Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 176

Thread: Somerset flooding

  1. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Northumbrialand
    Posts
    1,237

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    At one time, grips on hill ground were cleared/renewed very regularly. I can't remember anyone suggesting that they shot the water straight off and caused flooding lower down.
    In fact, as has already been pointed out by Dry rot, they allow the surrounding (often humose soils) to dry out, and they are thus able to contain water in the event of a downpour.
    Errr, down here action is being taken to fill them in.
    Pretty sure one of our Hexham friends on here has been doing it.
    gee

  2. #32
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Scottish Borders
    Posts
    993

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Errr, down here action is being taken to fill them in.
    Pretty sure one of our Hexham friends on here has been doing it.
    gee
    But presumably he's sold his sole for a potage of gold. Or he thinks there's a risk of lambs drowning

    Another benefit of grips is that they were normally put in more across the slope rather than straight up and down, with obvious benefits.

  3. #33
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    North York Moors
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Somerset flooding

    http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2...mi-sparks-row/

    Haven't we all done something a bit like this, but because someone videoed it ....
    I do remember an incident with some hikers
    Someone wails on about how he might have made the bridge wet or something.

  4. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    413

    Re: Somerset flooding

    I'd have done that!

  5. #35
    Senior Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    East Devon
    Posts
    792

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Lucky he didn't do any damage to the tractor....given the speed he drove through it.

    And if people think Tractors are "invincible" in floodwater...then think again.
    Locally a farmer had a lorry in to pick up cattle, the lorry left for the abattoir & soon got stuck/stranded in a flooded road. Farmer gets out the biggest tractor he can find, JD 6930 on very wide tyres, and the flood water picked this tractor up & washed it up against the hedge as if it were a dinky toy !

  6. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    611

    Re: Somerset flooding

    The trouble with afforesting the uplands to absorb excessive rainwater is that trees won't grow if their roots are in water. The old idea was to plough big single furrows parallel, or almost, to the contours and then plant on the ridge. Of course, these acted as drains and accelerated run off. The current brilliant idea is to dig small pits and plant on the mound of soil removed. I can't see that holding back much water either, frankly, but I suppose the boffins have done studies. Peat and moss will absorb water and release it slowly (so leave well alone), but that doesn't give the civil servants anything to do so won't be popular! They do like to be seen to actually be doing something, even if it is the wrong thing.

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Glamorgan
    Posts
    1,914

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Was just on countryfile now, about farmer in middle of it - very sad -think he had to sell cattle as water was encroaching even further and deeper, and not good for forcast this week???

  8. #38
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ruthin ,Denbighshire,N Wales
    Posts
    1,058

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Rot View Post
    The trouble with afforesting the uplands to absorb excessive rainwater is that trees won't grow if their roots are in water. The old idea was to plough big single furrows parallel, or almost, to the contours and then plant on the ridge. Of course, these acted as drains and accelerated run off. The current brilliant idea is to dig small pits and plant on the mound of soil removed. I can't see that holding back much water either, frankly, but I suppose the boffins have done studies. Peat and moss will absorb water and release it slowly (so leave well alone), but that doesn't give the civil servants anything to do so won't be popular! They do like to be seen to actually be doing something, even if it is the wrong thing.
    http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FRMG0...land4Water.pdf
    Although there is evidence of a forest impact on flood flows at a local level (<100 km
    2)
    and for smaller flood events, forest hydrology studies in the UK and world-wide generally
    provide little support for a significant effect on extreme flood flows at a wider landscape
    level. However, it is difficult to draw a definitive conclusion from such work due to the
    limited data records in relation to the rarity of extreme flood events, the contrasting
    local effects of different forestry practices on flood run-off, problems with upscaling local
    field based measurements, and the difficulty of isolating a forestry effect from the mix of
    land uses and activities present within larger catchments. Future research needs to try
    and clarify the impact of forestry across the full spectrum of flood flows.
    page 47
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  9. #39
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Lincolnshire Wolds
    Posts
    81

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Well not Somerset, but Lincolnshire fens are in places below sea level. The River Witham, one of the main arteries has not been dredged properly since the 1930,s. The drains and rivers to the southeast of Horncastle towards Boston were developed by Dutchmen and Sir Joseph Banks whose estate around Revesby stretched out into the fens, some of the most productive,(three crop Land) in the country. My father sits on one of the boards and is very knowledgeable about drainage, and very practical but with all the councillors and hangers on on the board practicality goes out the window!! Horncastle has been flooded twice in recent years and part, if not all of the problem, is that the water can not get away due to the river Bain being 2/3 choked by silt and reed! As YFC members we used to raftrace down a section in the summer, now i doubt if you could get a raft to float!!
    LR

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    611

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by LINCS RED View Post
    Well not Somerset, but Lincolnshire fens are in places below sea level. The River Witham, one of the main arteries has not been dredged properly since the 1930,s. The drains and rivers to the southeast of Horncastle towards Boston were developed by Dutchmen and Sir Joseph Banks whose estate around Revesby stretched out into the fens, some of the most productive,(three crop Land) in the country. My father sits on one of the boards and is very knowledgeable about drainage, and very practical but with all the councillors and hangers on on the board practicality goes out the window!! Horncastle has been flooded twice in recent years and part, if not all of the problem, is that the water can not get away due to the river Bain being 2/3 choked by silt and reed! As YFC members we used to raftrace down a section in the summer, now i doubt if you could get a raft to float!!
    LR
    What happened here was a field was re-seeded (it might equally have been fertilised to increase production) but the ditches neglected (or cleaned according to a "cleaning cycle" but not to common sense) so the soil became water logged and the fertiliser was dissolved out to leach into the ditches stimulating excessive weed growth which choked the ditches even more.

    Isn't it this low lying land that is often the most productive so gets more fertiliser to make up for losses during flooding? So the same old cycle is repeated? But I doubt if DEFRA/EA/RPID would manage to follow the logic.

  11. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    South Staffs
    Posts
    606

  12. #42
    Senior Member matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cornwall, SW
    Posts
    647

    Re: Somerset flooding

    I bet there isn't a link to that website on the official EA one.

  13. #43
    Senior Member matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cornwall, SW
    Posts
    647

    Re: Somerset flooding

    An interesting bit of background to how Somerset came to be 'washed' - flooded to you and me.

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84683

    Seems like these environmental 'washlands' were a deliberate act to reduce intensive agriculture, increase bio-diversity and protect towns. Pity no one told the residents of the Levels.

  14. #44
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    North York Moors
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Can we push that link elsewhere without being made look silly?
    I mean, does it seem more or less correct.
    If so it's a damning indictment.

  15. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    208

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    Can we push that link elsewhere without being made look silly?
    I mean, does it seem more or less correct.
    If so it's a damning indictment.

    I think it is more or less correct but wonder how much British government was involved with the EU directives as this document going back to 1997 was already pushing in the direction of not dredging and changing to wilderness

    http://www.naturalareas.naturalengla...aProfile85.pdf

  16. #46
    Senior Member Mog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Up in the hills north of Abergavenny
    Posts
    365

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by renewablejohn View Post
    I think it is more or less correct but wonder how much British government was involved with the EU directives as this document going back to 1997 was already pushing in the direction of not dredging and changing to wilderness

    http://www.naturalareas.naturalengla...aProfile85.pdf

    You can be sure that as one of the top net contributors to the EU the UK has a huge influence on what new laws get debated and ratified. Whenever a law comes out of Europe that the UK government is seen to "gold plate", is a sure bet that the idea for that law was originally put forward by UK interests. What a wonderful scapegoat it is though to be then able to shrug your shoulders as a government and point the finger at the EU.

  17. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    208

    Re: Somerset flooding

    I find its normally laws which would prove difficult to get through the House of Lords that follow the Euro rubber stamp route.

  18. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Glamorgan
    Posts
    1,914

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Anyone meet HRH Prince Charles yesterday?

  19. #49
    Senior Member matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cornwall, SW
    Posts
    647

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    Can we push that link elsewhere without being made look silly?
    I mean, does it seem more or less correct.
    If so it's a damning indictment.
    It certainly is ....

    More here:

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84687

    As Richard says, Owen Paterson is a decade too late...

  20. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,106

    Re: Somerset flooding

    The Farmers cannot be blamed for South coat damage today. Makes localised inland flooding look a lot less dramatic IMO. Rail spokesman indicated it would take at least 6 weeks to repair the main line to Cornwall.

  21. #51
    Senior Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    East Devon
    Posts
    792

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    The Farmers cannot be blamed for South coat damage today. Makes localised inland flooding look a lot less dramatic IMO. Rail spokesman indicated it would take at least 6 weeks to repair the main line to Cornwall.
    6 months will probably be nearer the truth.

    As for the coastal flooding & structural damage ?
    When you see how close to the sea some of these houses etc are...is it really that surprising ?
    And I'm afraid I did get a little bit hacked off when BBC Spotlight seemed to be featuring one particular Cafe owner who seemed to be complaining that her cafe, LOCATED ALMOST RIGHT ON THE BEECH, had been damaged twice in a week ! It's a bit like the couple that buy the idyllic "Mill house beside the Leat" in high summer when everything is wonderful....then moan like hell to the council etc that the place is under water in the Winter.

    I'm afraid that this is in no way the same as the awful situation now faced by people in Somerset, and probably soon to be followed by villages elsewhere, where by inland flooding is a direct result of silted up rivers & the over development of area's where hundreds of acres of soil (farmland) is replaced by roofs, tarmac & concrete. And in some cases "so called" flood relief schemes have been designed to do exactly the opposite - they hold water back to prevent flooding in major city's & actually cause flooding in other area's
    The River systems & flood-plains in this country were not "cut out" to cope with the shear volume of water that is now hitting them at an ever increasing speed !

    And yes, I know we are experiencing prolonged periods of heavy rain & strong winds...but has this not always been the case ? How do we know that these sorts of weather patterns didn't happen 300 years ago ?

    This current spell of weather & the situations with flooding etc is the big wake up call the Environment Agency & politicians have needed for decades...hopefully they will now get off their backsides & do something about it !

  22. #52
    Senior Member andybk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Mendips Somerset
    Posts
    322

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    6 months will probably be nearer the truth.



    This current spell of weather & the situations with flooding etc is the big wake up call the Environment Agency & politicians have needed for decades...hopefully they will now get off their backsides & do something about it !

    wish that was true , but the sun will come out at some point , and to the nation (except those affected ) will be a distant memory , RSPB , and all the other nature interested parties will swing their lobbying back into action , and once again stale mate ,(which is what they want ) till the next time . SFP is being directed more towards pillar 2 so expect more of this across the country in future years .

  23. #53
    Senior Member matthew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cornwall, SW
    Posts
    647

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Phil said:
    "This current spell of weather & the situations with flooding etc is the big wake up call the Environment Agency & politicians have needed for decades...hopefully they will now get off their backsides & do something about it."

    They've done 'it', Phil.
    The policy of raising the water table on the Levels goes back at least as far as Renewable John's 1997 paper link and is quite deliberate.

    Quote: "poor grassland can be restored to species-rich fen meadow or flood pasture through extensive farming practices. The decline in our population of breeding waders can be reversed by the use of raised water tables during spring and early summer. "

    The only way to raise the water table is to stop dredging is it not?
    This was to create 'washlands' or 'water storage areas' and be more environmentally friendly to wading birds: the policy was contained in EU directives, ratified by our lot in 2007. (See euRef links) and to 'undo' it, if that is the intention, will take quite a few EA licenses and permissions.
    And ..... if the dredged spoil is taken more than a shove's length (6' for man and a hand shovel, 30' for mechanical back loader?) then the product becomes 'waste' and needs another license.

    More here:

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84689

  24. #54
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Machars, Galloway
    Posts
    50

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    The Farmers cannot be blamed for South coat damage today. Makes localised inland flooding look a lot less dramatic IMO. Rail spokesman indicated it would take at least 6 weeks to repair the main line to Cornwall.
    It really is time that we woke up in this country - if this took place in Singapore, Japan or any number of other countries in the world there would already be diggers placing rock armour in place and that line would be open in 6 days not 6 weeks.

    Cheers
    mac

  25. #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    208

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by brigadoon View Post
    It really is time that we woke up in this country - if this took place in Singapore, Japan or any number of other countries in the world there would already be diggers placing rock armour in place and that line would be open in 6 days not 6 weeks.

    Cheers
    mac
    What I find amazing is the government report into the 2007 floods specifically highlights the rail track at Dawlish as being exposed and in need of urgent re-enforcement and sweet f a seems to have been done about it.

  26. #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,106

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    6 months will probably be nearer the truth.

    As for the coastal flooding & structural damage ?
    When you see how close to the sea some of these houses etc are...is it really that surprising ?
    And I'm afraid I did get a little bit hacked off when BBC Spotlight seemed to be featuring one particular Cafe owner who seemed to be complaining that her cafe, LOCATED ALMOST RIGHT ON THE BEECH, had been damaged twice in a week ! It's a bit like the couple that buy the idyllic "Mill house beside the Leat" in high summer when everything is wonderful....then moan like hell to the council etc that the place is under water in the Winter.

    I'm afraid that this is in no way the same as the awful situation now faced by people in Somerset, and probably soon to be followed by villages elsewhere, where by inland flooding is a direct result of silted up rivers & the over development of area's where hundreds of acres of soil (farmland) is replaced by roofs, tarmac & concrete. And in some cases "so called" flood relief schemes have been designed to do exactly the opposite - they hold water back to prevent flooding in major city's & actually cause flooding in other area's
    The River systems & flood-plains in this country were not "cut out" to cope with the shear volume of water that is now hitting them at an ever increasing speed !

    And yes, I know we are experiencing prolonged periods of heavy rain & strong winds...but has this not always been the case ? How do we know that these sorts of weather patterns didn't happen 300 years ago ?

    This current spell of weather & the situations with flooding etc is the big wake up call the Environment Agency & politicians have needed for decades...hopefully they will now get off their backsides & do something about it !
    The reason I mentioned the coastal damage around the UK and the railway ( 6 months and the rest to repair as they do not know the extent of the damage right along the Dawlish stretch) because I would guess the economic impact is potentially huge. I suppose there will be some contractors that will benefit but the cost of the damage to the South West coasts (and elsewhere) will be enormous.
    On an aside I do note that a proportion of the folk interviewed on the levels and on the coast do not sound 'local' and anyone buying a property in those areas must realise they do so with risk attached. Obviously does not apply if it has been home for generations or decades.

  27. #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    104

    Re: Somerset flooding

    When are the Government going to realise that wading birds haven't got the vote?

  28. #58
    Senior Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    East Devon
    Posts
    792

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Phil said:
    "This current spell of weather & the situations with flooding etc is the big wake up call the Environment Agency & politicians have needed for decades...hopefully they will now get off their backsides & do something about it."

    They've done 'it', Phil.
    The policy of raising the water table on the Levels goes back at least as far as Renewable John's 1997 paper link and is quite deliberate.

    Quote: "poor grassland can be restored to species-rich fen meadow or flood pasture through extensive farming practices. The decline in our population of breeding waders can be reversed by the use of raised water tables during spring and early summer. "

    The only way to raise the water table is to stop dredging is it not?

    This was to create 'washlands' or 'water storage areas' and be more environmentally friendly to wading birds: the policy was contained in EU directives, ratified by our lot in 2007. (See euRef links) and to 'undo' it, if that is the intention, will take quite a few EA licenses and permissions.
    And ..... if the dredged spoil is taken more than a shove's length (6' for man and a hand shovel, 30' for mechanical back loader?) then the product becomes 'waste' and needs another license.

    More here:

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=84689
    No, stopping the dredging is not the only way to control water levels ! But it is certainly the cheapest option

    I know it is not on the same scale - but on our marshes here we have the remains of the old sluices that were used to keep the water levels in the streams & ditched higher in the Summer months !
    When we first signed up to a Countryside Stewardship Agreement in 1992 one of the ecologists claimed that our area of fen (peat bog) was drying out & that we had to stop cleaning out all the ditches around the fen & the marshes & also leave the main stream to silt up, Our Landlords The National Trust agreed with the ecologist...despite strong protests from myself about how this would be a very bad idea, as the water levels would soon become too high in the Winter, and telling them that they should put sluices in the ditches & the stream ! I also Warned The National Trust that not cleaning out the ditches & allowing the main stream to silt up could then lead to flooding on other land & properties further back "up stream". As usual the Ecologists & The National Trust knew best....so we stopped cleaning out the ditches & maintaining the stream.
    4 years later, following numerous complaints by other land owners & property owners, The National Trust & the Ecologist came up with the idea of putting sluices in the ditches & the main stream !!
    Boards are now removed in late September/early October, but we can be flexible depending on the season/weather, and we now have full control over the water levels.

    Now I realise that it would have to be on a much bigger scale, and the initial cost would be huge, but there is no reason why they can not do this on the Somerset Levels...after they have dredged all the rivers, cleaned out the ditches & spread the spoil back on the Land !

  29. #59
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    North York Moors
    Posts
    1,277

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Another pdf which with hindsight clearly sets out mis-management strategies for The Parret.
    Page 28 also shows the EU involvement.

    http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/cem/pdf/...M-08-09-08.pdf

  30. #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    537

    Re: Somerset flooding

    Heartbreaking for some of our compatriots who are affected:


    http://www.itv.com/news/west/update/...ames-winslade/

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •