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Thread: New Defender

  1. #61
    Senior Member track marshall's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    what about one of these then?


  2. #62
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by track marshall View Post
    what about one of these then?

    Isn't that basically a series 3 land rover?

  3. #63
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender


  4. #64
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    Re: New Defender

    What landrover need to do is build something that can compete on equal terms with the Ford Ranger and Izuzu Dmax. Both these motors are capable of towing 3.5t legally Have enough seats to get the wife and kids in if needed and are plenty good enough off road for most folks needs. I've noticed that the electric boys are using Rangers now, and lets face it, they need to get to some pretty dicey spots at times in all weathers. If JLR cant compete on spec and price I cant see them bothering at all.

    Even the LR comics have gone quiet on the Defender replacement subject.

  5. #65
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    The Defenders do have a good point that with the increase in the value of scrap they still have a decent secondhand value!
    Last edited by LALANS; 14-12-13 at 08:28 PM.

  6. #66
    Senior Member wellington53's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    The Defenders do have a good point that with the increase in the value of scrap they have maintained a good secondhand value!
    Ouch!

  7. #67
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    I think the only reason you can still get defenders is for the elite land owners can have one or two around the estate that they get in and drive about from time to time to pretend to be just like peasants running round in a sub standard vehicle with no luxuries. How can you expect a sales man to sell 3 or 4 range rovers a week where ten/twenty grand of extras is normal then have to bother with a working bloke looking for a good deal for a work van. There is the Santana to consider you can't say that's not like a defender.
    Mercedes and Toyota manage to do so. So do Ford and almost all the pick-up majors apart from Isuzu who are not into cars.
    The best selling vehicle in North America is the Ford F150 pick-up. It is also their most profitable vehicle.
    The market for pick-ups and general utility vehicles is absolutely vast. They have to be sold competitively though and that means they have to be fairly simply designed, tough, economical to run and so on. But the market is so vast worldwide that there is probably a niche for a slightly premium utility vehicle to sell in volumes of 100,000 to 200,000 per year, which is where any new Defender has to be, not the 10,000 to 12,0000 volume of the current one.

    An utility vehicle should never be as profitable in real money as a Range Rover, but I can't see why it shouldn't yield near the same return on investment if done well and enthusiastically, not half-arsed.
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    Ceased long ago. I actually had a long test drive in one of the last Iveco-powered models and, I'm afraid, it was a drastic, desperately inadequate nasty vehicle, owing more to the archaic Land Rover Series3 than to the Defender. The steering was poor, the ride was appalling, the noise unbelievable and the build quality, disgusting.
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  9. #69
    Senior Member track marshall's Avatar
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  10. #70
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    Re: New Defender

    After seven defenders in about 25 yrs we finally bought an Isuzu pick up this year. The build quality and leg-room on the Defenders had gone beyond a joke. I'm really pleased with the Isuzu and only wish I'd taken the plunge years sooner.
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  11. #71
    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Mercedes and Toyota manage to do so. So do Ford.
    Hmm. Not sure mercedes get allot of cheap arse farmers in their fancy car show room, they do have a separate commercial showroom with difference sales men and no attendant in the toilets. Toyota sell far more small cars then premium 4x4. I think most people who buy new hilux would go to a specialist 4x4 dealer who would also sell navara pickups and isuzu rodeo rather than go to main dealer.

    Am I not right in the new discovery commercial is under 30k and not much more than a defender anyhoo. Has anyone priced one lately for a more accurate price? Still a step up from a defender or double cap pickup but you pay your money you take your choice.
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  12. #72
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    Hmm. Not sure mercedes get allot of cheap arse farmers in their fancy car show room, they do have a separate commercial showroom with difference sales men and no attendant in the toilets. Toyota sell far more small cars then premium 4x4. I think most people who buy new hilux would go to a specialist 4x4 dealer who would also sell navara pickups and isuzu rodeo rather than go to main dealer.

    Am I not right in the new discovery commercial is under 30k and not much more than a defender anyhoo. Has anyone priced one lately for a more accurate price? Still a step up from a defender or double cap pickup but you pay your money you take your choice.
    Mercedes do indeed have different showrooms for commercials, but that is not the point. The point being that they sell everything from the smallest car [barring Smart] under the same brand name with the same badge, from the A class to the S-Class to Actros and Unimog.
    Ford have different dealers sell commercials around here too. We have plenty of local car dealers and some that sell the pick-up, but it is Day's that actually covers most of South West Wales with Ford commercials and trucks and it is they that would do any complex warranty or repair work on the pick-up regardless of selling dealer.

    I did consider a Mercedes ML the last time I changed car but the dealers are on another planet. Not sure how they sell a single car really. They just didn't have a clue about the vehicle, didn't have one to show at the time, not interested in part exchange [offered to sell my Q7 at a 4x4 auction with me paying the transport even though they are part of a group that also retails Audi]
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  13. #73
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    Re: New Defender

    I don't know about the rest of you but I'd much rather buy my Defender / Pickup / Farm vehicle from a tractor dealership. I think the manufacturers are missing a trick here. I'm really surprised that none of them have thought of it.
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DBJ View Post
    I don't know about the rest of you but I'd much rather buy my Defender / Pickup / Farm vehicle from a tractor dealership. I think the manufacturers are missing a trick here. I'm really surprised that none of them have thought of it.
    Culverwells sell isuzu trucks and everyone is going on about pickups which are the obvious replacement for people who previously had 110s but there is no real replacement for the 90 bar the g wagon and they don't sell the poverty spec ones in this country pickups are far longer and more cumbersome in some circumstances

    Also if people are after truly utilitarian vehicle's there is a company importing the original landcruiser utes from oz

  15. #75
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by smiffy View Post
    but there is no real replacement for the 90 bar the g wagon and they don't sell the poverty spec ones in this country pickups are far longer and more cumbersome in some circumstances
    I agree but what most farmers around here do is buy a pickup and keep the old 90 to run on red. And on the point of 'poverty specs' I think all pickup manufacturers sell a basic spec but not many want to buy them. When it comes down to it we all prefer to have alloy wheel, air con and a built in hands free kit. I certainly did and haven't regretted it, it is 2013 after all.
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  16. #76
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DBJ View Post
    I agree but what most farmers around here do is buy a pickup and keep the old 90 to run on red. And on the point of 'poverty specs' I think all pickup manufacturers sell a basic spec but not many want to buy them. When it comes down to it we all prefer to have alloy wheel, air con and a built in hands free kit. I certainly did and haven't regretted it, it is 2013 after all.
    i know people like these things i just meant it would be nice to get a g wagon in this country more akin to the semi workman pickups rather than the 6.5 ltr amg that seems to be the only option in the uk

  17. #77
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    Re: New Defender

    No car manufacturer wants to sell poverty spec models and no one should buy them, either: they are usually worth a lot less when the time comes to move them on. If you want to save money when buying a car, then you can't go wrong by buying a second hand one or maybe an ex demonstrator. I could never bring myself to spend all that money on a brand new vehicle knowing I would run it into the ground.

    Understandably it is easy to grow concerned about the repair costs on second hand cars, particularly the bigger more complex models, however, many manufacturers and even many third parties now offer warranties for a sensible outlay for pre-owned cars, which could be a sensible option if you consider the huge amount of money saved when depreciation is taken out of the equation.

    With the variety of seat covers, footwell mats and boot liners etc you can get these days, it is no surprise more people are buying and using more serious metal for the farm work AND as a smart take the wife out vehicle. As such, to all those with MLs, range rover sports and Touregs etc I am most envious.

  18. #78
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    With the variety of seat covers, footwell mats and boot liners etc you can get these days, it is no surprise more people are buying and using more serious metal for the farm work AND as a smart take the wife out vehicle. As such, to all those with MLs, range rover sports and Touregs etc I am most envious.

    I don't mean to be rude, but I just can't find any other way to say this - you clearly don't have a clue what manner of dusts from meal, shit, earth, grass seed and stone lanes grace the whole interior of our '90' from front to rear, dash, steering column, gear box, doors, windows, ceiling, as well as fairly strong odours from dripping wormer guns, diesel drums, the dog, a scouring calf (spending a few hours in the back with an IV bag tied to the handles above the back door), bale wrap... I could go on almost indefinitely. Its a farm for crying out loud! No place for a nice jeep. Perhaps consultants get away with taking a little bit of mud on the sole of their boot into a fancy jeep, but if you think that is anything like farm work... well...

    Honestly. Are you serious?

  19. #79
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    Re: New Defender

    Personnally, there's no way i'd be spending £20+k on a 4x4 to use around the farm. Just couldnt cope with it being filled with cow sh1t or bent around a gatepost.


    Buy 2 or 3 couple of £grand workhorses and a 15k *CAR* to run to the shops in surely?

  20. #80
    Senior Member v12cat's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
    Personnally, there's no way i'd be spending £20+k on a 4x4 to use around the farm. Just couldnt cope with it being filled with cow sh1t or bent around a gatepost.


    Buy 2 or 3 couple of £grand workhorses and a 15k *CAR* to run to the shops in surely?
    I agree entirely. After driving tractors, diggers, choppers etc all day I do NOT want to go out in anything that either contains the remnants of the days activities or drives in a similar manner to the days ride.

    My choice is a cheap Pajero for work, which is comfortable even if work includes distance, and a car that no 4x4 gets even close to.

  21. #81
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by v12cat View Post
    I agree entirely. After driving tractors, diggers, choppers etc all day I do NOT want to go out in anything that either contains the remnants of the days activities or drives in a similar manner to the days ride.

    My choice is a cheap Pajero for work, which is comfortable even if work includes distance, and a car that no 4x4 gets even close to.
    Same here, 90% of my driving time is in either a 1998 '90 or a 1997 '130 then I've a car for going out. Every body's needs are different though and a double cab can be a good compromise if you only want to run one vehicle. Whether land rover can replace the defender with something for the farmer/utility company is another story, but I don't have much hope as they have pissed their market dominance up the wall and waited far too long to do something about it.

    What do I care though. I'll still be running my 300 tdi's after the dc100s are 10 year old

  22. #82
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    The whole point of a pickup is that you can keep the worst of the mucky stuff in the back surely?
    The basic idea of the landrover was that the same vehicle could be used to go to town and do a lot of jobs around the farm.

    These days not many farms don't need at least one extra vehicle not least because the many need additional income so someone needs to drive to work elsewhere.

    (esp.from 4:35) (Baling with a landrover )


  23. #83
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    Re: New Defender

    [QUOTE=4wd;210843]The whole point of a pickup is that you can keep the worst of the mucky stuff in the back surely?
    The basic idea of the landrover was that the same vehicle could be used to go to town and do a lot of jobs around the farm.

    These days not many farms don't need at least one extra vehicle not least because the many need additional income so someone needs to drive to work elsewhere.

    Think JLR are missing a crucial point about the defender. The Land Rover acts as a massive advert, showing a lifestyle that many with money aspire to
    and think by buying a RR/disco/freelander they are part of that . Take the defender away from the country estates and farms and that association,
    will dissappear leaving the cars to compete with some very good rivals

  24. #84
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    Re: New Defender

    You make an excellent point. In removing the heart of the landrover story, the defender, the other models could risk losing their identity. They are satellites that require a body with a kind of gravitational pull to keep them in orbit.

  25. #85
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by joe soapy View Post
    Think JLR are missing a crucial point about the defender. The Land Rover acts as a massive advert, showing a lifestyle that many with money aspire to
    and think by buying a RR/disco/freelander they are part of that . Take the defender away from the country estates and farms and that association,
    will dissappear leaving the cars to compete with some very good rivals
    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    You make an excellent point. In removing the heart of the landrover story, the defender, the other models could risk losing their identity. They are satellites that require a body with a kind of gravitational pull to keep them in orbit.


    +1 to this. The Defender (from its beginning, through the series models, 90-110 and Defender) has been voted many times over by the UK as the most iconic vehicle ever built, and something every other vehicle they have made has been built upon. Something i guess many car companies will be very envious. The replacement will have to have serious off-road capabilities and true ruggedness to maintain creditability and keep the LR-RR image 'right'.


    As for the comment earlier of using a double cab pickup as a work machine and as a car to take the wife out at night......... shes obviously easy pleased. To me thats no differant from wearing your wellies on a night out.
    If in doubt, yank it out!

  26. #86
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Yes very perceptive I hope they read this but too late anyway I fear.
    Mind such icons have a way of rising phoenix like after being declared dead.
    There's going to be a major industry in spare parts for decades.

  27. #87
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    Re: New Defender

    That is for sure. What you can bet is that a change of model will make loyal defender owners all the more determined to extend the life of their 'irreplaceable' machine.

  28. #88
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    That is for sure. What you can bet is that a change of model will make loyal defender owners all the more determined to extend the life of their 'irreplaceable' machine.
    Unless the new model is something far superior, which it needs to be and shouldn't be hard to achieve. In which case they will be queuing up in droves to upgrade.
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  29. #89
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    Re: New Defender

    They may well produce something far superior in many respects, and so they should be expected to. But if the internal surfaces are covered in cloth and it doesn't have a sealed three-sided well in the back for the commercial goods, then I probably wont want to know.

  30. #90
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: New Defender

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    They may well produce something far superior in many respects, and so they should be expected to. But if the internal surfaces are covered in cloth and it doesn't have a sealed three-sided well in the back for the commercial goods, then I probably wont want to know.
    Lot's of 'ifs'. The biggest 'if' of all is whether there will even be a commercial replacement.
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