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Thread: UKIP & the Euro Elections

  1. #1
    Senior Member Bald Rick's Avatar
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    UKIP & the Euro Elections

    With UKIP taking 29% of the vote to the Tories/Labour on 24% and the rest nowhere and allied to a swing to ring wing extremist parties in other EU countries, are we seeing the beginnings of a backlash against the concept of a United Europe or is this just a blip? If the former, there could be interesting consequences for farming over the next few decades. I can see a Northern European Alliance happening.

    Discuss .....

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Are we allowed to discuss politics on here?

    Well... I'll confess that I'm biased since I want out of the EU; but, if you are suggesting a free trade area I'm all for it. Hang on, haven't we heard that before? Let's say a free trade zone without extras, if that is the case I'd support it. That written, I see no problem with a series of bilateral deals.

    But from a purely agricultural viewpoint: farming is going to have to change a lot anyway. I predict a lot more really big enterprises and a lot more small niche-farms. Where this will leave mid-sized farms I don't know, probably the same place as the typical mixed farms of fifty years ago... i.e. nowhere. Not a pleasant thought, but not as bad as it could be.

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    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    I don't want out of the EU. What I do want is a fair deal in the EU. Currently roughly 83 hectares of my 90 hectares is designated land (SAC, NHA, etc). This places restrictions on how I can, or indeed cannot use that land. My land.

    The EU recognises that land, for various reasons,is valued at Ä150 h/a. Currently I receive Ä0h/a on it.

    So, they can impose restrictions on my land, but they refuse to pay for those same restrictions. They (National Parks and Wildlife Service) have been asked if the restrictions have "worked" in achieving the aims they were set out to achieve, being there for nearly 20 years now. The answer? No. They were then asked to lift the restrictions. The answer? No.

    Simply, that is unfair. It is theft of my land for other purposes.

    I do not mind being an "environmental farmer", nor being involved in High Nature Value farming if that's to be the case. But I draw the line at having to eat the scenery to survive.

    For that reason, in the European elections I gave no.1 to an independent Marian Harkin of the ALDE (I think) grouping, and no.2 to "Ming", who is a bit of a leap of faith with me but my two fingers to our current Government. That's coming from a position in the 2011 GE where I voted 1,2,3,4 FOR our current Govt.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Both the main UK parties would cut the SFP faster than the EU. Let's wait and see what domestic policies Ukip come up with, they dropped nearly all of them after 2010.

    Labour will have to agree with a referendum now. Tories will almost certainly be the biggest party in 2015, if Cameron hadn't tried to be the new Blair, Ukip would be far less important than they are now. at least they appear to be important, though in % terms they did less well in the local elections than last time.

    how anyone (apart from miners) could vote for Miliband, I don't know.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    The UKIP landslide is just as much a reflection of how fed up so many people are with the mainstream politics as it is a vote to leave Europe. Many people are just absolutely sick and tired of the same old rhetoric spewing forth from the mouths of professional politicians, many of whom have little or no concept of real life and its problems, who are perceived to be basically just looking after themselves and their party's dogma.

    The Tories may well be getting the country back on its feet financially, but at a terrible cost to so many sectors of society that are struggling to make ends meet.
    Labour and the wretched Mr Millibean are far from credible opposition and most feel that basically they cannot be trusted to run the country properly, though they may well be more sympathetic to the less well off than the current lot of Old Etonians.
    Clegg lost all credibility with his lies over tuition fees. His party have become little more than Tory lapdogs, despised as much by their owners as by other parties; and for the foreseeable future the Liberals would seem to be a spent force.

    Add to all the above factors the perceived widespread corruption and fraudulent expenses claims of so many MP's; disillusionment with many issues such as overt political correctness from all parties, a dilution of our national identity through unfettered immigration and ever increasing interference from European bureaucrats (eg the farcical European court of human rights) etc etc. and it is little wonder that the UKIP bandwagon is a timely and convenient vehicle for a multitude of oppressed and angry voters to willingly climb aboard - and who can blame them?

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    UKIP are doing exactly the same as the Liberals did for years. Promise electors the earth because they knew these promises would never be called upon. When they were finally given the chance there promises turned to dust. The same will happen with UKIP. They are a disparate bunch who give not a toss about the electors.
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    UKIP are doing exactly the same as the Liberals did for years. Promise electors the earth because they knew these promises would never be called upon. When they were finally given the chance there promises turned to dust. The same will happen with UKIP. They are a disparate bunch who give not a toss about the electors.
    In what way are they promising the earth? Farage is about the only main guy in politics that has had a real job before!

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    I notice no one has cared to mention the turn out % in the EU elections. A v low turn out puts the UKIP % of the poll in a completely different light.
    I have a certain feeling of deja vu, I'm old enough to remember the rise of the Social Democratic Party, were they not to change the political landscape in the UK? Where are they now I wonder? Worrying shades of the 1930's with the rise of the ignorant right. Hope I'm wrong. I would suggest that when it comes to the crunch UKIP will get hammered in the 2015 General Election. Its always easy to talk a good game bloody different ball game when you're asked to do it.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Good on UKIP for at least getting a debate on over the immigration etc labour , conservatives and liberal will all pay a fair bit more attention to what kip stand for and I think you will see a big move by all to parties to try and swing some kip votes back to them.
    I can't see ukip ever running the country though but as far as I can see coalition governments of any type are probably a good thing a conservative ukip alliance would be pretty good nothing much will happen but that is probably a good thing !!!!!

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    The thing is, I voted for UKIP because I want my children to have something like the Britain I grew up in. Now, I donít hate anyone because he is foreign or of a different race to me, or because of his religion. But, just because I donít hate someone or think that I am racially Ďsuperiorí to him, it doesnít mean that I want him and his family and a million of his mates to come and live next to me. I donít.

    For too long the left-dominated media and the left-wing itself dominated and suppressed any conversation about immigration by conflating the historic actions of Germany with any mention of 'national' interest. Well, they have had it with that because I and many others won't be bullied or intimidated into silence anymore.

    There are only two reasons why everyone I know voted UKIP: 1) they didnít and donít want mass immigration to the UK; 2) they want to be able to remove the people making laws for them.

    The advantages of having the ability to remove one's lawmakers are self-evident. There are lots of arguments as to why we should close the door to all but urgently needed, skilled immigrants e.g. housing shortage, school place shortage, job shortage etc. etc., but, for me, the strongest reason is that most people just donít want the door left open. I think that reason alone is good enough, or whatís a democracy for?

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    Senior Member T P's Avatar
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    I can't help but wonder if when the UKIP MEP's get their snout into the Euro trough with all it's general office and travel allowances if they won't start to wobble a bit. Only time will tell but with human nature being what it is, it makes me wonder. If the UK left Europe they'd be out od a cushy new job, bit like turkeys voting for xmas. Hmm "maybe we need to think about this for a while in your best interests"

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    In what way are they promising the earth? Farage is about the only main guy in politics that has had a real job before!
    So a commodities trader counts as a real job?
    and he does not promise that all things will be better after leaving the EU
    in any other world Nigel would be seen for what he is, an upper class public school educatederson who believes he knows what is best for the Hoi Poloi. Strangely similar to three other leaders of main stream political parties.
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Well at least their agricultural policy is entrusted to someone who has actually had shit on their boots, a farmer!

    http://www.stuartagnewmep.co.uk/research_centre.php

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    So a commodities trader counts as a real job?
    and he does not promise that all things will be better after leaving the EU
    in any other world Nigel would be seen for what he is, an upper class public school educatederson who believes he knows what is best for the Hoi Poloi. Strangely similar to three other leaders of main stream political parties.
    Yes, commodities trading is a very difficult job! Much more difficult and stressful than farming and only a small minority can make money at it which requires you to be smart and have a very good work ethic. Trust me, I have done both! Farming is a walk in the park in comparison!

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Until those we actually vote FOR get a grip on the un-civil servants there won't be any changes.

    "Yes Minister" should be compulsory viewing for all of us!

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Many a true word said in jest.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    yes its been very interesting over the last week or two if your interested in politics and I know a lot of people aren't.
    the thing that has surprised me is the kind of people that have voted for UKIP this time, they aren't racist as they have been put over by the media, there are all colours and creeds, gay and straight, young and old, some how they seem to have got people who don't vote out as well.
    the working class seem to be switching to them and this is what's surprised me, a large amount of labour and liberal support is moving there way!
    the other parties seem in denial at the moment and don't really know how to deal with it, I personally think it is a big moment for this country and they might well be playing a part in the next election, and maybe hold the balance of power if the scots vote for independence.

    I don't like the eu, so I'd vote out, the thought of non elected people telling us what to do grates with me and bribes off them won't change my mind!
    but the farming side would need some new policies in Britain's sole government. we seem to be sending millions of pounds into the eu every day and taking less out, so the remainder could be used somewhere else if some heads were banged together.
    we are all in this mind-set of receiving the sub off the eu ( I'm no different) so maybe without it there we would have to perform better as farmers, they say the strong survive and the others learn from them so farming could really change for the better if we embrace the challenge.
    there are many slipper farmers who would have a shock, maybe they would be forced to rent ground out to younger farmers and give them a start if the sub was stopped, god knows?
    very turbulent times ahead.

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    Senior Member old-school's Avatar
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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    So a commodities trader counts as a real job?
    and he does not promise that all things will be better after leaving the EU
    in any other world Nigel would be seen for what he is, an upper class public school educatederson who believes he knows what is best for the Hoi Poloi. Strangely similar to three other leaders of main stream political parties.
    So would you prefer a low class uneducated comprehensive school chave . I don't get your point . Or is it inverted snobbery , your point ?

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo View Post

    ..... the thought of non elected people telling us what to do grates with me and bribes off them won't change my mind!
    but the farming side would need some new policies in Britain's sole government. we seem to be sending millions of pounds into
    My very point is that unelected people do tell us what to do. UK is just a smaller version of the EU. Those we vote for have very little actual power.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    This will stir them all up !

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by GNJC View Post
    The thing is, I voted for UKIP because I want my children to have something like the Britain I grew up in. Now, I donít hate anyone because he is foreign or of a different race to me, or because of his religion. But, just because I donít hate someone or think that I am racially Ďsuperiorí to him, it doesnít mean that I want him and his family and a million of his mates to come and live next to me. I donít.

    For too long the left-dominated media and the left-wing itself dominated and suppressed any conversation about immigration by conflating the historic actions of Germany with any mention of 'national' interest. Well, they have had it with that because I and many others won't be bullied or intimidated into silence anymore.

    There are only two reasons why everyone I know voted UKIP: 1) they didnít and donít want mass immigration to the UK; 2) they want to be able to remove the people making laws for them.

    The advantages of having the ability to remove one's lawmakers are self-evident. There are lots of arguments as to why we should close the door to all but urgently needed, skilled immigrants e.g. housing shortage, school place shortage, job shortage etc. etc., but, for me, the strongest reason is that most people just donít want the door left open. I think that reason alone is good enough, or whatís a democracy for?
    UKIP are a one trick pony and the thought of them actually being in charge of this country brings me out in a cold sweat. I'd rather hand the whole lot to the EU than let the bloke get his hands on our government!!!

    As for being able to stop immigration or wanting the country to revert to 1920 or something, those days are long past, Britain has ALWAYS been a multicultural country with a sizable migrant workforce.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Joyce View Post
    Until those we actually vote FOR get a grip on the un-civil servants there won't be any changes.

    "Yes Minister" should be compulsory viewing for all of us!
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    I find it extremely interesting that so many people want to leave the union, and that people are fed up of decisions and laws that affect them being made by faceless politicians miles away from where they live. Seem a Yes vote in Scotland is a foregone conclusion.

    Oh, sorry, we were talking about UKIP

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    something people seem to have forgotten about is UKIPs policies, many people think they are a one trick pony at the moment but I recon ferage is a smarter chap than we think.
    they are currently re writing their manifesto for the election, so it could totally F*ck the other parties up if their not careful.
    what if he decides to kick many of the harder benefit policy changes the government have done in the last few years into touch and start reinstating some of the lost benefits, that could make a hell of a lot of people vote for him!

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    I'm guessing that UKIP are going to damage Labour as much as the Tories and the Lib Dems are done for. Possible Tory / UKIP pact or another co govt? If the Lib Dems are decimated, Labour will have nobody to get into bed with.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Joyce View Post
    My very point is that unelected people do tell us what to do. UK is just a smaller version of the EU. Those we vote for have very little actual power.
    Just about all our regulations (including electronic tagging in sheep, mapping for SFP, NVZ zones etc) were introduced by unelected bodies.

    In some cases our elected MPs ( or MEPs) have an opportunity to vote against them, but most are content to have an easy life and go along with them.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo View Post
    something people seem to have forgotten about is UKIPs policies, many people think they are a one trick pony at the moment but I recon ferage is a smarter chap than we think.
    they are currently re writing their manifesto for the election, so it could totally F*ck the other parties up if their not careful.
    what if he decides to kick many of the harder benefit policy changes the government have done in the last few years into touch and start reinstating some of the lost benefits, that could make a hell of a lot of people vote for him!
    Is that not a little unlikely? Would that not reduce credibility with the very folk that have been voting in that direction?

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    UKIP are a one trick pony and the thought of them actually being in charge of this country brings me out in a cold sweat. I'd rather hand the whole lot to the EU than let the bloke get his hands on our government!!!

    As for being able to stop immigration or wanting the country to revert to 1920 or something, those days are long past, Britain has ALWAYS been a multicultural country with a sizable migrant workforce.
    Well... I was born in the 1970s, but that is an aside. Think about what you have written, you are ridiculing the idea of two things: 1) our country being able to control its borders; 2) the will of a majority of the people. I guess you can dismiss that, but ignoring the mass of a population has always, anywhere been a dangerous thing.

    UKIP is a young party and certainly does need to get more professional (but not too much!) but it is not and never has been against immigration. It is, and I am, against mass immigration. People coming to do jobs we can't fill is a rational thing, allowing in vast numbers of Romanian or Bangladeshi peasants (in the literal sense of the word) simply doesn't appeal to me and I can't see a rational reason for either having done so or continuing to do so.

    Britain is an island not a country, but it has indeed had many cultures for a long time, from Cornwall to Sutherland and from Carms to Herts, cultures and languages and accents and songs etc. etc.. But it seems odd that in a modern democracy we are having multiculturalism imposed upon us, but then I guess you think Ed, Dave and Nick know what's best for us.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by GNJC View Post
    The thing is, I voted for UKIP because I want my children to have something like the Britain I grew up in.

    Quote Originally Posted by GNJC View Post
    Well... I was born in the 1970s,
    So, you'd like the return of British Leyland, the three day week, powercuts and Love Thy Neighbour on the telly?

    To be fair, i think those are some of the few things UKIP could deliver.

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    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    To come out of Europe would be a disaster, free trade would stop overnight. Currently moving goods in and out across Europe is simple. But some of the daftness coming out of Europe needs moderating eg Driver CPC.
    The Best way to control mass immigration would be to cut the riduculous benefits system we have in this country. If your lazy on the dole you should get enough cash for a tin of beans and thats it. Go and look for work. The reason the immigrants are coming in is to fill jobs that many of the lazy brits dont want. There is entire towns of 1st and 2nd generation families thinking its exceptable to do F all all day and get money for it.
    There are jobs out there, we have really struggled on staff this year.

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