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Thread: New Defender

  1. #151
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfromhill View Post
    I think it's a good safety when towing and certainly helps when roads have patchy snow and ice
    Not alwaya a good thing on a land rover, they're only 1 wheel drive unless the centre diff lock is engadeged, power can be transferd from front to back instantly with some interesting results somtimes

  2. #152
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    Re: New Defender

    I suppose you won't have met these on your daily travels for the last forty years then. You'd realise they're pretty useful in certain contexts.

    http://www.alamy.com/thumbs/6/%7B618...%7D/B5CRJE.jpg

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Tangi

    And a familiar site from my youth...

    http://policecarwebsite.net/fc/copcarpics/ulster.html

    These all had/have the V8 in them too. Still in regular use here. They just don't deflect as much automatic gunfire, blast bombs and roadside bombs these days.

  3. #153
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Are uk land cruisers full time four wheel drive ?
    I don't really see your point on rear wheel drive being useless with that much torque there are plenty of vehicles about that are two wheel drive and have much more torque than that
    Just cos your foot will go to the floor don't mean it has to
    So why have the power in the first place if you can't put it to the ground? I've had and do have part-time 4x4 vehicles, currently one with leaf springs at the back but I've had a few with coils as well. They are and were all absolutely crap on metalled roads when slippery and yet can't be used in 4wd in those conditions without wear and abuse to the drivetrain and the possibility of terminal understeer due to the lack of diff between front and back axles.

    Yes, all UK LandCruisers since 1990 when the 80 series was introduced have been full time apart from the boxy old three door on which the current 70 [79?] available in other areas is based. It was fitted with coils in the UK though and was discontinued when the 90 Series [Colorado] whose current ancestor is the 120 or 150 series, was launched.
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  4. #154
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheggars View Post
    With diff lock front and back it would take some stoping when in 4wheel drive.
    Actually although my 80 series had front, middle and rear diff locks, the 100 and current 200 series only have centre and rear locks. In truth the front and rear are pretty useless, although centre diff control is essential. Give me some kind of traction control over axle diff-locks in a 4wd any day of the week.

    It might be different if we were in a dry country where rock-crawling was the primary use, but we aren't and it isn't.
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  5. #155
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by v12cat View Post
    Which isn't saying much. Finding a gear is like stirring a mug of tea with a spade.

    The Pajero has the option of rear wheel drive, four wheel drive with centre diff (as in the LR), four wheel drive with locked centre diff, and low ratio. Some have lockable rear diffs too.
    Indeed they have. Unfortunately, like Land Cruisers, they do not give the vehicle the option of an open centre diff in low ratio. This is particularly useful with manual transmissions when working around yards, for instance, when manoeuvring heavily laden trailers on dry concrete. All serious Land Rovers and the Range Rover have had this utility since 1971 in the case of RR and 1983 for Land Rover. It makes a massive difference.
    Last edited by Cowabunga; 09-01-14 at 09:28 AM. Reason: 83, not 93.

  6. #156
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    Them land cruisers have been on the go a long time down under and they are regal beasts in the right hands. I suspect the reason we don't get them in Europe is the same reason the defender will cease production. Not up to our high standards
    They are hellish expensive and they don't meet European crash test standards and until recently, and possibly still, the emission regulations. They do sell them and all LC basic utility and part-time versions out of Gibraltar to NGO's and the UN etc.
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  7. #157
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Ever see the Taleban driving Landrovers?
    Last I heard if you are going seriously outback, Jap is what you take.
    (If you intend coming back)
    gee
    If you intend coming back alive you take a sat-phone and ideally at least one back-up vehicle in a convoy, whether Jap or not. That old story you repeated is so much crap. They all break down now and again. My LC 100 has just had a new alternator and it ripped a rear roll-bar bush from the chassis last year. Until the alternator it had not cost me anything in repairs but that is not the same as being totally reliable. Oh! And the engine flat drive belt came loose a few years ago due to sheared air-con mounting bolts.

    Of all the 4wd vehicles that I've ever had, and it is too many to count of many Jap brands as well as three Range Rovers, five Land Rovers including a Mk1 Disco, the only one that has ever left me totally stranded, having broke down in the middle of nowhere while driving, was the 1993 Land Cruiser 80 4.2 turbo diesel. Its diesel injector pump sheared its drive shaft while towing a caravan. Try repairing one of them in the bush before you start drinking the coolant and the sump oil!
    Last edited by Cowabunga; 09-01-14 at 09:37 AM.
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  8. #158
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    So why have the power in the first place if you can't put it to the ground? I've had and do have part-time 4x4 vehicles, currently one with leaf springs at the back but I've had a few with coils as well. They are and were all absolutely crap on metalled roads when slippery and yet can't be used in 4wd in those conditions without wear and abuse to the drivetrain and the possibility of terminal understeer due to the lack of diff between front and back axles.

    Yes, all UK LandCruisers since 1990 when the 80 series was introduced have been full time apart from the boxy old three door on which the current 70 [79?] available in other areas is based. It was fitted with coils in the UK though and was discontinued when the 90 Series [Colorado] whose current ancestor is the 120 or 150 series, was launched.
    All the 4 wheel drives i have had have been 2wd on the road and have been fine in slippery conditions, sugest you learn to drive,yes if it has full time 4wd it will grip better but will it stop any better it still has a brake on each wheel, how much off driving is done in these conditions anyway, ive managed to cope with 400hp and two wheel drive and kept it on the road and got in and out off gateways and across fields i cant see the problem like i say just cos your foot will go to the floor don't mean it has to all the time

  9. #159
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    All the 4 wheel drives i have had have been 2wd on the road and have been fine in slippery conditions, sugest you learn to drive,yes if it has full time 4wd it will grip better but will it stop any better it still has a brake on each wheel, how much off driving is done in these conditions anyway, ive managed to cope with 400hp and two wheel drive and kept it on the road and got in and out off gateways and across fields i cant see the problem like i say just cos your foot will go to the floor don't mean it has to all the time
    All I can say is that I have owned and extensively driven all kinds of mundane to exotic rear and front wheel drive cars, including Golf GTi, a Jaguar XK8, Fiat Panda [yes really and its for sale now!] Mitsubishi Shoguns, Isuzu Troopers, Audi Quattro and Q7, BMW's including the X5 and 5 series, various LR/RR and a couple of Land Cruisers. This includes every conceivable drive system. I know how to drive and which drives best and in which conditions thanks.

    What is your experience? Vauxhall/Opel Corsa and the pick-up?

    When I'm pulling the cattle box up the road in second gear, I don't want wheel spin up that steep bit. When I'm driving up that country road and hit wet leaves on the corner, I don't want the arse of the pick-up sliding around. Never get any hint of that in the full time 4x4's. They are designed as full time because they give a significant advantage in many and varied conditions and are particularly suitable for general farm use. That you cannot see this is, frankly, amazing, and points to a lack of experience with different vehicle types in challenging conditions.
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  10. #160
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    All I can say is that I have owned and extensively driven all kinds of mundane to exotic rear and front wheel drive cars, including Golf GTi, a Jaguar XK8, Fiat Panda [yes really and its for sale now!] Mitsubishi Shoguns, Isuzu Troopers, Audi Quattro and Q7, BMW's including the X5 and 5 series, various LR/RR and a couple of Land Cruisers. This includes every conceivable drive system. I know how to drive and which drives best and in which conditions thanks.

    What is your experience? Vauxhall/Opel Corsa and the pick-up?

    When I'm pulling the cattle box up the road in second gear, I don't want wheel spin up that steep bit. When I'm driving up that country road and hit wet leaves on the corner, I don't want the arse of the pick-up sliding around. Never get any hint of that in the full time 4x4's. They are designed as full time because they give a significant advantage in many and varied conditions and are particularly suitable for general farm use. That you cannot see this is, frankly, amazing, and points to a lack of experience with different vehicle types in challenging conditions.
    you can stick your little laughing chap where the sun dont shine
    As for my experience everything from motorbikes to six wheel drive lime speading outfits with duals all round to artics never had a pickup though

  11. #161
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    Re: New Defender

    Rear drive pickups can be driven just like a BMW saloon though, its almost comical, provided you are aware of how a rear drive car will behave and you don't have full mud plugging Goodriches on!

    Would never have expected a 2 tonne diesel burning truck to be such good fun to drive. Also, they are automatically more economical that way.

    Tell me, the Disco 4 and RR have some kind of automated what sort of surface am I driving on mode. How does this work and can it perform like a truck with 3 locking diffs?

  12. #162
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Rear drive pickups can be driven just like a BMW saloon though, its almost comical, provided you are aware of how a rear drive car will behave and you don't have full mud plugging Goodriches on!

    Would never have expected a 2 tonne diesel burning truck to be such good fun to drive. Also, they are automatically more economical that way.

    Tell me, the Disco 4 and RR have some kind of automated what sort of surface am I driving on mode. How does this work and can it perform like a truck with 3 locking diffs?
    Like a 1960's leaf sprung BMW, maybe. Things have improved just a bit since then in general, apart from pick-ups. Fun? We are talking about utility vehicles doing a job of work. It should not be 'fun'. It should be safe, efficient and predictable in all conditions and with all drivers with varying levels of experience. Certainly when on the road in day to day farm work.
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  13. #163
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    you can stick your little laughing chap where the sun dont shine
    As for my experience everything from motorbikes to six wheel drive lime speading outfits with duals all round to artics never had a pickup though
    I'm afraid the Duck is right. We have a ranger double cab (last of the old model) and a 10 year old Disco td5. Now the pickup is much faster in a straight line but on a damp twisty road it's not something you can push on with mainly because it's tail happy with very primitive suspension. The Disco by comparison is much safer and more composed. It's the same story with the cattle trailer on the back. The pickup is faster but is usually accompanied with lots of wheelspin at road junctions and hills. The Disco is a lot more boss of the job.

  14. #164
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Drillman View Post
    I'm afraid the Duck is right. We have a ranger double cab (last of the old model) and a 10 year old Disco td5. Now the pickup is much faster in a straight line but on a damp twisty road it's not something you can push on with mainly because it's tail happy with very primitive suspension. The Disco by comparison is much safer and more composed. It's the same story with the cattle trailer on the back. The pickup is faster but is usually accompanied with lots of wheelspin at road junctions and hills. The Disco is a lot more boss of the job.
    Is he ?
    He said that 2wd was crap didnt menton pickups, I did say that a landy in 4wd would grip better just that most off the time you don't need it, nothing for him to get clever about
    I did manage to get a load off lambs to the slughter house this morning with my crap trooper although the road up the hill was icy, don't you think that was good its a wonder I managed to get out the lane without a landrover isnt it, I think I should get some sort of prize and do you know the throttle pedal wasnt anywhere near the floor bloody marvellous I think.

  15. #165
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    I've got a Trooper at the bottom of my yard that did around 150,000 miles before being scrapped. A long wheelbase Citation, top of the range model. Bought new. So I know that the Trooper tows exceptionally well, but not up icy roads while towing in 2wd. The great thing about the Trooper is that it is one of very few vehicles to have synchromesh on its high range in the transfer box, so it can shift from low to high on the fly, which is something that just cannot be done with their latest pick-ups or any other that I'm aware of apart from LR/RR with a bit of practice.

    As far as the Ford pick-up goes, I've just had a failed rear leaf spring changed this very day. Never had that with the LR 110. I'll forgive the Ranger this once though, because it has far better body control and steering when laden with a ton load in the back compared to the coil sprung LR. Apart from that the LR suspension is miles ahead, the same as its full-time 4wd.

    As a supplementary aside, I did mention that the LR/RR products were the only ones to have an open centre diff in low range. A huge advantage to those that work these things as intended. I forgot that Mercedes also have this feature and have had it since 1999 when the first generation ML class was introduced. The latest ML don't have a two speed transfer box as standard though, which is a pity for farm use but partly mitigated by the almost universal fitment of their seven speed automatic gearbox and down-hill slip control. [I'm not a fan of that particular feature in either LR/RR or Mercedes on steep slippery grassland].
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  16. #166
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Drillman View Post
    I'm afraid the Duck is right. We have a ranger double cab (last of the old model) and a 10 year old Disco td5. Now the pickup is much faster in a straight line but on a damp twisty road it's not something you can push on with mainly because it's tail happy with very primitive suspension. The Disco by comparison is much safer and more composed. It's the same story with the cattle trailer on the back. The pickup is faster but is usually accompanied with lots of wheelspin at road junctions and hills. The Disco is a lot more boss of the job.
    Anyone with any real experience of both types of vehicle will not need telling this. It is just so obviously true.
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  17. #167
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Anyone with any real experience of both types of vehicle will not need telling this. It is just so obviously true.
    I didn't need telling as I have told you, But as you seem to know it all you must be right

  18. #168
    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    I've got a Trooper at the bottom of my yard that did around 150,000 miles before being scrapped. A long wheelbase Citation, top of the range model. Bought new. So I know that the Trooper tows exceptionally well, but not up icy roads while towing in 2wd. The great thing about the Trooper is that it is one of very few vehicles to have synchromesh on its high range in the transfer box, so it can shift from low to high on the fly, which is something that just cannot be done with their latest pick-ups or any other that I'm aware of apart from LR/RR with a bit of practice.

    As far as the Ford pick-up goes, I've just had a failed rear leaf spring changed this very day. Never had that with the LR 110. I'll forgive the Ranger this once though, because it has far better body control and steering when laden with a ton load in the back compared to the coil sprung LR. Apart from that the LR suspension is miles ahead, the same as its full-time 4wd.

    As a supplementary aside, I did mention that the LR/RR products were the only ones to have an open centre diff in low range. A huge advantage to those that work these things as intended. I forgot that Mercedes also have this feature and have had it since 1999 when the first generation ML class was introduced. The latest ML don't have a two speed transfer box as standard though, which is a pity for farm use but partly mitigated by the almost universal fitment of their seven speed automatic gearbox and down-hill slip control. [I'm not a fan of that particular feature in either LR/RR or Mercedes on steep slippery grassland].
    Seem to remember being able to change from low to high box on the move in my old fourtrak but I don't know if it was synchro but then nor was the old leyland bison i use to drive and i could change gear in that to, without the clutch, I can drive you know and I can get up an icy road with my trooper i know this cos I did bloody good that as its crap

  19. #169
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    Re: New Defender

    On the topic of the Defender, own up, who did this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-lighting.html

  20. #170
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    Re: New Defender

    You'll never get that dead ewe smell out of that white leather and where's the dog gonna sit?

  21. #171
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    Re: New Defender

    The AA badge on the Queens bumper

    Do you think one would really need to call them if it broke down?
    Last edited by MC130; 15-01-14 at 07:25 AM.

  22. #172
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Loftyrules View Post
    On the topic of the Defender, own up, who did this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-lighting.html
    Have a look at the queens wheels in the photo.

    What the hell is sticking out of the front wheels.

  23. #173
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Yale View Post
    Have a look at the queens wheels in the photo.

    What the hell is sticking out of the front wheels.
    These - perhaps ?

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fold-Down-...-/400569830021


  24. #174
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Yale View Post
    Have a look at the queens wheels in the photo.

    What the hell is sticking out of the front wheels.
    Something for chopping the legs off the peasants as she drives by, Ben Hur style

  25. #175
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    Re: New Defender

    Windows 8 combined with a defender ...must be some kind of masochist !

  26. #176
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Is he ?
    He said that 2wd was crap didnt menton pickups, I did say that a landy in 4wd would grip better just that most off the time you don't need it, nothing for him to get clever about
    I did manage to get a load off lambs to the slughter house this morning with my crap trooper although the road up the hill was icy, don't you think that was good its a wonder I managed to get out the lane without a landrover isnt it, I think I should get some sort of prize and do you know the throttle pedal wasnt anywhere near the floor bloody marvellous I think.
    I'm just saying it as I see it. I've only ran permanent 4wds until very recently. A change of circumstances made The purchase of a double cab with selectable 4wd a more sensible option. It's a good truck and is very useful but is has made me realise just how good the 4wd system on the land rovers are, especially when towing. The double cab is without doubt a capable tow motor but on the roads round here there will be circumstances where a stop to engage 4wd will be needed especially uphill. The disco although much older and less powerful copes with the hills easily. By hills I mean 1 in 5's often with patches of rain washed gravel on them. With 3 ton plus on a 3 axle cattle box on the back the last thing I need is to spin out.

  27. #177
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Drillman View Post
    I'm just saying it as I see it. I've only ran permanent 4wds until very recently. A change of circumstances made The purchase of a double cab with selectable 4wd a more sensible option. It's a good truck and is very useful but is has made me realise just how good the 4wd system on the land rovers are, especially when towing. The double cab is without doubt a capable tow motor but on the roads round here there will be circumstances where a stop to engage 4wd will be needed especially uphill. The disco although much older and less powerful copes with the hills easily. By hills I mean 1 in 5's often with patches of rain washed gravel on them. With 3 ton plus on a 3 axle cattle box on the back the last thing I need is to spin out.
    I'd go along with that. I recently changed from Defender to pickup and I have to say that the permanent 4wd on LRs is a very good system. Driving around with just the pickup isn't a problem but when you have the trailer there are occasions when you wish you were already in 4wd. Also changing from high to low and vice versa can take ages.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

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    Re: New Defender

    With the Isuzu at least you can go in and out of 4wd at the flick of a switch - without stopping - but it does say under 50mph.
    Usually it goes in almost immediately but you have to ease off power before it comes out.

    I've never needed low range on a hill, other than very rarely just to set off from a steep spot.
    If you knew there was one that bad you could go in low box before as the upper gears in low overlap the high box.
    You do have to stop to get in and out of Low but then landrovers are a very clunky with that too.

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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    With the Isuzu at least you can go in and out of 4wd at the flick of a switch - without stopping - but it does say under 50mph.
    Usually it goes in almost immediately but you have to ease off power before it comes out.

    I've never needed low range on a hill, other than very rarely just to set off from a steep spot.
    If you knew there was one that bad you could go in low box before as the upper gears in low overlap the high box.
    You do have to stop to get in and out of Low but then landrovers are a very clunky with that too.
    The Isuzu will go in and out of 4wd at a touch of a button but doesn't like doing so under pressure i.e. if one wheel is already spinning. As for the high/low problem I'd gladly swap 6th gear for a crawler gear below 1st. Would be very handy for hill starts with a trailer.
    Come and stay in the Welsh hills, http://www.holidaycambriancoast.co.uk/

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