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Thread: Maize behind grass without Poncho

  1. #1
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    Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Is anyone trying Sonido instead?

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    Going to try it this year as risky without, unless try using Dursban.

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    You will need to apply dursban anyway to deal with the learherjackets, they can see decimate a maize crop. I am going to apply it when the pre-em stomp goes on.

    It is vital that the maize goes into a top notch seed bed and is done when it is good and warm. If you have a cold wet horrible seed bed even poncho will not save the day and it is much more effective than Sonido.

    One idiot has been running around my area claiming Sonido is some magic bullet and is will give better yields etc etc etc. There is no evidence to support this claim. In fact it wasn't even approved for use in the UK until recently and Bayer will not back the product. Thiacloprid is harsh on the seed itself and can adversely effect the germination nor can it be applied with mesurol meaning maize will be defenceless against the rooks so keep a close eye on it.

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    You will need to apply dursban anyway to deal with the learherjackets, they can see decimate a maize crop. I am going to apply it when the pre-em stomp goes on.

    It is vital that the maize goes into a top notch seed bed and is done when it is good and warm. If you have a cold wet horrible seed bed even poncho will not save the day and it is much more effective than Sonido.

    One idiot has been running around my area claiming Sonido is some magic bullet and is will give better yields etc etc etc. There is no evidence to support this claim. In fact it wasn't even approved for use in the UK until recently and Bayer will not back the product. Thiacloprid is harsh on the seed itself and can adversely effect the germination nor can it be applied with mesurol meaning maize will be defenceless against the rooks so keep a close eye on it.
    Christ no seed treatment to protect against rooks would scare me more than the rest put together!! Having watched them eat their way through 20acres of maize about 4" tall in a single day because I missed putting the banging ropes out nearly broke my soul !! Been trying to grow organic maize and everybody says weeds are the problem, bollucks to the weeds I can hoe them buggers out, its the rooks around our place that kills the job flat!

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    What about mixing seed, with the two treatments ????
    ?

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Have previously tank mixed Dursban with the roundup when spraying off grassland for maize. The sooner you can get rid of the leatherjackets the better. Also have found this beneficial in the fight against rooke damage as they are invariably destroying emerging maize plants to get to the leatherjackets, the sooner they realize there isn't a tasty meal under the plant the sooner they bugger off and stop pulling them up! Am I right in thinking you can only use Dursban if you have old stock to use up as it is not going to be available any more?? Regarding the Poncho issue, I'm trying to plan ahead and spray off and fallow any grass that's going to maize in the spring the previous autumn in the hope this will help with the wireworm issue. Have only used poncho on grassland that has been down for more than 3 years and been ok so far.

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Quote Originally Posted by MR NODDY View Post
    Have previously tank mixed Dursban with the roundup when spraying off grassland for maize. The sooner you can get rid of the leatherjackets the better. Also have found this beneficial in the fight against rooke damage as they are invariably destroying emerging maize plants to get to the leatherjackets, the sooner they realize there isn't a tasty meal under the plant the sooner they bugger off and stop pulling them up! Am I right in thinking you can only use Dursban if you have old stock to use up as it is not going to be available any more?? Regarding the Poncho issue, I'm trying to plan ahead and spray off and fallow any grass that's going to maize in the spring the previous autumn in the hope this will help with the wireworm issue. Have only used poncho on grassland that has been down for more than 3 years and been ok so far.
    I normally put the dursban in the tank with the glyphosate when spraying off grass leys too, as you say to kill leatherjackets and frit fly early. Gives it a chance to work down into the soil and also the wetting package in a typical chlorpyrifos formulation is hot as hades which helps the glyphosate along.

    Typically the wireworm issue is worst in the 2nd year after grass I have found, but after 4 years you are largely clear of it. Grass which has been in a rotation and only been there for 4-5 years should be no problem, it is long term grass of 8-10 years where you can have a problem. I have a guy who has sprayed off and ploughed up some grass destined for maize early, which should mean the wireworm have little to eat for several months as well as half his cultivations have been done for him by the weather. Even so I will still put the dursban in with the pre-em this time. I'm hoping this will keep the wireworm at bay long enough for the maize to get up and away quickly.

    As I said seedbeds will need to be spot on and warm, so we won't be drilling early, and I've upped the seed rate so we can afford to lose a few thousand plants to wireworm if needs be.

    Year before last I had a few fields which suffered serious wireworm problems, and that was its 2nd year after grass. In that cold wet summer the maize sat around at 4-5 inches tall for so long, and the wireworm were chewing through the centre of the stem below the soil level and that was poncho dressed seed- it only gives you 4 or so weeks protection before it washes away or is diluted in the new plant tissue.

    The risk of rooks I agree is actually more serious, thankfully I have a guy in my area who I can send along to do some prescriptive agronomic shooting and he is very good, he absolutely loves shooting particularly corvids and pigeons, I must have him wandering over about 2000 acres now, he goes all over the county for me.

    My advice then is get in there as soon as possible and tip it over, then leave it until May and get to work. And don't even think about hitching the subsoiler on until the land is actually dried out.

    I would never drill two different maize varieties or seed treatments together, I know people do it but it makes no sense because you could have different flowering habits and snooker yourself with poor pollination which will do your cobs no good at all.

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Just watch if you plan to spray off the grass prior to cutting for silage, you can not put the dursban on at the same time as you don't want it ending up in the clamp....

    I'm concerned about the Sonido effecting germination, but what other option do we really have????

    Apparently dursban has been proven to be effective on wireworm if applied at a high rate, but a) illegal and b) costly....

    DOH

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Even poncho is not fool proof. It will give several weeks protection but the maize must get up and away fast.

    I am putting dursban in with the pre em PDM, and we will aim for a very good warm seed bed. I have upped the seed rate slightly and we won't drill very early. Wireworm tends to be a problem after grass that has been there more than 5 years and can be worse in the second year out of grass.

    You must put the dursban out anyway, for leatherjacket control, they will decimate a spring crop far faster than slugs and Wireworm combined they are hungry buggers.

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Is it only me very concerned about this? I would have thought Maize being so expensive to grow and critical to us Dairy farmers there would be a lot more talk/pressure to sort this out....

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    Re: Maize behind grass without Poncho

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstien View Post
    Is it only me very concerned about this? I would have thought Maize being so expensive to grow and critical to us Dairy farmers there would be a lot more talk/pressure to sort this out....
    Even with Poncho there is no guarantee- you will get 4-6 weeks protection, after which, the poncho begins to be diluted within the plant tissue to a level which is too low to affect the wireworm. I had it 2 years ago, field was 2 years out of long term grass. Poncho dressed. Wireworm still came.

    Sonido is no different. Seed beds will need to be good, deep and warm. Resist the urge to drill early, I still have no clue why people do this. Throw the calendar out, don't watch the neighbours and buy a soil thermometer instead. Needs to be 10 degrees and rising soil temps. I say 10 degrees because people still drill it too early if I say 8 degrees. Maize in cold and wet soils just sits there with two leaves and goes yellow, I'm yet to be convinced maize drilled earlier cuts earlier. Variety, site and soil type make way more difference.

    Those of you who know they have high weed burdens, play a dodgy game when you opt for no pre-em. If the weather plays about like last year and you can't spray on time, no amount of Calaris will bring back a stunted crop.

    Problem with wireworm seed dressings is that a lot of products used elsewhere in the world will never be registered in the UK or EU. The Americans have Fipronil which hasn't got a cats chance in hell of getting approved over here. And with Poncho only sat out of the game for 2 years at the moment, there is little impetus to spend another 100 million getting something registered.

    Chlorpyrifos only gives them a headache. It seems to deter them for a time but they will be back with a vengeance. I'm personally going to put mine on with the pre-em and an adjuvant to spread it. Just don't try and be clever and put Dursban on with your post em weed control!

    Hope this helps. Just keep a good eye on it. I'll be out looking at this particular bit every week until it gets away. Until then I will sit with worry.

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