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Thread: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

  1. #1
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    ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    had a look at one today with 7000 + hrs on 40k manual spools, few small gremlins, but are they really that scary?

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    No, if your good with the spanners they aren't that complex, factor in clutch pack repairs soon if they haven't been done, but otherwise good machine.

    But then on the other hand if u get a bad one you will wish you had never seen it, some can be very problematic and some are supposed to have been a great machine. We run NH's and I love them, our tm150 is a great tractor, but the 190's do have a reputation for some being crap!

  3. #3
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Only bother we had was electric injector pump after 2nd time it give up we put a mechanical pump in off a tm150 screwed it to 200hp and she,s been a animal ever sence!

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    The one I had would have bankrupted me if I had kept it any longer. My advise is there are enough risks in farming without spending good money on such a gamble.

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    alternative sugestions please, criteria to be met

    1. suspension

    2. no older than 10 yrs

    3. around 200hp

    4. front linkage & PTO

    5. under 20,000

  6. #6

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxum 125 View Post
    had a look at one today with 7000 + hrs on 40k manual spools, few small gremlins, but are they really that scary?
    I run 2 TM 190's both 06 reg ones,had one for a year and the other two ,bought the first one for more power for the big square baler after using it for a while I decided to sell my TM 155 and buy another, not had major problems the odd speed sensor a damper plate in the first one and a pwm valve in the second one to smooth out reverse gear ,before I jumped in with both feet and bought one i spent a lot of time reading about the problems and bought carefully,I was able to find a bit of history on one and the other I have known of for most of its life.
    I was advised not to buy a low houred tractor as it may have been sat at the dealers having problems sorted! later ones (05 onwards)came from the factory with lager oil coolers etc all fitted so have not been run whilst cooking the transmission and all the sensors and wiring loom etc.
    I would say that lwb tm's can be fantastic value for money but buy a workshop manual and be prepared to have a few niggles to sort .
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxum 125 View Post
    alternative sugestions please, criteria to be met

    1. suspension

    2. no older than 10 yrs

    3. around 200hp

    4. front linkage & PTO

    5. under 20,000
    Renault / Claas Ares 836 rz 200 hp ish be careful with worn front suspension,can be expensive to repair and pto clutch pack can be a bit weak but a nice place to spend a day!

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    thankyou norse they look a smart pair, may need to ask some advice in the future

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Tm 150 was yours more responsive with a mananical pump? the 190's ive driven so far seem a bit lazy compaired to the 155

  10. #10

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    The back one in the photo is an ultra,50k,5 electric spools,heated seat,full suspension etc good tyres, 7000 hrs came with weights on it now showing 8000 hrs had a damper plate , a speed sensor on the gearbox and a fan belt and idler pulley,the front one is an eco 40k ( 19 speed but only revs to 1850 revs in 19th ) came with front links and pto 710 & 600 tyres,4 mechanical spool valves full suspension,came with 5000 hrs now getting nearer to 6000 it had a brake master cylinder a pwm valve on reverse gear also a speed sensor and it is to get a damper plate soon as it rattles a bit.both are 06 reg with the standard non bar axle ( latest sort although bar axle was available as an option) and were within your budget ! but were bought at 'trade' price,they are not worked to the point of being on their knees but are worked quite hard with one being on the 4' x 3' hesston baler and the other pulling my vicon 2190 balepack combi baler/wrapper all summer so some long days and plenty of them without a lot of hassle,a lot of the niggles are error codes but to sort them you need to invest in a workshop manual,i bought mine on ebay for about 5 on cd rom.
    I would say buy as late a tractor as you can find to lessen the chance of hassle.

    Hope this helps Norse

  11. #11
    Senior Member prongy's Avatar
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by norse View Post
    The back one in the photo is an ultra,50k,5 electric spools,heated seat,full suspension etc good tyres, 7000 hrs came with weights on it now showing 8000 hrs had a damper plate , a speed sensor on the gearbox and a fan belt and idler pulley,the front one is an eco 40k ( 19 speed but only revs to 1850 revs in 19th ) came with front links and pto 710 & 600 tyres,4 mechanical spool valves full suspension,came with 5000 hrs now getting nearer to 6000 it had a brake master cylinder a pwm valve on reverse gear also a speed sensor and it is to get a damper plate soon as it rattles a bit.both are 06 reg with the standard non bar axle ( latest sort although bar axle was available as an option) and were within your budget ! but were bought at 'trade' price,they are not worked to the point of being on their knees but are worked quite hard with one being on the 4' x 3' hesston baler and the other pulling my vicon 2190 balepack combi baler/wrapper all summer so some long days and plenty of them without a lot of hassle,a lot of the niggles are error codes but to sort them you need to invest in a workshop manual,i bought mine on ebay for about 5 on cd rom.
    I would say buy as late a tractor as you can find to lessen the chance of hassle.

    Hope this helps Norse
    Does the 40k still have front axle brakes, air etc? 40-50k is only a software issue. You should be able to alter it in H3 if you wished.

    Pwm's, master cylinders were all on campaign changes on earlier models (03/4) time. So thought they would be near bombproof on later ones. I only had the (mis)fortune of looking after 10 early 175/90's. Some were ok and only got upgraded because CNH said so, others a nightmare. Drivers had a bit to do with it too. Surprising the problems they had when on farms surrounded by green ones.

  12. #12

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    [QUOTE=prongy;215239]Does the 40k still have front axle brakes, air etc? 40-50k is only a software issue. You should be able to alter it in H3 if you wished.

    Pwm's, master cylinders were all on campaign changes on earlier models (03/4) time. So thought they would be near bombproof on later ones. I only had the (mis)fortune of looking after 10 early 175/90's. Some were ok and only got upgraded because CNH said so, others a nightmare. Drivers had a bit to do with it too. Surprising the problems they had when on farms surrounded by green ones.

    No the 40k one does not have front brakes or air but the 50k one does not have air either! must have been an option when new? as for the pwm valve I fitted the later t7 type one with the filter on the end,transformed take up in reverse from sometimes smooth but mostly very sharp ans would spin wheels when using the shuttle or you tried to feather in using the pedal to a good smooth take up, brake cylinder just started to leak into the cab ,I bought these tractors expecting a few niggles someone mentioned earlier to factor in the cost of a clutch pack well yes if you run one long enough, but these are seriously cheap power! I would have to invest nearly twice as much money to buy something in another brand most of them having some problem or other like MF 6499 one of the kindest homes in the district had the rear diff fail at 2500 hrs ish (would not like that repair bill) and if i remember correctly same injector pump as lwb tm! other local 7530 needed a clutch pack at just over 2000 hrs another good home and not even a frontline tractor,I am not trying to start any sort of debate between drivers of any perticular makes but just passing in my experiance of owning buying and maintaining these tractors.

  13. #13
    Senior Member prongy's Avatar
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    [QUOTE=norse;215276]
    Quote Originally Posted by prongy View Post
    Does the 40k still have front axle brakes, air etc? 40-50k is only a software issue. You should be able to alter it in H3 if you wished.

    Pwm's, master cylinders were all on campaign changes on earlier models (03/4) time. So thought they would be near bombproof on later ones. I only had the (mis)fortune of looking after 10 early 175/90's. Some were ok and only got upgraded because CNH said so, others a nightmare. Drivers had a bit to do with it too. Surprising the problems they had when on farms surrounded by green ones.

    No the 40k one does not have front brakes or air but the 50k one does not have air either! must have been an option when new? as for the pwm valve I fitted the later t7 type one with the filter on the end,transformed take up in reverse from sometimes smooth but mostly very sharp ans would spin wheels when using the shuttle or you tried to feather in using the pedal to a good smooth take up, brake cylinder just started to leak into the cab ,I bought these tractors expecting a few niggles someone mentioned earlier to factor in the cost of a clutch pack well yes if you run one long enough, but these are seriously cheap power! I would have to invest nearly twice as much money to buy something in another brand most of them having some problem or other like MF 6499 one of the kindest homes in the district had the rear diff fail at 2500 hrs ish (would not like that repair bill) and if i remember correctly same injector pump as lwb tm! other local 7530 needed a clutch pack at just over 2000 hrs another good home and not even a frontline tractor,I am not trying to start any sort of debate between drivers of any perticular makes but just passing in my experiance of owning buying and maintaining these tractors.
    All the ones i looked after were 04 and older. All 50k, with air, solid wheels etc. Some Ultra's some not. At that time, front suspension, solid wheels and air were all standard on 50's. Things might have changed later as what we were being told were necessities were not being fitted by competitors. Valtra with bolted rims, Massey no air as examples.
    Master cylinders were changed to avert air ingress, from memory 3 of 'mine' were affected but all 10 changed. Lots of upgrades on early ones that yours will have. Fan harness looms, radiator caps, front prop bolts, fan belts ie lots of little things. Fuel pumps were a pain, TC8 and rough running. As you say JD, Massey etc all using the same pump.
    Only had 1 clutch pack give up. A 190 on a 5.5m cultipress where the 'driver' waas dropping it in stationary, revving full out then releasing the clutch. Burnt out the medium range pack, gears 7-12. The difference between Range and Power commands. Range master clutches are at the front of the box (A-B) instead of Power's who use the range packs at the back of the box instead. That is why the A-B packs have 2 less plates in on Power commands.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Gerbert's Avatar
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    What is the difference between range and power command?
    Also, the 40k eco option, is that still an option on the t7/puma? My boss was looking at another puma with 50k box but he didn't like buying the whole pakage that 50k is part of (came at ~10k).

  15. #15
    Senior Member prongy's Avatar
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbert View Post
    What is the difference between range and power command?
    Also, the 40k eco option, is that still an option on the t7/puma? My boss was looking at another puma with 50k box but he didn't like buying the whole pakage that 50k is part of (came at ~10k).
    Range command is 5 clutch packs giving 6 gears. Three ranges and reverse selected via gears/synchronizer's. 3x6=18 forward 6 reverse.
    Power command is 5 clutch packs giving 6 gears. Three ranges and reverse selected via 4 more clutch packs.
    19th gear in all models is a seperate clutch pack in the rear axle, so independant of the rest of the box. Driven via the pto shaft and the pinion gear.

    According to the CNH website the eco versions are still available. A salesman might know if different.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Gerbert's Avatar
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Excuse my ignorance but I don't really get the difference, both 18+6? Is there any difference in controls?

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerbert View Post
    Excuse my ignorance but I don't really get the difference, both 18+6? Is there any difference in controls?
    Both either 18x6 or 19x6.

    Controls essentially the same, a few extra features on Power Commands.

    Range Command has electro hydraulic syncro changes of range/direction. Hence Semi powershift 5/6 clutch packs. 18/19 gears
    Power Command has clutch pack changes for all gears/direction. Hence Full powershift and 9/10 clutch packs. 18/19 gears

    Power command saps a little more power but in a T7 i doubt you will notice.

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    so is pc more reliable long term having no sycros?

  19. #19

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Range commands do smash the syncros out,

  20. #20
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by derv doctor View Post
    Range commands do smash the syncros out,
    Used to, on 03/04 age TM's. Later ones better not heard of any issues in T6/7.

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by him View Post
    so is pc more reliable long term having no sycros?
    In TM then probably. Also able to handle more power than Range Command. Hence it being the only box available in 175/190's.
    Might have seen/tuned some Power command 155's to very silly numbers with no problems from the box. They certainly had a better power to weight ratio than the long wheelbase's

  22. #22

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Just bought a 2001-2 rc tm150, having the b-c syncro done before we get it. The new ones upgraded? And I think there is a upgrade to the control valve to?

  23. #23

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by derv doctor View Post
    Just bought a 2001-2 rc tm150, having the b-c syncro done before we get it. The new ones upgraded? And I think there is a upgrade to the control valve to?
    I was told by a new holland mechanic that the 60 series synchros were a lot more durable than the ealier tm's due to the accounting department sourcing a cheaper type of synchro that had plastic spacer/thrust washers in it instead of metal ones ,thus the upgraded one fitted to the newer tm's was actually the older better one!
    The other mod was a restrictor to slow down the oil flow and therefore the action of the selector inside the transmission to give the synchro an easier time.
    Last edited by norse; 14-01-14 at 12:47 AM.

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by norse View Post
    I was told by a new holland mechanic that the 60 series synchros were a lot more durable than the ealier tm's due to the accounting department sourcing a cheaper type of synchro that had plastic spacer/thrust washers in it instead of metal ones ,thus the upgraded one fitted to the newer tm's was actually the older better one!
    The other mod was a restrictor to slow down the oil flow and therefore the action of the selector inside the transmission to give the synchro an easier time.
    I thought it didn't effect the grey chassis tm's.Is it not from when the numbers changed to 120,130,140 and 155,i don't recall the 125,135 and 150 having the synchro issue.(as bad anyway)

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    so how do you tell if the damper plate is on the way out? rattley noise?

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxum 125 View Post
    so how do you tell if the damper plate is on the way out? rattley noise?
    I bought a tm 125 lately and its on the way out,when you turn it off ,you can hear a nuk nuk sound from it.

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    We have a 55reg TM 190 & it's a good one

  28. #28

    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxum 125 View Post
    so how do you tell if the damper plate is on the way out? rattley noise?
    As already said the rattle when the engine comes to rest when you stop it and also on roadwork ,if you let revs drop right off in a high gear and the open the throttle up if you can hear a rattle in the transmission just as it is under load at low revs it will be the springs bottoming in the damper plate ,a lot cheaper done as a precaution than when you are busy.
    Mine went on TM155 Saturday 9pm in harvest time halfway on to a busy roundabout with hesston big baler on the back!

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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    I had a TM 190 04 and was a good tractor, a part from a new brake master cylinder and a PTO speed senser it was very reliable, it was 50k with braking front hubs, power command but no air brakes. Cheap horse power.

  30. #30
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    Re: ok so tm 190 are they realy that bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxxum 125 View Post
    so how do you tell if the damper plate is on the way out? rattley noise?
    Others have mentioned the death rattle when stopping the engine, but they are very far gone by that time. Mine was done before Christmas because it made rattly and screechy noises when buck-raking on second and [worse] third cut silage. No rattle on stopping. It was, however, broken in that several of the coil springs had broken and one pair had fallen out altogether. It was repaired before it caused the tractor to actually break-down and was driven to the dealer to be repaired. In fact there was no hurry were it not for a transmission potentiometer failure, which was not related to the damper, and a loom needing replaced in the rear hitch control system. Cost about 2000 in all, not helped by the labour needed to partly remove the loader subframe.
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