme axle-twisting from time to time.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Exactly so. A modern car that is hit head-on by a Defender absorbs all the impact. Drive both into a milk stand and see whose occupants come out best. The Defender occupants might not survive where a modern car's occupants would probably just get a few bruises. Mind you, the car would look pretty bad, having absorbed the impact, while the LR would look OK as long as the collision was in the central two thirds of its width. The occupants of the LR would have absorbed much of the impact in their bodies with their internal organs shaken to a mush. If the LR hit it outside its chassis rails, then the light alloy body would be sheared off like a hot knife through butter, along with the outboard limbs of the passengers. No passenger safety cell on these old crocks.
    And we haven't hardly started on fuel economy, or lack of it, reliability, or lack of it, the shake rattle and roll, the let's sit with our knees up to our chest and see how quickly the feeling leaves our lower limbs, or let's pish fuel over the mart road when the fuel filter under the back wheel arch disintegrates. And don't you just live for the thrill of flooring it flat out and getting that instant response of 0 - 45 in 3 days. Ah the pleasures of a landy. One realises that its the little things that add that certain something, the heated rear window...............keeps your hands warm when you're pushing it.
    Fantastic!

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Didn't stop Toyota building my Land Cruiser or Isuzu building my Trooper with almost non-existent panel gaps though. Not only are the panel gaps only 2 or 3 mm wide but they are consistently 2 or 3mm. And they are the same today as they were 15 and 20 years ago when the vehicles were built, despite being farm trucks and doing some extreme axle-twisting from time to time.
    Thing is, the Japanese started laying into the US and UK car makers decades ago, they knew about quality assurance and didn't have stoic unions or political support. Either they made good products who they wouldn't sell.

    I know parts from the Asians are expensive, slow to arrive and yes their cars to break down, but they do have a shit hot warranty and manufacturer chain, I'll give them that.

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    Re: New Defender

    As it happens, Dad drove one head on into a beech about 14 years ago coming off a corner too fast on a greasy road. The tail got happy and caught him out. He wasn't wearing a belt as usual, so he bent the top of the steering wheel with his hands right over to touch the top of the dash as he braced for the impact. His ribs bent the bottom half of the steering wheel in. With that he was heck of a sore with the broken ribs for many months. The point of impact was just to the right of middle at the front. Fair on the big bit of chassis running the length of the body. The front didn't look too bad, but it was a write-off because there was a crinkle in the roof which was made obvious by the driver door not closing. That would suggest he hit it at a fair lick.

    You won't get any argument from me over the crumple zones, or lack thereof. My point, though, is that with a vehicle used for farm and short journeys, which is at a high risk of panel damage, the defender does just fine. In that case, we don't want it to crumple thanks much. So they aren't safe enough to be used in towns and cities by joe public. Fair enough. Don't know what joe would want one for anyway.

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    Ah, but when you drive it into things, it'll crumple just like a car. Pop put our defender nose first absolutely vertically into a six foot deep ditch in the snow. Had to crane it out with two telehandlers. Slight crinkle on the very front of the bonnet. These things aren't supposed to happen, but they do. That cow wasn't supposed to try to squeeze between it and the hedge either. And Dad's neck doesn't bend like it used to so when reversing he has a habit of just guessing now. Sometimes that doesn't work out too well. The most solid think he backed into was when he missed the storage shed doorway and caught one of the supporting RSJs with the back corner. Mainly a paint scuff again. Oh the stories our defender could tell...
    I'll just leave this here

    http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-...hopped-6314306
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  29. #29
    Senior Member v12cat's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Exactly so. A modern car that is hit head-on by a Defender absorbs all the impact. Drive both into a milk stand and see whose occupants come out best. The Defender occupants might not survive where a modern car's occupants would probably just get a few bruises. Mind you, the car would look pretty bad, having absorbed the impact, while the LR would look OK as long as the collision was in the central two thirds of its width. The occupants of the LR would have absorbed much of the impact in their bodies with their internal organs shaken to a mush. If the LR hit it outside its chassis rails, then the light alloy body would be sheared off like a hot knife through butter, along with the outboard limbs of the passengers. No passenger safety cell on these old crocks.
    Nail on the head.

    We get the chance to use defenders from time to time over the summer months, travelling back from clients farms and it never ceases to amaze me just how sloppy and downright dangerous a relatively new example of this supposedly robust vehicle can be. As for driver comfort, well it's got what could loosely be described as weather protection and that's about it. I spent my youth messing around with and playing with these things, strenuously defending them against friends with 'lesser' vehicles. I hold my hand up, I was wrong! They were, and still are pitiful and will not be missed one bit by me. Hopefully LR will replace them with something worthy of their status.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Ray's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by v12cat View Post
    Nail on the head.

    We get the chance to use defenders from time to time over the summer months, travelling back from clients farms and it never ceases to amaze me just how sloppy and downright dangerous a relatively new example of this supposedly robust vehicle can be. As for driver comfort, well it's got what could loosely be described as weather protection and that's about it. I spent my youth messing around with and playing with these things, strenuously defending them against friends with 'lesser' vehicles. I hold my hand up, I was wrong! They were, and still are pitiful and will not be missed one bit by me. Hopefully LR will replace them with something worthy of their status.
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