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Thread: strip till

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    strip till

    Anyone using a clayden drill whent to look at one on Friday and what sort of job it had done looked good was surprised how dry the land was compared with conventional drilling. There must be some draw backs .because the savings to be made look good against plough and combi.

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    Senior Member Hazza97's Avatar
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    Re: strip till

    We used a Claydon for drilling all our OSR last year and our rape is the best its ever looked! I'm not sure what model claydon it is as it was a 6 metre which was cut down to about 4.2 ish and is about 6-7 years old. It's mounted on a JD7930 and also applies slug pellets and liquid fert at the same time. As well as the time saving benefits due to the Clayden system and applying the liquid fert etc it also does shallow subsoiling and opens up good deep cracks for easy root penetration. We were worried about slug damage on our heavy land due to these air pockets buts its been fine so far but that could partly be down to the weather. After we drilled some fields due to our heavy ground it looked like the field was covered in large lumps of soil due to the deep front leg and the hard ground but a set of rolls soon sorted that out. The only downside I can see from the model our contractor uses is that it is a heavy drill so you need a big tractor and a big weight block even with the liquid fert on the front. We found it to be quite slow compared with standard drilling but he said thats due to the homemade liquid fert setup not being able to keep up but its not terribly slow by any means. He doesn't put tramlines in when he drills as they apparently appear several feet across so they are sprayed off at a later date using a utv mounted sprayer. These faults though are probably non existant on the new models though but all in all though a great bit of kit!

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    Re: strip till

    Try it in the wet then come back and show me.
    A good system but it's not a direct drill per se. Very good results have been shown in a variety of situations but the single biggest factor is that the claydon lets you choose when to drill. Timing is everything.

    My only concern revolves around the row spacing and how this will affect blackgrass control.

    I'm interested in your OSR establishment technique, principly the use of starter fertiliser what products are used and at what rate etc?

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    Senior Member Badshot's Avatar
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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Try it in the wet then come back and show me.
    A good system but it's not a direct drill per se. Very good results have been shown in a variety of situations but the single biggest factor is that the claydon lets you choose when to drill. Timing is everything.

    My only concern revolves around the row spacing and how this will affect blackgrass control.

    I'm interested in your OSR establishment technique, principly the use of starter fertiliser what products are used and at what rate etc?

    Wide row direct drilling gives excellent control of blackgrass in rape as it keeps the seed on the surface or very shallow where the kerb/crawler can actually work properly.
    If in doubt get a bigger hammer

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    Re: strip till

    Are the so called strip till drills not just a return to what came along as min till to replace the plough using a Carrier or Horsch FG cultivator followed by the drill, although of course doing it in one pass. The min till systems didn't last long and were replaced with deep non inversion tillage using Solos and Trios etc and 10 years down the line some of this land is returning to the plough.

    The strip till drill system looks good but it is not just about buying a drill...the system will fail just like min till did unless everything else is put in place such as crop rotation, seeding ferts , slug control, herbicides etc.

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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    Are the so called strip till drills not just a return to what came along as min till to replace the plough using a Carrier or Horsch FG cultivator followed by the drill, although of course doing it in one pass. The min till systems didn't last long and were replaced with deep non inversion tillage using Solos and Trios etc and 10 years down the line some of this land is returning to the plough.

    The strip till drill system looks good but it is not just about buying a drill...the system will fail just like min till did unless everything else is put in place such as crop rotation, seeding ferts , slug control, herbicides etc.
    I believe the lack of any new grassweed chemistry coming means an old fashioned switched to more mixed cropping or a return to the plough. With Atlantis plus liberator now being pretty expensive by anyones measure, surely some metal instead has to be a worthwhile spend?

    Going back to one of my previous lives, I remember the shock we had when we switched from the old Simba discs plus press to the Discordon, suddenly blackgrass control wasn't all that hot, and that is back in the days of IPU. I cam still remember when we had the machine over for a demo, they were all quite impressed with how much soil and stubble had been moved when compared to what our discs would do.

    I'll never understand the fascination with Sumos, if you can drag a 3m one of those then a 6 furrow plough shouldn't be much more of a spend. One turns soil over, the other boils and mixes it giving you weed seeds at a variety of depths.

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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    I believe the lack of any new grassweed chemistry coming means an old fashioned switched to more mixed cropping or a return to the plough. With Atlantis plus liberator now being pretty expensive by anyones measure, surely some metal instead has to be a worthwhile spend?

    Going back to one of my previous lives, I remember the shock we had when we switched from the old Simba discs plus press to the Discordon, suddenly blackgrass control wasn't all that hot, and that is back in the days of IPU. I cam still remember when we had the machine over for a demo, they were all quite impressed with how much soil and stubble had been moved when compared to what our discs would do.

    I'll never understand the fascination with Sumos, if you can drag a 3m one of those then a 6 furrow plough shouldn't be much more of a spend. One turns soil over, the other boils and mixes it giving you weed seeds at a variety of depths.
    How does ploughing control grassweeds? If it did we wouldn't be spraying surely?

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    Re: strip till

    Ploughing rotationally can work well, if you bury blackgrass well (good careful ploughing as a given) and leave it there for 3 years it will generally rot and die and never germinate to bother you again. Where you come unstuck is thinking it will control all grass weeds, clearly wild oats, being longer lived will just laugh it off.

    Have got land which suffers blackgrass, easily remedied in this area as can use maize or put it down to grass for 3 years. Blackgrass won't stick that. Sow ryegrass at good seed rates and it will smother anything.

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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by WillyScale View Post
    How does ploughing control grassweeds? If it did we wouldn't be spraying surely?
    No Blackgrass in these parts but there are various Brome species ....having observed all sorts of non inversion tillage there is no doubt at all that ploughing is a very good control method for these grasses evidenced by the weed grass becoming endemic in non inversion systems within three years. I don't know of anyone spraying for brome species in a plough based system. The plough will control volunteer cereals very well too in close cereal rotations while the non inversion systems will always rely on glyphosate. Without the grass weed (volunteer wheat) control offered by the plough it renders some rotations such as milling winter oats after wheat unviable.

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    Re: strip till

    I would like to switch back towards ploughing for OSR again on heavier ground where moisture isn't such a worry. Bonus would be can leave out early graminicide application plus slugs pressure should be reduced.

    Downside is cost and time, but I'm confident I'll get my way when winter barley becomes a lot more fashionable!

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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    I would like to switch back towards ploughing for OSR again on heavier ground where moisture isn't such a worry. Bonus would be can leave out early graminicide application plus slugs pressure should be reduced.

    Downside is cost and time, but I'm confident I'll get my way when winter barley becomes a lot more fashionable!
    When winter barley can equal or better wheat yeilds with a similar costing then it may get more fashionable,,,??? We have some in again this year as it preformed well last, but it has a way to go I think,,
    Big Vern..... Stay low Move faster

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    Re: strip till

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Vern View Post
    When winter barley can equal or better wheat yeilds with a similar costing then it may get more fashionable,,,??? We have some in again this year as it preformed well last, but it has a way to go I think,,
    Vern we were regularly out yielding wheat back when I was still a student, one year we managed 12t/ha from some of it, older six row varieties can't remember if it was Siberia or Gladiator that it was called. Thing is winter barley seems to be better at scavenging nitrogen than wheat so you can save there. Plus the fungicide spend is reduced, or should be!

    Newer six row varieties are supposed to move the game on but I'm not convinced. Main benefit is earlier entry for the rape.

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