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Thread: New Defender

  1. #31
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    Re: New Defender

    Before you slag off defender safety anymore read the article in the link http://www.roverparts.com/News/Archive/cliffdiver.cfm took bit of finding but I remember this happening. Yet to find a vehicle that will do what the landy will do up here, might be alright to have something else down in the valleys etc but nothing outperforms the defender up here I'm afraid

  2. #32
    Senior Member Nithsdale Farmer's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post

    That article is a year old now - im sure i hear a couple months back that the Defender replacement has now been ditched? I like the Defender, treat her like shit and she just keeps going - reliability has never been an issue for us. 19 year old and still going strong. IMO the cheaper manufacturers - Kia for instance - are a better buy for a farm jeep towing 3.5tonnes compared to Mitsu or Toyota.
    If in doubt, yank it out!

  3. #33
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    We used to almost depend on a defender but quad bikes took away a lot of the little jobs it did round the farm, then along come the more car-like pickups which are perfectly OK for towing + lighter off-road - and now do not 'need' a car as well as the landrover because it's a ridiculous uncomfortable and thirsty thing to go far in.

  4. #34
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    We used to almost depend on a defender but quad bikes took away a lot of the little jobs it did round the farm, then along come the more car-like pickups which are perfectly OK for towing + lighter off-road - and now do not 'need' a car as well as the landrover because it's a ridiculous uncomfortable and thirsty thing to go far in.
    Also worth noting that a landy is far more expensive. 2013 prices for 1953 technology??
    Also the dealers of these overrated biscuit boxes are so far up their own arse its untrue. Only interested in selling to the Chelsea tractor brigade. Was looking at a new landy, dressed in work clothes (and before you bastards start they were clean on and I didn't smell!) well hit me with a feather and call me Nigel but I was thrown out of the showroom, lowering the tone. Bastards I could buy their shity garage twice over. So we'll added shit customer service to the list.

  5. #35
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Rings a bell, Last one we bought they refused to take a cheque too - really annoying to be told that the day you go to pick it up
    That was Stratstones but it changes owners every other year.
    Time was they'd have sent an invoice a few weeks later, same as when you buy a tractor worth twice as much as the the over-rated tin boxes they are selling.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Also worth noting that a landy is far more expensive. 2013 prices for 1953 technology??
    Also the dealers of these overrated biscuit boxes are so far up their own arse its untrue. Only interested in selling to the Chelsea tractor brigade. Was looking at a new landy, dressed in work clothes (and before you bastards start they were clean on and I didn't smell!) well hit me with a feather and call me Nigel but I was thrown out of the showroom, lowering the tone. Bastards I could buy their shity garage twice over. So we'll added shit customer service to the list.
    I agree with all of that, but it is 1983 technology in these things with a 1958 body design. We are lucky that their dealer in this part of the world is more rural-biassed and does sell a lot of Defender. A small proportion of the current market for such vehicles nowadays though. Their real advantage is their drivetrain, which is still just about the most suited to farm work. The body isn't bad in its utility either, but I can bash my Ford's panels as well as any Defender owner can.
    The Duck 2015

  7. #37
    Senior Member wr.'s Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    If Landrover had developed as much as agriculture in the last fifty years, I suspect we'd all be driving them. Sorry to say, I travel in my father in law's Landy and am glad to get out and stretch my legs.
    Don't itch for something if you're not prepared to scratch for it.

  8. #38
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by v12cat View Post
    Nail on the head.

    We get the chance to use defenders from time to time over the summer months, travelling back from clients farms and it never ceases to amaze me just how sloppy and downright dangerous a relatively new example of this supposedly robust vehicle can be. As for driver comfort, well it's got what could loosely be described as weather protection and that's about it. I spent my youth messing around with and playing with these things, strenuously defending them against friends with 'lesser' vehicles. I hold my hand up, I was wrong! They were, and still are pitiful and will not be missed one bit by me. Hopefully LR will replace them with something worthy of their status.
    I doubt they'll replace it with anything. The vast majority of their income comes from the luxury car market.

  9. #39
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Also worth noting that a landy is far more expensive. 2013 prices for 1953 technology??
    Also the dealers of these overrated biscuit boxes are so far up their own arse its untrue. Only interested in selling to the Chelsea tractor brigade. Was looking at a new landy, dressed in work clothes (and before you bastards start they were clean on and I didn't smell!) well hit me with a feather and call me Nigel but I was thrown out of the showroom, lowering the tone. Bastards I could buy their shity garage twice over. So we'll added shit customer service to the list.
    Perhaps your sunny personality failed to win them over? I can't think why.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Clive Tee's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by BMEH View Post
    Our TD5 has come to the end of its time with us as being a front line machine has become too much for it.

    We are quite loyal landrover fans and will probably replace it with a 2008ish 90 however we are not massive fans of the even smaller cab space (leg room/cramped) in the 2.4 defenders. Or the cost.

    With a budget of 10,000-15,000 what would you replace it with?

    We spend a lot of time towing cattle with a 14ft tri axle Ifor and general running around, not a lot of off roaring other than pulling into gates to drop animals off. We get in with our willies on etc and don't know if anything else will stand it inside.

    Not a massive fan of pick ups, especially since so few are rated to 3500kg, but could be converted.

    any advice or comments welcome!
    Go for a 90 van/hardtop, a lot more leg-room. Don't know how anyone drives one of the pickup versions. I'm only 5'9" and find it short of space. You might get one the newer 2.2's for the top of your budget. I've got one and very pleased with it. Can't say any better than the 2.4 though, about the same.

    I definitely wouldn't have one without aircon though. Because of the dash, they're missing those flaps so the only air you can get is the windows, really makes a difference on hot days when we get them!
    Clive Tee

  11. #41
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Yep. Just what I thought. It looks precisely like the kind of thing I would not want to buy to put on my farm.

  12. #42
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    Re: New Defender

    Face the facts, the new Defender MUST be sold to more people than just a few irate farmers who won't pay the going rate for it anyway, otherwise it will be a commercial flop and will end its life prematurely. It is an abortion of a vehicle as it stands and it MUST go through a comprehensive redesign from the wheels up. Unlike tight assed farmers the actual buyers of trendy offer roaders WANT comfort, luxury, safety, parking sensors, reversing cameras, suspension settings, driving modes, steering headlights and so on...

    This vehicle WILL NOT be designed for you miserable sods who only go and buy Jap pickups or trucks with all of the above regardless.

    It is a complete myth that no other vehicle can off road like a Defender. How the heck do you think the German, Austrian, Australian, American etc etc rural dwellers or armed forces cope?? At the end of the day it all comes down to axle articulation, drive train and tyres- even a Porsche Cayenne can be off-roaded, why else did Porsche choose to have them extensively tested in the middle east and Africa, do you think some rover engineers in 1950 know something that German engineers in 2012 don't?

    Rose tinted specs need to be removed and discarded. Don't let a legend fool you.

    It is my sincerest hope that the new Defender will look more like the concept and will find a million buyers from London none of whom ever off road the thing.

  13. #43
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    Re: New Defender

    You know Mayo, you really are a tool of epic proportions.

  14. #44
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    Re: New Defender

    it is a problem knowing what to get!! we have had hilux's which carry things around and tow trailers between different land, and discovery's to tow to market because of the higher towing weight limit and use as a car as well.
    There is no doubt about it that the Toyota's have been an asset to the business while the discovery's have been liability's! never had to tow a hilux home , done it many times for a discovery and our current one, one of the last td5 ironically chosen because they are meant to be more reliable than a discovery 3, has cost over 5000 to repair over the last 2 years!!

    I try to buy British, all my cars have been British built, but land rover never again! next vehicle will be a pickup that can tow 3.5 tons....legally

    my uncle has a rotting Daihatsu and he cant decide what to get instead of that either

  15. #45
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    You know Mayo, you really are a tool of epic proportions.


    +1
    If in doubt, yank it out!

  16. #46
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    You know Mayo, you really are a tool of epic proportions.
    I'm in training, my hope is to one day achieve the lofty heights of cockdom that you so easily achieved. I won't hold my breath mind, I'm not sure I can do it. Not least because I'd struggle to ever be as miserable as you. In conversation people tell me they find you to have virtually no personality and the social skills of a tree stump, I disagree vehemently; I say you have the disposition of a case of gas gangrene and are just as much fun.

    PS

    Hope you detest the new Defender. Sincerely hope you won't ever buy one. I hate seeing a brand ran into the ground. Have you thought about something more akin to your nature?

  17. #47
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    Re: New Defender

    The swb defender on its skinny little tires appear to be the choice for keepers and stockman on the hills/mountains of Scotland. They must be fair tools off road or they would not be used.

  18. #48
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    I'm in training, my hope is to one day achieve the lofty heights of cockdom that you so easily achieved. I won't hold my breath mind, I'm not sure I can do it. Not least because I'd struggle to ever be as miserable as you. In conversation people tell me they find you to have virtually no personality and the social skills of a tree stump, I disagree vehemently; I say you have the disposition of a case of gas gangrene and are just as much fun.

    PS

    Hope you detest the new Defender. Sincerely hope you won't ever buy one. I hate seeing a brand ran into the ground. Have you thought about something more akin to your nature?
    I don't know, have you ever thought about being a bit less of a prick?

    What you've said here isn't entirely without merit, is it really necessary to be quite such an arse about it though? Why do you always feel the need to adopt an unearned air of arrogant superiority on every given subject, and sneer at and belittle anyone who disagrees with you? Do you think it helps to bring people round to your way of thinking?

  19. #49
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Face the facts, the new Defender MUST be sold to more people than just a few irate farmers who won't pay the going rate for it anyway, otherwise it will be a commercial flop and will end its life prematurely. It is an abortion of a vehicle as it stands and it MUST go through a comprehensive redesign from the wheels up. Unlike tight assed farmers the actual buyers of trendy offer roaders WANT comfort, luxury, safety, parking sensors, reversing cameras, suspension settings, driving modes, steering headlights and so on...

    This vehicle WILL NOT be designed for you miserable sods who only go and buy Jap pickups or trucks with all of the above regardless.

    It is a complete myth that no other vehicle can off road like a Defender. How the heck do you think the German, Austrian, Australian, American etc etc rural dwellers or armed forces cope?? At the end of the day it all comes down to axle articulation, drive train and tyres- even a Porsche Cayenne can be off-roaded, why else did Porsche choose to have them extensively tested in the middle east and Africa, do you think some rover engineers in 1950 know something that German engineers in 2012 don't?

    Rose tinted specs need to be removed and discarded. Don't let a legend fool you.

    It is my sincerest hope that the new Defender will look more like the concept and will find a million buyers from London none of whom ever off road the thing.
    This.

    Loads of money in selling stupid off roaders to people that don't need them. It would be nice to think that JLR could engineer a new Defender that could be utilitarian and fancy pants. They almost certainly could do it.
    Reach for the sky, climb every mountain higher.

  20. #50
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    Re: New Defender

    To digress slightly, after reading Cheoviethillfarmers link as above.
    2 Coastguard staff in a Landrover, reverse turning, after dark, on the top of an unprotected cliff.
    And one of them is too lazy or cozy to get out of the passenger seat, to guide his mate the Driver, safely back.
    Well doh!
    Coastguard should sack both of them.
    Marcus
    PS
    Could there be any hope that JLR, now being Tata? owned, would develop a working/4WD vehicle for the Indian sub-continent, which should be servicible enough and indeed cheap enough to sell to farmers worldwide.

  21. #51
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    I don't know, have you ever thought about being a bit less of a prick?

    What you've said here isn't entirely without merit, is it really necessary to be quite such an arse about it though? Why do you always feel the need to adopt an unearned air of arrogant superiority on every given subject, and sneer at and belittle anyone who disagrees with you? Do you think it helps to bring people round to your way of thinking?
    Its because:

    1. I don't give a $86k

    2. I know it REALLY pi%%es little queens like you off.

    Bring people around to my way of thinking? What are you smoking?!!!

    The day folk like you start agreeing with me is the day I leave this joint for good.

    You don't know me, you never will. Those that do, see my posts in a completely different light.

  22. #52
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Predial View Post
    This.

    Loads of money in selling stupid off roaders to people that don't need them. It would be nice to think that JLR could engineer a new Defender that could be utilitarian and fancy pants. They almost certainly could do it.
    They have done it for the Discovery, brought it up-market. It is now a mid-range luxury vehicle. JLR are doing what Ford and GM cannot do. They went up-market, like Audi did very successfully, as any Audi fan of any vintage can tell you.

    I certainly hope that the same model can be applied to the Defender. BMW managed it with Mini, what was one a quaint, cheap and pretty basic little car is now a very successful cult vehicle which is quality and certainly not cheap any longer.

    Jaguar are moving up their game, Land rover are too. I suspect Jaguar are actually selling more cars than they really want to at present, the aim will be to loft their brand up to where Porsche and co are, at which point, they can name their price.

    My point is, maybe LR don't want a Defender which farmers want to buy so they can abuse it.

  23. #53
    Senior Member v12cat's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Having a dig at a brand is one thing but do we really need the playground stuff?

  24. #54
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post

    My point is, maybe LR don't want a Defender which farmers want to buy so they can abuse it.
    good point well put. I wonder if there would be an kudos in having a vehicle that can be robust enough to appeal to the utilitarian market and having a version of it all dressed up for the MILFS to drive?

    Having a woeful reliability record doesn't seem to stop people queuing up to pay a small fortune for their cars, which to me is baffling.
    Reach for the sky, climb every mountain higher.

  25. #55
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by v12cat View Post
    Having a dig at a brand is one thing but do we really need the playground stuff?
    Apparently we do.

  26. #56
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    Re: New Defender

    Actually you need to look at their range again. You will see they don't need another mid range/luxury 4x4 with parking sensors, steering headlights and leather seats. They have the freelander, discovery and ranger over man dear. It would be such a shame to take a useful utility vehicle and redesign it to put it into the another category, leaving the utility gap to be filled by another car maker.

  27. #57
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    The day folk like you start agreeing with me is the day I leave this joint for good.
    How true, I couldn't agree more.

  28. #58
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    Actually you need to look at their range again. You will see they don't need another mid range/luxury 4x4 with parking sensors, steering headlights and leather seats. They have the freelander, discovery and ranger over man dear. It would be such a shame to take a useful utility vehicle and redesign it to put it into the another category, leaving the utility gap to be filled by another car maker.
    True, but how much do they actually make from a utility vehicle these days? The real money is in the luxury end of the car market, building 4x4s for people who don't actually need them but want them not for their off road capability but their value as a status symbol.

    The only thing is that the Land rover brand is built upon the reputation of the Defender as a rugged utility vehicle, whether they can maintain the charade when they no longer make them is another matter. I'm inclined to think though that if they were serious about making a replacement then there'd already be one in the pipeline, as it is they're simply going to carry on churning out defenders until they can't get them past the safety regs anymore then they might think about whether they will build something to fill the gap in their range at some point in the future. Perhaps, maybe.

    Mayo's actually right when he says that they could pull the trick that BMW did with the mini, take an iconic brand and make a desirable niche model with the essence of the original. It's far more likely to be aimed at lifestyle buyers than serious off road/ commercial users though.

  29. #59
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    Re: New Defender

    I think the only reason you can still get defenders is for the elite land owners can have one or two around the estate that they get in and drive about from time to time to pretend to be just like peasants running round in a sub standard vehicle with no luxuries. How can you expect a sales man to sell 3 or 4 range rovers a week where ten/twenty grand of extras is normal then have to bother with a working bloke looking for a good deal for a work van. There is the Santana to consider you can't say that's not like a defender.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

  30. #60
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
    Build quality on the later 2.2's has declined to criminal!
    +1
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