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Thread: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

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    How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    As far as I know the only difference is the engine, but can you spot the difference simply by looking at them?

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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by redgiant View Post
    As far as I know the only difference is the engine, but can you spot the difference simply by looking at them?
    yes the mk1 has a wedge on the sump

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    the MK2 has different mudguards

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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    yes the mk1 has a wedge on the sump
    Yes, there is a kind of wedge at the back iirc. It will also be fairly obvious that the MkI has an indirect injection engine, the 4.192 while the Mk2 has a really quite superb direct injection AD4.203.
    Mk I introduced in late 1957 for delivery just the same time I was born. Mk2 introduced in late '59 for 1960 delivery.

    I know this because I grew up with the transition from Field Marshall and standard Fordson to a Mk2 bought in 1962. It was the first tractor I drove solo, even before I could press the clutch properly, although I did help steer the Field Marshall, which is still in working order fairly locally.
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    did some 165s come with exhaust pipes on different sides

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    Senior Member Dexta man's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    One has the oil filter at a angle and the others oil filter is vertical but I can't remember which one is which.

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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by zsnotdead View Post
    did some 165s come with exhaust pipes on different sides
    Yes if its got a 203 engine the pipe is on the left if its a 212 the pipe is on the right

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    Senior Member old-school's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    yes the mk1 has a wedge on the sump
    correct

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Yes, there is a kind of wedge at the back iirc. It will also be fairly obvious that the MkI has an indirect injection engine, the 4.192 while the Mk2 has a really quite superb direct injection AD4.203.
    Mk I introduced in late 1957 for delivery just the same time I was born. Mk2 introduced in late '59 for 1960 delivery.

    I know this because I grew up with the transition from Field Marshall and standard Fordson to a Mk2 bought in 1962. It was the first tractor I drove solo, even before I could press the clutch properly, although I did help steer the Field Marshall, which is still in working order fairly locally.
    I know the mk 1 had the 192 engide and the mk2 the direct injection 203. Was the indirect D203 engine fitted at any time .

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Yes, there is a kind of wedge at the back iirc. It will also be fairly obvious that the MkI has an indirect injection engine, the 4.192 while the Mk2 has a really quite superb direct injection AD4.203.
    Mk I introduced in late 1957 for delivery just the same time I was born. Mk2 introduced in late '59 for 1960 delivery.

    I know this because I grew up with the transition from Field Marshall and standard Fordson to a Mk2 bought in 1962. It was the first tractor I drove solo, even before I could press the clutch properly, although I did help steer the Field Marshall, which is still in working order fairly locally.
    For those of us who sometimes fail to spot the obvious () How do you spot the difference in the injection types?

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by redgiant View Post
    For those of us who sometimes fail to spot the obvious () How do you spot the difference in the injection types?
    The injectors in the indirect engine go in upright the direct injection go in at a slight angle cheers

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Injectors are perpendicular to the head in the indirect engine, and they are angled in the direct engine. The Mkl had the angled oil filter, the Mkll was upright.

    The indirect D203 was only ever fitted to US tractors as far as I am aware.

    Later edit:

    Beaten by Tubby!

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    Senior Member Ray's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    IIRC mk1's shared the same shell type fenders as fitted to TE20's and 35's. The mk2's had the later safety round fenders that came right down to the footplates. These were also fitted to 35X, and early 135 tractors, although with the 65's axle to fender spacers were fitted to clear the 32" wheels.

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    No, the first MKII's were fitted with the same wings as the MKI, the safety wings were fitted from around 1962/63.

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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    My MkII did not have safety fenders. In fact the Health and Safety inspectorate insisted that safety extensions were fitted to the footplates and mudguards as well as the fan. This is what I remember from when I was four to six years of age, although we had the for around 12 years iirc. Mostly I remember its very heavy steering and appalling brakes along with the fast links and fabulous engine power and torque from such a smooth direct injection engine. The A4 212 engine fitted to later 165 tractors was a bag of nails in comparison.
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    My MkII did not have safety fenders. In fact the Health and Safety inspectorate insisted that safety extensions were fitted to the footplates and mudguards as well as the fan. This is what I remember from when I was four to six years of age, although we had the for around 12 years iirc. Mostly I remember its very heavy steering and appalling brakes along with the fast links and fabulous engine power and torque from such a smooth direct injection engine. The A4 212 engine fitted to later 165 tractors was a bag of nails in comparison.
    We have a MKII 65 with very easy steering you can get power steering for them, It also has very good wet brakes
    Had a 50b with a 212 in it dam good engine that was

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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    We have a MKII 65 with very easy steering you can get power steering for them, It also has very good wet brakes
    Had a 50b with a 212 in it dam good engine that was
    The 65 and the early 165 has a steering arm that rises high with a high drag link from the box to the vertical spindle in the front. This was very much improved when the A4 212 was introduced to the 165 with the very much lower drag link and virtual elimination of the spindle tower in front of the radiator.
    Yes there was power steering available for the 65 and it was jolly-well needed too! I'm comparing it to the later unassisted steering of the 165.

    Never seen a 65 with wet brakes. As far as I know they all had Girling dry disc brakes. Awful dangerous unreliable things they were/are, whether fitted to the 65 or to Leyland or whatever. Their inadequacy spurred on the development of the excellent Girling wet disc brakes which were introduced some dozen years later on MF with the 185, but initially I think around 1964 in the Ford 4000 and 5000.

    The A4 212 is certainly a nice engine even though it was rough-sounding compared to the A4 203. The 212 was an odd model in the engine range, being the only one with a short stroke crank. All the others, the AD3 153, the A4 236 and 248, has a longer 5 inch stroke if I remember correctly.
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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    The 65 and the early 165 has a steering arm that rises high with a high drag link from the box to the vertical spindle in the front. This was very much improved when the A4 212 was introduced to the 165 with the very much lower drag link and virtual elimination of the spindle tower in front of the radiator.
    Yes there was power steering available for the 65 and it was jolly-well needed too! I'm comparing it to the later unassisted steering of the 165.

    Never seen a 65 with wet brakes. As far as I know they all had Girling dry disc brakes. Awful dangerous unreliable things they were/are, whether fitted to the 65 or to Leyland or whatever. Their inadequacy spurred on the development of the excellent Girling wet disc brakes which were introduced some dozen years later on MF with the 185, but initially I think around 1964 in the Ford 4000 and 5000.

    The A4 212 is certainly a nice engine even though it was rough-sounding compared to the A4 203. The 212 was an odd model in the engine range, being the only one with a short stroke crank. All the others, the AD3 153, the A4 236 and 248, has a longer 5 inch stroke if I remember correctly.
    Cant agree with you about the steering on a 165 being better having driven both, I think the ford system for wet brakes was much the same with less discs
    To fit wet brakes to a 65 you have to change the complete axle stubs and the diff but not the crownwheel
    One hell of a tractor once that and the steering was done, had it 40 years now and its still used most days

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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Cant agree with you about the steering on a 165 being better having driven both, I think the ford system for wet brakes was much the same with less discs
    To fit wet brakes to a 65 you have to change the complete axle stubs and the diff but not the crownwheel
    One hell of a tractor once that and the steering was done, had it 40 years now and its still used most days
    Cast iron gets less malleable and more brittle with age, so even ten years ago just one tap of those sticky-out wheels against a solid object could have the transmission castings shear. I know of three that broke in half in this way, mostly slurry scraping around cattle sheds.
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    From the info that I have the Ministry of Agriculture (Field Machines) Regulations 1962 introduced the safety fenders - I believe they became effective in 1963 and with regard to the MF65 Mark 2 from serial number 583731

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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    Cast iron gets less malleable and more brittle with age, so even ten years ago just one tap of those sticky-out wheels against a solid object could have the transmission castings shear. I know of three that broke in half in this way, mostly slurry scraping around cattle sheds.
    Not sure what this has got to do with what I said

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    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henarar View Post
    Not sure what this has got to do with what I said
    It is just a note to be careful what you do with antique tractors. They will not be as durable as when they were reasonably new.
    The Duck 2015

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    Senior Member Henarar's Avatar
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    Re: How Do You Tell Between Massey Ferguson 65 MkI and MkII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    It is just a note to be careful what you do with antique tractors. They will not be as durable as when they were reasonably new.
    Oh right you may well be right but i can't afford nor would i want to keep tractors just to look at but i do my best to be carefull

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