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Thread: dependant scotland

  1. #31
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Aha! Wondered how long it would take for the inferiority complex to arrive!

    I'm a bigot am I? Not at all. I honestly couldn't give damn either way, but I resent the implication that somehow the English have been the root of all evils and are the reason life is so terrible yadda yadda yadda.

    Simple. Just vote independent and stop having my tax dollars. Trident comes home, as does the boat building.

    As for American oil production, having been to Texas I can tell you the whole place is covered in derricks but that didn't stop domestic oil production from falling off a cliff since about 1975. Americans still made a pretty penny in oil: by refining imported product. If they had relied only on domestic sources a lot of their refining base would have had nothing to refine. Google it. Only now is fracking beginning to halt the decline.
    Mayo,

    The English the root of all evils??? YES

    Seriously now, if you had the choice would you be governed by an English government?

    Jack Caley

  2. #32
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    Re: dependant scotland

    whilst labour were in power weren't we english effectively being ruled by scots labour mps? strathclyde question et al

  3. #33
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: dependant scotland

    As far as regional spending by the Government per head of population goes, I think you will find that London spends more than most. The relevant part of the video is from minute 2.15.

    The Duck 2015

  4. #34
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale Farmer View Post
    No, you cant. But the poster was, to me, trying to somehow pin the blame on Scotland for the banks. Yes, sadly Blair was born up here. But the COUNTRY voted them in. Just as SCOTLAND voted in the SNP, and their manifesto. A manifesto which contains a referendum on independence. Something which has been part of their manifesto since long before Salmond and Sturgeon were born. Many of those 'down south' who dislike Salmond should remember this.

    Its an interesting point, but certainly not bollocks. I suspect in any independence referendum the world over, if you do not live within the region wanting to 'break-away' you do not get a vote. If you were to include those living in other parts of the UK, where do you draw the line? My cousin currently lives in Germany, and has done for about 5 years, should she get a vote? What about all those Scots who emigrated to New Zealand, Australia or Canada? You can see how muddled or complex that could become.......

    Also got to remember that those who were born throughout the UK, and are now registered as living in Scotland, get to vote. I dont see any other way in which the electorate could have been drawn up clearly.

    If it is a regressive move - why does Cameron want to have a referendum on Europe? Why does he want the UK to break away and do things their own way? Why does he want to leave a larger community? To answer those questions, youl start to realise Scotlands view and position within the Union.
    I personally think that it would be fairer for anyone of Scottish nationality or birth to be able to vote regardless of where they live. But I can see both sides of that one. On Europe, there is a comparison, no doubt. My heart tells me out of Europe but my head? I think still out but the sole reason I think would be that we don't really want to adopt the Euro so it's always going to be a big problem. I suppose the pro Scots could say that they feel their politics are so different from the union that it's incompatible and I see that as well. I just think it's a shame but it's a test of democracy and if the Scots want out then that's that and I hope we will stay on good terms. Maybe we would be on better terms? I wish Scotland well whatever the vote. It's God's second home after Devon so it must have something going for it.

  5. #35
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    Re: dependant scotland

    As a farmer in "England " I'd never leave the EU as a business man in "England " Id still never leave the EU ! If I was a little Englander I could see the attraction but that's when you believe in your country and can't see the benefits of free trade etc .

    I red in this thread it was sad that scots outside of Scotland couldn't vote ! Havering just had a pint with two expat scots and and hand full of English lads the scots said they don't live in Scotland anymore so fair enough !! Now on the othe hand I have an old and very good friend who lives and works in Scotland and has done for the past 20 years or so , he says he won't vote it's up to the Scotish people to vote and if it doesn't suit him he'll move back south .

  6. #36
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Cowabunga View Post
    As far as regional spending by the Government per head of population goes, I think you will find that London spends more than most. The relevant part of the video is from minute 2.15.


    Was that Paxman flustered?

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Some of you have taken my post as blaming the Scots for the Bank fiasco - not at all - all I said was Scotland was too small to bail them out, I said nothing about whether they should have bailed them out, or that just because HBOS or RBS had the word Scotland in, it was Scotlands fault. Not at all.
    What I was trying to get at was that Scotland is a relatively small economy and like Iceland may have been in trouble (presuming independence) if Alex had designed his economic strategy on his original (Icelandic) thoughts. Smaller economies are usually better off as part of a bigger group of trading partners ( like the EEC, not EU) . Better off being in the UK - a federation of relatively similar countries, trading partners?
    I can understand wanting to be independent - bit like wanting a detached house BUT what I don't understand is why gain independence from England, Wales and NI then jump straight into another federation (EU) one which will take away further sovereignty and not devolve powers back and force you to use a currency that you have no control over.

  8. #38
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by windylamb View Post
    Some of you have taken my post as blaming the Scots for the Bank fiasco - not at all - all I said was Scotland was too small to bail them out, I said nothing about whether they should have bailed them out, or that just because HBOS or RBS had the word Scotland in, it was Scotlands fault. Not at all.
    What I was trying to get at was that Scotland is a relatively small economy and like Iceland may have been in trouble (presuming independence) if Alex had designed his economic strategy on his original (Icelandic) thoughts. Smaller economies are usually better off as part of a bigger group of trading partners ( like the EEC, not EU) . Better off being in the UK - a federation of relatively similar countries, trading partners?
    I can understand wanting to be independent - bit like wanting a detached house BUT what I don't understand is why gain independence from England, Wales and NI then jump straight into another federation (EU) one which will take away further sovereignty and not devolve powers back and force you to use a currency that you have no control over.
    +1
    A few years ago, the SNP declared Sterling to be a dying currency and that the Euro was the future. This was around the same time as Salmond was extolling the virtues of Ireland's "Celtic Tiger" economy....... Given that they have back-tracked on such a major part of their economic vision in a relatively short time frame, it hardly fills me with confidence when the SNP try to sell me their 'vision' of economic paradise.
    As someone who helped vote in the current SNP government, let there be no doubt I did so on the basis that they were the best of a bad lot to run Scotland within the framework of the devolved powers and many others voted with that in mind, it would be a mistake to think that an SNP government was necessarily a mandate for Independence.

  9. #39
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    Re: dependant scotland

    The banks should never have been bailed out. period.
    Iceland let them go and jailed the ringleaders.
    All we did was take goodwins gong away. boohoo.
    I became an SNP voter in 1999 when crash gordon doubled the duty on white deisel. He ruined all remote areas at a stroke.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Cowabunga's Avatar
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    Was that Paxman flustered?
    I am very far from being a nationalist but people should get their facts right. Paxman pitched in from the start with an 'attitude' and got well and truly nailed. Not many people have been able to do that to Paxman. London does indeed spend more public money per head of population than does Wales and probably similar to Scotland. London is very compact and densely populated with a massive total head count, so the public spending in London is correspondingly massive compared to the regions.

    Has anyone been watching Evan Davies' series on planning and economics these past couple of weeks. He illustrates well how regional planning and their economy works and why enterprise and wealth creation congregates together and feeds off itself to perpetually grow. He reckons that we don't have a problem with London being too big and successful but the problem is that development is spread around elsewhere with no ambitious grand focus. Our secondary cities, such as Cardiff, Edinburgh, Manchester, Liverpool and Birmingham are just far too small and defocussed. They just don't attract talent and wealth due to this deficit of 'clustering'.

    If you haven't seen it and are interested in what makes our economy tick, do try and watch this. There are two episodes and this is the first, being centred on London. The second episode explores the regions and the businesses that are based, and not based there.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...est_Episode_1/
    The Duck 2015

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by danseyspass View Post
    The banks should never have been bailed out. period.
    Iceland let them go and jailed the ringleaders.
    All we did was take goodwins gong away. boohoo.
    I became an SNP voter in 1999 when crash gordon doubled the duty on white deisel. He ruined all remote areas at a stroke.
    What would have been your vote if the SNP had not existed out of interest?

  12. #42
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    Re: dependant scotland

    I was a tory voter for years till i grew up, but they started the fuel escalator, which crash gordon accelerated.
    I have never voted labour, but i might one day. I saw in 1999 that a tax rate on fuel which suited london and the south east was ruining scotland, and thats why i voted SNP.
    I had respect for thatcher, even though she ruined farming and industry, but i detest cameron and osborne.
    Very interesting that Sam cam s father owns a scottish island registered in the cayman islands to avoid tax.

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by saltoun View Post
    Banks were bailed out according to where they did business.Thats why the US fed pumped so much money into London.But the days of bank bail outs are gone now.EU,UK and US governments all accept that.If banks lend unwisely in the future their shareholders will take the hit first.Depositors second.Governments will have to pay more attention to bank regulation in order that depositors continue to trust bankers with their hard earned cash.Iceland jailed their criminal spiv bankers.The UK is a political and economic construct that was successful at conquering and exploiting other peoples round the globe.Those days are over.Time to restructure.Time to move forward.
    Governments will continue to bail out banks if they falter, to have banks collapse could leave people with savings totally demolished and it could even cause a huge ripple and destroy consumer confidence. This is why banks were bailed out in the first place. They will now force banks to carry much larger reserves for these kinds of reasons.

    Let's not forget that it is investment bankers who got hooked on trading bad debts. Lloyds walked away clean yet the government begged for them to absorb the huge losses of other businesses.

    As for my tone, I meant no offence. Though anyone who posts a YouTube link to an ill educated idiot ranting profanity and bases political views upon it would probably not in the least bit be offended by much anyway.

    As for you recycled, please don't feel threatened all the time by anyone who is clever enough to know that the Telegraph is not a top shelf publication. I pray for the day that you will add incisive and thoughtful prose to our discussions instead of your usual feeble personal attacks on me. Unfortunately I fear satan will skate to work before that happens.

    Kind regard

    Ollie

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Governments will continue to bail out banks if they falter, to have banks collapse could leave people with savings totally demolished and it could even cause a huge ripple and destroy consumer confidence. This is why banks were bailed out in the first place. They will now force banks to carry much larger reserves for these kinds of reasons.

    Let's not forget that it is investment bankers who got hooked on trading bad debts. Lloyds walked away clean yet the government begged for them to absorb the huge losses of other businesses.

    As for my tone, I meant no offence. Though anyone who posts a YouTube link to an ill educated idiot ranting profanity and bases political views upon it would probably not in the least bit be offended by much anyway.

    As for you recycled, please don't feel threatened all the time by anyone who is clever enough to know that the Telegraph is not a top shelf publication. I pray for the day that you will add incisive and thoughtful prose to our discussions instead of your usual feeble personal attacks on me. Unfortunately I fear satan will skate to work before that happens.

    Kind regard

    Ollie
    i can assure you mayo ive never ever felt threatened by anything you've ever written . generally i pull you up on the machinery threads because its clear to me even though you think your an expert on everything , you dont no one end of a bolt from another . i have on occasion agreed with you and backed you up on some threads , however every time the Scottish independence issue come up you do cause offence and i feel the need to reply to your bile . and i would like to point out to you ive never mentioned which way im planning on voting

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Couldn't give a monkeys which way you vote.

    I don't offend you or threaten you yet you persist in personal attacks against me and clearly cannot contribute in any thread beyond the subject of tractor driving. Go figure.

    I can only conclude you are one of those sorts who believe they are the cats own ass because they know how to drive a tractor. Whoop de do.

    Returning to the matter at hand, I can't wait for the Scottish to become independent as it will effectively mean the Labour Party are never again elected as my government. I feel such a result would be a far bigger win in my book than independence would be in a Scot's.

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Couldn't give a monkeys which way you vote.

    I don't offend you or threaten you yet you persist in personal attacks against me and clearly cannot contribute in any thread beyond the subject of tractor driving. Go figure.

    I can only conclude you are one of those sorts who believe they are the cats own ass because they know how to drive a tractor. Whoop de do.

    Returning to the matter at hand, I can't wait for the Scottish to become independent as it will effectively mean the Labour Party are never again elected as my government. I feel such a result would be a far bigger win in my book than independence would be in a Scot's.
    I get your point, that you dont want a labour govt.
    If you just left it at that, that would be preferable to second guessing what a scot would want "in his book".
    Since there is only one tory mp in scotland, its fair to say we dont ever want to be governed by tory policies, even though we have suffered them since 1979.

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Couldn't give a monkeys which way you vote.

    I don't offend you or threaten you yet you persist in personal attacks against me and clearly cannot contribute in any thread beyond the subject of tractor driving. Go figure.

    I can only conclude you are one of those sorts who believe they are the cats own ass because they know how to drive a tractor. Whoop de do.

    Returning to the matter at hand, I can't wait for the Scottish to become independent as it will effectively mean the Labour Party are never again elected as my government. I feel such a result would be a far bigger win in my book than independence would be in a Scot's.
    you get better every day

    you ever considered a name change to google ????

  18. #48
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Is it true what I'm hearing in the rumour mill about after the vote on independence we're going to get another vote to see if we want to be Russian ?
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    Is it true what I'm hearing in the rumour mill about after the vote on independence we're going to get another vote to see if we want to be Russian ?
    Who's going to count them?

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post

    I can only conclude you are one of those sorts who believe they are the cats own ass because they know how to drive a tractor. Whoop de do.
    Given the level of technology and money invested in tractors and equipment, not to mention the value of crops and inputs, tractor driving is not the poor relation in the family of agricultural skills.

    Agronomists, however, are 10-a-penny

  21. #51
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Couldn't give a monkeys which way you vote.

    I don't offend you or threaten you yet you persist in personal attacks against me and clearly cannot contribute in any thread beyond the subject of tractor driving. Go figure.

    I can only conclude you are one of those sorts who believe they are the cats own ass because they know how to drive a tractor. Whoop de do.

    Returning to the matter at hand, I can't wait for the Scottish to become independent as it will effectively mean the Labour Party are never again elected as my government. I feel such a result would be a far bigger win in my book than independence would be in a Scot's.
    Didn't you know that the only election result since 1979 which would have changed without the Scot's vote would be the last one where the Tories would have had a narrow majority? So we would have still have New Labour and I'm guessing through history it wouldn't have meant a total Tory UK without the Scots. Yes, it will make Tory majorities more likely.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/30b09312-8...#axzz2wKdybvJk

    What will probably happen is that both parties would lurch to the right and the results would be about the same but less socialist overall. Labour would have to give up the left and leave it to the commies or see their party fade away. In fact I could see a new party forming from the right of the labour party with 'labour movement' fading into obscurity.

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Recycled View Post
    you get better every day

    you ever considered a name change to google ????
    What the cronk are you on about, google?

    Maybe if you stopped oogling over Nuts magazine and profi once in a while and got over the big words they use on the news, you'd be able to contribute to threads like this, rather than having to resort to what is basically bullying.

    As I said before, play the ball and not the man. We are all positively dying to see you contribute in a incisive and articulate manner one day. Proving once and for all the difference between a monkey and a screwdriver.

  23. #53
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Although in poker you play the man, not the cards.

  24. #54
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    What the cronk are you on about, google?

    Maybe if you stopped oogling over Nuts magazine and profi once in a while and got over the big words they use on the news, you'd be able to contribute to threads like this, rather than having to resort to what is basically bullying.

    As I said before, play the ball and not the man. We are all positively dying to see you contribute in a incisive and articulate manner one day. Proving once and for all the difference between a monkey and a screwdriver.

    you contribute to this forum a lot , its a shame your giving out advice on stuff you have no clue about , empty advice really . it least i stick to what i know about .
    on these independence threads its not necessarily your politics im disagreeing with its the way you say it maybe if you were half as smart as you think you are you would be able to see that . of coarse if you were you were half as smart as you think you are you wouldnt feel the need to try and prov it to everyone , or yourself or whoever it is your trying to impress ,all the time . i do tend to find in life the smarter some people think they are the thicker they realy are , often found at the back of the rear discharge cutting strings of while its getting loaded
    you might want to re read back through this thread and check out the lack of support your getting and ask yourself why

  25. #55
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    Re: dependant scotland

    You're the one resorting to personal attacks, basically because you're out of your depth. You don't suppose that with all the grief I have been given in my time here, maybe its a bit like water off a ducks back for me? You don't suppose that maybe I actually enjoy being controversial and the deluge of nonsense that results..?

    I'm not interested in your support, or anyone else's. I'm not here to impress or flatter, and I couldn't give a sh1t if you agree with me or not. And if I upset someone with my opinions on this subject, who gives two hoots? No one cares. No one offers advice, we bring discussion and ideas to this forum, nothing more or less.

    Just stick to discussion, not personal attacks. Whilst my character can deal with being thoroughly trashed, the forum is not designed for that, nor does anyone else deserve to have the board cluttered with it. Stick to faceache or something if that's the kind of mundane stimulation you seek.

    As for what people know, do or how clever they are I have genuinely no idea. I've met a great deal of folk in the big grapevine that is BFF. I still take each post at face value and don't hold grudges. Not least because I can't remember who posted what, when or where.

  26. #56
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    Re: dependant scotland

    It would appear that this thread has become a microcosm of the whole Independence debate - It has been sidetracked into personal slanging matches with no-one wanting to debate the things that actually matter.......

  27. #57
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    Re: dependant scotland

    The BBC seem to me to give the Yes more coverage than the No

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    Re: dependant scotland

    I would say the only yes voters will be from the central belt and they wil cry Freedom all the way! I hope Scotland stays as part of the UK, it has to be better together!

  29. #59
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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoaktree View Post
    The BBC seem to me to give the Yes more coverage than the No
    Alex Salmond certainly wouldn't agree, given his spat with Andrew Marr. Although the SNP do seem to be developing a persecution complex, crying foul whenever anyone disagrees with them.
    Charles Kennedy is calling on the 'No' campaign to be more positive but that's going to be difficult, just by the very nature of their stance. The SNP are giving their vision the hard sell, which involves talking up what they believe to be the positives of Indepepndence but many of the things they are promising are not within their gift to deliver - things like EU membership, a currency union with the rUK, being a non-nuclear member of NATO - all of these things require agreement from outwith the SNP's control. So when Westminster or Brussels don't roll over and agree it's easy for the 'Yes' campaign to paint that as negative tactics from their opposition, when in fact all that is happening is they are looking after their own interests as would be reasonable to expect.
    The SNP are in the position to win the propaganda war, but unless they can actually back up their aspirations with an achievable outcome that the other interested parties will agree to, the road to Independence will be a very rocky one.

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    Re: dependant scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffy Dug View Post
    It would appear that this thread has become a microcosm of the whole Independence debate - It has been sidetracked into personal slanging matches with no-one wanting to debate the things that actually matter.......
    as long as it keeps mayo spouting his bile on the subject its worth it

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