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Thread: HALAL slaughter!

  1. #1

    HALAL slaughter!

    Evening all,
    Not sure if its been asked before, but wondering what the opinions on our forum are towards HALAL slaughter, seen some pretty awful videos going viral around social media etc this last week,

    Don't hold back

    Thanks in advance
    H-C

  2. #2
    Senior Member Hazza97's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I think that everything has it's place and traditions wether there religious or not are nice to have. However I think Halal can only be carried out by a very skilled slaughterer with very sharp nives and the like as it has the ability to cause great suffering if it's carried out badly. I still wouldn't buy it though as I see it as less humane and dignifide.

  3. #3
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    You've probably eat it as surplus halal meat goes into commercial chain but isn't labeled, which I think is very unacetpable.

  4. #4

    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pine_guy View Post
    You've probably eat it as surplus halal meat goes into commercial chain but isn't labeled, which I think is very unacetpable.
    yes often seems to be the case which is unacceptable really considering all the rules and regulations for farmers nowadays

  5. #5
    Senior Member Nithsdale Farmer's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Please remember that there are 2 types of HALAL slaughterings - the traditional un-stunned killing, and the widely practiced pre-stunned killing. More then 80% of all animals killed HALAL are pre-stunned and meet all welfare standards and its believed causes no more suffering then the western worlds methods of slaughter.

    I do not condone the traditional 'kosher' un-stunned slaughtering but have absoloutley no problems with a pre-stunned HALAL slaughter.
    If in doubt, yank it out!

  6. #6

    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale Farmer View Post
    Please remember that there are 2 types of HALAL slaughterings - the traditional un-stunned killing, and the widely practiced pre-stunned killing. More then 80% of all animals killed HALAL are pre-stunned and meet all welfare standards and its believed causes no more suffering then the western worlds methods of slaughter.

    I do not condone the traditional 'kosher' un-stunned slaughtering but have absoloutley no problems with a pre-stunned HALAL slaughter.
    After a significant amount of research into halal slaughter it turns out their pre stun is not the same stun used to render the animal unconscious like we are all familiar with, the halal pre stun must leave the animal concious so it can hear the words of the slaughterman only being paralised as to stop all movement to make the slaughter process easier for the slaughterman, but still causing the same amount of stress to the animal as a non pre stun!

    F#@D if im slaving my guts out 22 hours a day lambing my sheep and trying my damned hardest to care for them an keep them alive and to not let them suffer in anyway only for them to end up being slaughtered in this inhumane way causing unnecessary suffering!

    Im just surprised there aren't more stockmen thinking the same thing!!!

  7. #7
    Senior Member crofteress's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Its been aired on here a few times and most dont want it for obvious reasons. I have been campaigning against it for a long time and have written to mps, done consultations etc. I started finishing my own bullocks and selling the beef , I sell it to anti halal people and wouldnt eat meat apart from my own now as I know a fair bit about who you can trust etc. For the record theres a letter in circulation from Jim Paice who did support halal but after visiting a non stun abbatoir he described it as the worst 6 minutes of his life and he then resigned from the group he was on supporting it though I dont think he ever changed his position publicly . Think that was in august, Im not sure but I have the letter. Morrisons dont do halal so if your cattle/ sheep go there its ok. I am your one stop shop for non stun info .

  8. #8
    Senior Member nick...'s Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I think its appalling and they should all bugger of back to where they came from.we have to follow their rules in their countrys but they do what they want in ours.our spineless government should be ashamed.if there was a tv programme about it to educate people ,it would do the halal supporters no good at all and hopefully they would loose trade.and as for farmers supplying them ,they should also be ashamed of their actions
    nick...

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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I currently work in the industry, and also spent two weeks in New Zealand in January looking around 10 plants there.

    I can say without doubt that most of the abbatoirs in the UK (and NZ) pre stun lambs with 1 amp for 3 seconds which renders the lambs unconscious, similar to an epiletic fit. They cannot feel pain at this point - which is similar to undergoing an operation under anaesthetic. If left, without sticking (cutting the throat and major arteries), these animals could recover and be unaffected, usually after about 30-40 seconds. Sticking must take place within 15 seconds of stunning (usually less than 5), and the animal will be clinically dead within 20 seconds following sticking.

    The above is deemed acceptable for most Halal markets. The critical definition is that the animal is not dead before sticking.

    The major retailers would not allow deviation from the above within a plant they are using as a supplier.

    There are various types of Halal, and these do have different standards, but please do not think that most are not stunned sufficiently.

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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by nick... View Post
    I think its appalling and they should all bugger of back to where they came from.we have to follow their rules in their countrys but they do what they want in ours.our spineless government should be ashamed.if there was a tv programme about it to educate people ,it would do the halal supporters no good at all and hopefully they would loose trade.and as for farmers supplying them ,they should also be ashamed of their actions
    nick...
    Agree 100%

  11. #11
    Senior Member nick...'s Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Any farmers on here supplying animals for this barbaric practice care to comment and tell me why they do it
    nick...

  12. #12
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I gather there is an element of Halal that insists that the animal has to be fully aware before slaughter. The Jewish faith presumably uses similar methods but the are only about 10% of the Muslim population. I was peeved that countryfile sanitised the whole thing the other week. A meat eating person I know could not even bare to watch.

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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwall View Post
    I currently work in the industry, and also spent two weeks in New Zealand in January looking around 10 plants there.

    I can say without doubt that most of the abbatoirs in the UK (and NZ) pre stun lambs with 1 amp for 3 seconds which renders the lambs unconscious, similar to an epiletic fit. They cannot feel pain at this point - which is similar to undergoing an operation under anaesthetic. If left, without sticking (cutting the throat and major arteries), these animals could recover and be unaffected, usually after about 30-40 seconds. Sticking must take place within 15 seconds of stunning (usually less than 5), and the animal will be clinically dead within 20 seconds following sticking.

    The above is deemed acceptable for most Halal markets. The critical definition is that the animal is not dead before sticking.

    The major retailers would not allow deviation from the above within a plant they are using as a supplier.

    There are various types of Halal, and these do have different standards, but please do not think that most are not stunned sufficiently.
    This is my experience of halal meat too. The animal was stunned with exactly the same equipment as the non-halal meat, and the only difference is the prayer said at the killing. Chicken is different I think? That is not stunned pre-slaughter as the chances of killing it are too great.

  14. #14

    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by crofteress View Post
    Its been aired on here a few times and most dont want it for obvious reasons. I have been campaigning against it for a long time and have written to mps, done consultations etc. I started finishing my own bullocks and selling the beef , I sell it to anti halal people and wouldnt eat meat apart from my own now as I know a fair bit about who you can trust etc. For the record theres a letter in circulation from Jim Paice who did support halal but after visiting a non stun abbatoir he described it as the worst 6 minutes of his life and he then resigned from the group he was on supporting it though I dont think he ever changed his position publicly . Think that was in august, Im not sure but I have the letter. Morrisons dont do halal so if your cattle/ sheep go there its ok. I am your one stop shop for non stun info .
    you and me need to meet for a beer and do some head scratching, after watching numerous videos going viral online this last couple of weeks of religious slaughtering in the UK I begin to think its time something was done to put a stop to it!!!!!!!

  15. #15
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    It was a while ago I admit, but I remember a programme that showed a slaughter house and the only animals that were well treated where the ones going for religous slaughter, kosher and halal. The animals killed to UK slaughter rules where being pushed about and shouted at and were scared. The religiously slaughtered ones had an altogether better death as the slaughterers were treating them as a gift from their god and were treating them with respect.

    I suspect practise varies as much in both types of slaughter but this lasted in my memory for both the good and bad treatment.

  16. #16

    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by nick... View Post
    Any farmers on here supplying animals for this barbaric practice care to comment and tell me why they do it
    nick...
    one of our local markets has got a muslim buyer there every week buying fat lambs for halal and its a big market of up to 4000 prime lambs every week, im very surprised that stockmen are selling their lambs to him, I know id be sayin take your bid and shove it up your A$$

  17. #17
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I think approximately 20% of the sheepmeat produced in this country is eaten by muslims. 85% of that is properly stunned before slaughter. As other posters have noted, the only difference to normal slaughter for those 85% will be the prayer spoken as they are stuck.

    Jewisk kosher slaughter allows for no pre-stun, but the slaughtermen are highly skilled and tightly regulated by Jewish bodies.

    So, possibly 5% of the sheep in this country are slaughtered by the non-stun halal method. Even so, this is clearly not ideal.

    However, muslims are major customers for our lambs and we should ensure that the debate about halal slaughter does not stray into plain discrimination dressed up as animal welfare concern.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Nithsdale Farmer's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwall View Post
    I currently work in the industry, and also spent two weeks in New Zealand in January looking around 10 plants there.

    I can say without doubt that most of the abbatoirs in the UK (and NZ) pre stun lambs with 1 amp for 3 seconds which renders the lambs unconscious, similar to an epiletic fit. They cannot feel pain at this point - which is similar to undergoing an operation under anaesthetic. If left, without sticking (cutting the throat and major arteries), these animals could recover and be unaffected, usually after about 30-40 seconds. Sticking must take place within 15 seconds of stunning (usually less than 5), and the animal will be clinically dead within 20 seconds following sticking.

    The above is deemed acceptable for most Halal markets. The critical definition is that the animal is not dead before sticking.

    The major retailers would not allow deviation from the above within a plant they are using as a supplier.

    There are various types of Halal, and these do have different standards, but please do not think that most are not stunned sufficiently.

    +1
    If in doubt, yank it out!

  19. #19
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Woolless View Post
    I think approximately 20% of the sheepmeat produced in this country is eaten by muslims. 85% of that is properly stunned before slaughter. As other posters have noted, the only difference to normal slaughter for those 85% will be the prayer spoken as they are stuck.

    Jewisk kosher slaughter allows for no pre-stun, but the slaughtermen are highly skilled and tightly regulated by Jewish bodies.

    So, possibly 5% of the sheep in this country are slaughtered by the non-stun halal method. Even so, this is clearly not ideal.

    However, muslims are major customers for our lambs and we should ensure that the debate about halal slaughter does not stray into plain discrimination dressed up as animal welfare concern.
    This was a Muslim's answer or point recently on rad 4 Any Answers follow up to Any Questions. The programme then played back the relevant part and I must admit it did come over as almost a discrimination by the emphasis on the part of some of the Any Questions panel. Having said that, the halal method is inextricably linked with the Muslim faith.

  20. #20
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I saw Halal head stun slaughter at the plant where our lambs go. It was quick, clean and stress free. Lambs stunned with watered electrodes to head whilst on v-conveyor, straight off the end onto sticking table where a beardie man does the honours with dignity, single cut ear to ear under jawbone and on to the next one whilst previous lamb is hoisted onto the line. About 10 secs per lamb.
    The lamb is in a state of epileptic seizure at the point of sticking and thus insensible, eyes screwed tight shut and sparko, it is debatable if they would fully recover with no degree of brain damage, but Halal requires a "recoverable" stun.
    Full head to back stun would be required to actually kill lamb stone dead, creating an electric path through the heart.
    Contrast this with Kosher kill which AFAIK is always non stunned, sheep and cattle and utterly barbaric.
    Spoke volumes on last Sunday Countryfile, when Halal plant operator was open and factual, but the Rabbi interviewed about Kosher could only offer waffle about how many shots it too to kill a beast with a captive bolt, in a bid to discredit other humane slaughter methods. Outrageous.
    Halal is not the problem.

  21. #21
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Woolless View Post
    I think approximately 20% of the sheepmeat produced in this country is eaten by muslims. 85% of that is properly stunned before slaughter. As other posters have noted, the only difference to normal slaughter for those 85% will be the prayer spoken as they are stuck.

    Jewisk kosher slaughter allows for no pre-stun, but the slaughtermen are highly skilled and tightly regulated by Jewish bodies.

    So, possibly 5% of the sheep in this country are slaughtered by the non-stun halal method. Even so, this is clearly not ideal.

    However, muslims are major customers for our lambs and we should ensure that the debate about halal slaughter does not stray into plain discrimination dressed up as animal welfare concern.
    I am told that in certain places the same person kills for halal and kosher.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Nithsdale Farmer's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by David. View Post
    I saw Halal head stun slaughter at the plant where our lambs go. It was quick, clean and stress free. Lambs stunned with watered electrodes to head whilst on v-conveyor, straight off the end onto sticking table where a beardie man does the honours with dignity, single cut ear to ear under jawbone and on to the next one whilst previous lamb is hoisted onto the line. About 10 secs per lamb.
    The lamb is in a state of epileptic seizure at the point of sticking and thus insensible, eyes screwed tight shut and sparko, it is debatable if they would fully recover with no degree of brain damage, but Halal requires a "recoverable" stun.
    Full head to back stun would be required to actually kill lamb stone dead, creating an electric path through the heart.
    Contrast this with Kosher kill which AFAIK is always non stunned, sheep and cattle and utterly barbaric.
    Spoke volumes on last Sunday Countryfile, when Halal plant operator was open and factual, but the Rabbi interviewed about Kosher could only offer waffle about how many shots it too to kill a beast with a captive bolt, in a bid to discredit other humane slaughter methods. Outrageous.
    Halal is not the problem.

    +1
    halal is not the problem. Too many brand it all as un-stunned slaughter when it is simply not the case. My lamb are all destined for the continent. The lambs are all stunned and killed halal. I am keen to make clear the differance between stunned and non stunned, and openly admit to my lambs being killed in this way. Alot of you may scoff and say its wrong. Atleast i know exactly how my lambs are killed and am satisfied its done humanely. How many farmers can guarentee that?!

    More must be done to make clear Halal does not mean un-stunned slaughter. And more must be done to stop the un-stunned slaughterings.
    If in doubt, yank it out!

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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maus View Post
    I am told that in certain places the same person kills for halal and kosher.
    I think you need some form of religous education!

  24. #24
    Senior Member MerryKerry's Avatar
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    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    I have no problem with regulated, properly done halal. I've seen it right in front of my eyes and in all honesty, it looked much quicker and more dignified than the usual pre-stun way. I would be more than happy for my stock to go this way, the only reason they don't is we have a traditional slaughter house under 2miles away and lack of a long stressful journey trumps the extra moments involved in 'the end'.

    Botched/crap slaughter of any kind is obviously unacceptable.

  25. #25

    Re: HALAL slaughter!

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwall View Post
    I think you need some form of religous education!

    yea +1 on that front, can't see that happening!

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