Page 3 of 8 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 223

Thread: UKIP & the Euro Elections

  1. #61
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    south scotland
    Posts
    756

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoaktree View Post
    When is subsidy in what ever form it may by called to be stopped then ?
    Read what I wrote £100 acer land price in your Utopian world
    I see what you mean, is it £100 per acre is the price of land?
    I dont think that is likely.

  2. #62
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    535

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by danseyspass View Post
    Subsidy is NOT here to stay,
    When is subsidy in what ever form it may by called to be stopped then ?

  3. #63
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,328

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    So, just to be clear, you're happy to get a free handout at the taxpayers' expense, but you think that people who get income support because they're unemployed are scroungers? How does that work, exactly?
    It's not a "free handout at taxpayer's expense" Never has been. It is a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer. We all like to farm but if we were losing shed loads of money, year after year, we would all get fed up with it and go and do something else. Think back to the 30s. My Father took a decent arable/grass farm at 6 months no rent and 6 months half rent. Why ? Not because it had been let go but because nobody else wanted it. Dad got lucky because along came a war and suddenly farmers were lovely and popular.

    And incidentally, your implied comment that compares unemployed scroungers with the people who, by and large feed the nation is, in my view, extremely insulting.

  4. #64
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    It's not a "free handout at taxpayer's expense" Never has been. It is a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer.
    How does it do that then? Single farm payment is not linked to production in any way, you don't have to produce food in order to claim it, it's essentially a financial reward for owning land.


    And incidentally, your implied comment that compares unemployed scroungers with the people who, by and large feed the nation is, in my view, extremely insulting.
    What, and calling all the people who are unfortunate enough to have to claim benefits "unemployed scroungers" isn't?

  5. #65
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,328

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    How does it do that then? Single farm payment is not linked to production in any way, you don't have to produce food in order to claim it, it's essentially a financial reward for owning land.
    No, it's a financial reward for being the custodian of land, which can be owned or tenanted, that in most cases also produces food. It is also a sop to the bunny huggers and the environmentalists who perceive that farmers are now getting paid to look after their interests as well. With a few very notable exceptions farmers have always been the best custodians of the countryside.


    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    What, and calling all the people who are unfortunate enough to have to claim benefits "unemployed scroungers" isn't?
    Who mentioned "all" ? You keep having to put extra bits in to make your case. If you are honestly of the opinion that the benefits system in this country is not abused by a large proportion of the recipients then maybe you should go to Calais and tell them that it's all lies what they have heard. And while you're there hop over to North Africa and them that the English system is for the needy, not the greedy.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Wee Dram's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Fife
    Posts
    189

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    How does it do that then? Single farm payment is not linked to production in any way, you don't have to produce food in order to claim it, it's essentially a financial reward for owning land

    A year or two back the SAC said that the average suckler cow in Scotland was losing it's owner £300 a year before SFP. Most of these cows are still running about today prob still losing there owners money so it seems that the only thing propping up beef production is SFP

  7. #67
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    No, it's a financial reward for being the custodian of land, which can be owned or tenanted, that in most cases also produces food. It is also a sop to the bunny huggers and the environmentalists who perceive that farmers are now getting paid to look after their interests as well. With a few very notable exceptions farmers have always been the best custodians of the countryside.
    Exactly, it's an environmental subsidy, so how is it "a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer?




    Who mentioned "all" ?
    The post i quoted was pretty much all encompassing....

    You keep having to put extra bits in to make your case. If you are honestly of the opinion that the benefits system in this country is not abused by a large proportion of the recipients then maybe you should go to Calais and tell them that it's all lies what they have heard. And while you're there hop over to North Africa and them that the English system is for the needy, not the greedy.
    as is that, to be fair.

  8. #68
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    535

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    How does it do that then? Single farm payment is not linked to production in any way, you don't have to produce food in order to claim it, it's essentially a financial reward for owning land
    "As for claiming SPS on land your not farming being legal, it certainly is - but then its also legal to have sex with your 2nd cousin. Doesnt make it right though, does it?
    The subsidies are there to secure food production and to keep it within a modest production price so its affordable for the population to live. Not for you to become bone-idle, lazy and to fund a social lifestyle whilst you ruin the land."


    Your words joey which I think might prove something

  9. #69
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,328

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    Exactly, it's an environmental subsidy, so how is it "a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer?
    It's not an environmental subsidy at all. ELS, HLS, et al were the sops to the greenies courtesy of the EU and the majority of food producers took advantage of them because the financial figures gained from them made sense to do so.

  10. #70
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    It's not an environmental subsidy at all. ELS, HLS, et al were the sops to the greenies courtesy of the EU and the majority of food producers took advantage of them because the financial figures gained from them made sense to do so.
    It is an environmental subsidy, the EU has moved away from direct production subsidies because of objections by the Americans

    You said that SFP is "a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer?"

    Can you explain how it does this?

  11. #71
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    535

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    What are you on about now?
    Your full of it! In this thread you say SFP has nowt to do with food production but in another thread you say it has


    You wrote this


    "As for claiming SPS on land your not farming being legal, it certainly is - but then its also legal to have sex with your 2nd cousin. Doesnt make it right though, does it?
    The subsidies are there to secure food production and to keep it within a modest production price so its affordable for the population to live. Not for you to become bone-idle, lazy and to fund a social lifestyle whilst you ruin the land

    Then this

    How does it do that then? Single farm payment is not linked to production in any way, you don't have to produce food in order to claim it, it's essentially a financial reward for owning land.

    Which one is your view today your just winding people up !

  12. #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoaktree View Post
    Your full of it! In this thread you say SFP has nowt to do with food production but in another thread you say it has


    You wrote this
    Link?




    Which one is your view today your just winding people up !
    I'd imagine my view today would be the one i expressed today, wouldn't you?

  13. #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    535

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Find it yourself you wrote it one says SFP has nowt to do with food production according to you but another say it has ! Which is it ?

  14. #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoaktree View Post
    Find it yourself you wrote it one says SFP has nowt to do with food production according to you but another say it has ! Which is it ?
    You're claiming I've said that, if that's the case, link to it.

  15. #75
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    2,820

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, it's what the forum is about, but i do have a problem when people make personal attacks on me, deliberately misrepresent what I've said or, in this case, tell blatant lies in an attempt to discredit me. It's very poor show and is not in the spirit of the forum.
    Fair point, so lets get it back on track.

    I feel a UKIP goverment would be a bit limited in many respects, and I think abandoning the EU would ultimately be a mistake for the UK and not least the agricultural industry.

    As for subsidies, their removal would never lower the price of red diesel, fertiliser, feed or agchems, that is a pipe dream. I don't think it would raise the milk price or that of corn or beef either, since all are ultimately based on world market movements.

  16. #76
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    157

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    No, it's a financial reward for being the custodian of land, which can be owned or tenanted, that in most cases also produces food. It is also a sop to the bunny huggers and the environmentalists who perceive that farmers are now getting paid to look after their interests as well. With a few very notable exceptions farmers have always been the best custodians of the countryside.




    Who mentioned "all" ? You keep having to put extra bits in to make your case. If you are honestly of the opinion that the benefits system in this country is not abused by a large proportion of the recipients then maybe you should go to Calais and tell them that it's all lies what they have heard. And while you're there hop over to North Africa and them that the English system is for the needy, not the greedy.
    No it is a financial reward for how much food you produced in 2000-2002, well at least it has been in N.ireland, Scotland & Wales. I know people with £300k of SFP because they were cattle dealers who punched thousands of cattle in those years and now do nothing!! Total disgrace!

  17. #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,328

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    Exactly, it's an environmental subsidy, so how is it "a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer?
    If I have to explain that then all is lost.

    And am I correct in thinking that the SFP and anything else that you make a claim for is accepted grudgingly ?

  18. #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,456

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Fair point, so lets get it back on track.

    I feel a UKIP goverment would be a bit limited in many respects, and I think abandoning the EU would ultimately be a mistake for the UK and not least the agricultural industry.

    As for subsidies, their removal would never lower the price of red diesel, fertiliser, feed or agchems, that is a pipe dream. I don't think it would raise the milk price or that of corn or beef either, since all are ultimately based on world market movements.
    I'd agree. I don't think removing subsidies would have any bearing on the price of inputs. the current system of arbitrary area based payments does have an effect of rental values and the price of land to buy though. As we discussed on the other thread it encourages farmers who would in the past have retired to hold onto land and large estates and other landowners to take land back in hand rather than let it out. I do think it's acting as a barrier to people getting a start in the industry.

    Removing subsidy would be problematic particularly for many upland farms which wouldn't be viable without it, i do think the industry as a whole would be better off without the majority of subsidy though. the good farmers with sound business plans would do well, and the opportunities would be there for those who wanted to get on.

  19. #79
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1,328

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    No it is a financial reward for how much food you produced in 2000-2002, well at least it has been in N.ireland, Scotland & Wales. I know people with £300k of SFP because they were cattle dealers who punched thousands of cattle in those years and now do nothing!! Total disgrace!
    Well technically you are correct of course but it has become skewed more towards abiding by lots of rules & regulations plus incentives to join various environmental schemes. But the fact it is money, the same sort that rewarded us to produce food and without it times would undoubtedly become very difficult for some people. Whatever money comes as a result of the CAP allows a lot of people to continue to farm.

    Of course there will always be the people who will find loopholes in any scheme. MP's expenses and banker's bonuses ring a bell ?

  20. #80
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    south scotland
    Posts
    756

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    Fair point, so lets get it back on track.

    I feel a UKIP goverment would be a bit limited in many respects, and I think abandoning the EU would ultimately be a mistake for the UK and not least the agricultural industry.

    As for subsidies, their removal would never lower the price of red diesel, fertiliser, feed or agchems, that is a pipe dream. I don't think it would raise the milk price or that of corn or beef either, since all are ultimately based on world market movements.
    Red deisel may not decrease in price if susidy was stopped, but it was certainly was increased by adding duty back in 1998 by crash gordon in response to the large iacs subsidies then being paid to farmers.

    Fert and agchems are basically monopolies in the UK, and they charge what the market will stand , which without sfp would be a lot less.
    Anyone who doubts this needs to look at the price of inputs in New Zealand which are in most cases cheaper than here.

    Rent for land would drop substantially if sfp was stopped, and landlords would start looking for tenants again to take on loss making land. That is a double effect.

  21. #81
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    south scotland
    Posts
    756

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoaktree View Post
    Might have got it a bit wrong but your still full of shit and a forum bully I'm defo not embarrassed I about what I posted whiskey haze got me last night !
    Now as for danssey pansy when will sub to farmers stop you tell me that then I'll answer your questions !

    I'm on holiday in one of my 2nd homes which I rent out to holiday makers who pay good money to me ! And the people who helpe me run this make a good few quid .So I've got wifi on my phone so to any one who cares I'll stand by what I said about joey boy apart from the wrong quote .
    I think I can see the bigger picture not just the farming side of things !
    I also think anyone who says they can farming without sub is either a land owner with no debt or on a very cheep rent what bull shit boys say and forum bully's say is not overly true in my opinion !
    I tried to keep off the forum but failed ! I'm off to help this local economy now ������������������
    Subs will stop when UKIP and the Tories takes us out of the EU, which is now a racing certainty i would say.
    And it will be no bad thing.

  22. #82
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    CORNWALL
    Posts
    141

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by danseyspass View Post
    Subs will stop when UKIP and the Tories takes us out of the EU, which is now a racing certainty i would say.
    And it will be no bad thing.
    I agree with this , perhaps we wont see so many new landrovers and top of the range tractors around then.The small non farmer contractor could get a look in then.

  23. #83
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    420

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    It's not a "free handout at taxpayer's expense" Never has been. It is a way of subsidising the cost of food to the consumer. We all like to farm but if we were losing shed loads of money, year after year, we would all get fed up with it and go and do something else. Think back to the 30s. My Father took a decent arable/grass farm at 6 months no rent and 6 months half rent. Why ? Not because it had been let go but because nobody else wanted it. Dad got lucky because along came a war and suddenly farmers were lovely and popular.

    And incidentally, your implied comment that compares unemployed scroungers with the people who, by and large feed the nation is, in my view, extremely insulting.
    Absolutely correct, the only thing I would add is that the "food industry" as a whole also do very nicely out of it as they get a much cheaper raw material to work with.

    If it was just for the benefit of the farmer only it wouldn't be there another week, or to be accurate it probably never would have been there in the first place, not in the UK anyway.

  24. #84
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    2,820

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by MISTERTUBBY2 View Post
    I agree with this , perhaps we wont see so many new landrovers and top of the range tractors around then.The small non farmer contractor could get a look in then.
    This statement just smacks of sour grapes I'm afraid.

  25. #85
    Senior Member wr.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Breconshire
    Posts
    931

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by MISTERTUBBY2 View Post
    I agree with this , perhaps we wont see so many new landrovers and top of the range tractors around then.The small non farmer contractor could get a look in then.
    It's because these chaps change their nearly new tractors when the ashtray is full, that we can buy tidy second hand.

  26. #86
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    south scotland
    Posts
    756

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    This statement just smacks of sour grapes I'm afraid.
    Mr Tubby makes a very good point about subsidies, which have distorted everything, and which enriches a certain class of person who are definitely well rich enough already.
    Not only does it further enrich them, but discourages them from selling or letting land to younger would be farmers, which is a double negative effect.

  27. #87
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    420

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by MISTERTUBBY2 View Post
    I agree with this , perhaps we wont see so many new landrovers and top of the range tractors around then.The small non farmer contractor could get a look in then.
    Farming in some areas is definitely getting ridiculous, watched a local contractor hopping across 3 and 4 acre fields yesterday with a "Big M" mowing grass, spent more time squavering about than mowing and TBH looked a bit silly!

    Obviously a distorted system evolving that supports such inefficiency.

    No guarantee of things improving immediately outside the EU but at least a chance to improve longer term. Not a cat in hells chance of things improving within it, only more and more mindless regulation served up with a little SFP relish to make it more appealing.

  28. #88
    Senior Member Bald Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anglesey
    Posts
    1,010

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections


  29. #89
    Senior Member JohnGalway's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Connemara, Ireland.
    Posts
    281

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Bald Rick View Post
    Love the after the next election stuff, sounds like the lets repeal the hunting ban promise of a few years ago.

  30. #90
    Senior Member Sam_TM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Cleveland. UK
    Posts
    582

    Re: UKIP & the Euro Elections

    In the hope of steering this topic back on track, Iíve deleted several of the posts containing pointless, petty, personal comments.

    Please stick on-topic.
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion, you mightnít agree with it, but thatís never a reason to resort to making petty personal remarks to any forum member.

    Thanks
    Sam
    British Farming Forum on Facebook - www.facebook.com/groups/BritishFarmingForum

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •