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Thread: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    As requested by a fellow BFF member a few pics and discriptions on a matbro overhaul I did earlier this year.


    Matbro TR250-110 year 1997, hours just 3800 believed to be genuine? had a very neglected/poor service history. even so I was shocked by all the problems it had once I got stuck in!

    Originally machine came in to the workshop with a transmission fault, loss of 3rd and 4th gears from memory, which was a internal fault in the box.

    So first off came the cab, and pulled the box out ready to be repaired by a handy chap I know
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    Last edited by ACE; 20-03-15 at 09:42 PM.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    The Universal joints on transmission input shaft were well pass there best so new ones were fitted, spot the difference on the new UJs. one was from my old stock as per original other was supplied by one of the top matbro parts firms in the UK and is a cheap equivalent! was not pleased with quality of it or the fitting of it.
    (worth noting that the fixing bolts for the transmission propshaft universal joints look almost identical at both ends, they are not! They are different threads don't mix them up)

    Also the flexible drive coupling to the flywheel had had a new rubber part fitted in recent years but they never replaced the cup and cone PTFE lined bearings in the centre of the coupling which were all loose and causing a nasty rattle and vibration at engine idle quite common problem, infact I got to do one on a TR250 powershift next week.

    New PTFE bearings were fitted and tightened up, best not to tighten them up solid as then the rubber part does not take out the shock loading but still the bearings need to be quite tight as they will settle in and come loose quick otherwise.
    I also greased them rightly or wrongly? some people said not to others said grease them. the argument was that the grease swells the PTFE lining and makes them tighter after use? Local bearing shop said it would be fine greased so that what I did seems okay so far.
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    Last edited by ACE; 20-03-15 at 09:47 PM.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    While waiting for the trany to come back from being repaired, I wheeled it out side and spent ages steam cleaning it off.

    That's when I start noticing a few more things

    The oil cooler for the transmission was hanging off and had been rubbing heavily on the steel hyd pipe that takes main oil flow of the pump to the steering priority valve.
    Replacing it in rubber was an option although would have been a tight fit, so bought 2 compression fitting joiners and a short length of new steel pipe and cut the bad piece out and rejoined it. was a neat job in the end and much cheaper than replacing with rubber as would had to have been multi spirel hose to take the pressure.

    Then made a could new piece of angle to weld back on the hyd pump mounting plate and then 2 big exhaust clamps to hold the cooler. Worked well.

    New universal joints were also fitted to the hyd pump drive shaft, got some decent sealed for life ones as they never grease them anyways so should last better as they had decent grease seal to hold what grease there was in them. New fan belts were fitted too although I didn't bother with the aircon belt as that was not part of the refurb to get aircon working.
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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Engine oil cooler was taken off and resealed, along with resetting the valve clearances.

    A new Gear reduction starter was also fitted to replace the cheap lucas copy that was on it and was differcult to start, (already had a decent 1000amp battery)

    A recored radiator was also fitted and one or two new rad hoses plus new thermostat and seals etc.

    Transmission also gone back in with 1 new oil cooler hose and some steering hoses and a few others replaced too. Also took all the threaded adaptors out of the steering priority valve and replaced the orings which were rock hard and no doubt leaking, loads of locitite was also used so hope I don't have to go there again!

    Also had a bit of hassle repairing the multipin plugs on the wiring looms, this one pictured is the chassis to engine loom plug and was the worst one, I ended up replacing all the pins male and female in that plug but later I ended up replacing several other pins in the plugs connecting the cab to chassis as well. Not a differcult job but very time consuming. And had to buy a couple of special tools to get the pins out with out knackering the housings, identifying the correct pins for the plugs took a lot of time and head scratching too.

    Now it was about this time that I reaslised there was quite a lot of movement on the rear diff pinion bearings hadn't noticed that when taking transmission out as just spun the uj bolts out with cordless impact wench and never looked at pinion shaft. So took the diff pinion shaft housing out of the axle and stripped it on the bench, checked it and it looked okay so put it back together and tightened it up nice and tight with correct shims in it.
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    Last edited by ACE; 28-10-14 at 10:21 PM.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Running out of pics now, did have loads but must have deleted them.

    A lot of time was spent on the cab too, the windscreen was hanging out as rust had got behind the sealant/bond. plus the screen was scratched bad so I took it all out and cleaned the rust up, which then ended up cleaning the cab floor and painting that too, the roof glass had been replaced by plastic so that was taken out and new glass fitted too at same time as windscreen, I decided to fit all the glass myself for some reason but bought the proper bonding kit off ebay for it which was not that dear really, would normally just use normal panel bonder never had one fall out yet but was not taking a chance with this one as windscreen is curved and quite pricey.

    A new air seat was also fitted, and another common issue is the plastic mounding for the joystick, it was split bad were the stick bolts in, these plastic mouldings are very expensive, so cleaned it up made a metal ring to fit the joystick base which I then bonded to the inside of the plastic moulding using PU panel bonder, then used nuts on the joystick mounting screws to clamp it all in tight, worked really well and is much stronger than it ever was before. (a reconditioned joystick was also fitted as that had a fault too)

    Now I had sorted the transmission/engine and cab etc I turned to the business end! the boom was not quite as good as first thought
    Was told it had had a brand new inner boom fitted by main dealer only 18months ago, well it had but they just bolted all the crap bits off the old one back in the new one

    First 3 pics are of the main lift ram the bearing had broken up and worn in to the ram eye and the pin so the eye was built up with weld and remachined back to standard by local hyd ram shop.
    and a new bearing/pin fitted. I think I resealed the ram too while we were at it?

    Then I took the tilt ram out of the boom and found similar bearing broken up and worn ram eye this time on the rod end, at some stage the eye had been welded to the rod too should be threaded on. Then I found the tilt ram lock out valve was damaged, the seat were the orings sit had picked up in the bore were the valve screws in and damaged the seats were they should seal so I decided the ram was uneconomic to repair and sourced a replacement, in the end I got a brand new ram for a terex complete with new bearings and lock valve fitted and fitted it straight in job done. Most hydraulic hoses on the boom and too the boom were replaced aswell. other pins and bushes were okay so left alone.
    Fitted a new nose cone/cover to the end of the boom to stop crap going down boom also. old one was missing and new boom had not been drilled for it to fit either.
    Worth noting that the new boom was an improved version with a stronger tilt ram mounting lugs in it.
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    Last edited by ACE; 20-03-15 at 09:33 PM.

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    Senior Member davidroberts30's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    good thread

    thought you did a thread on a 250110 a while back?

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by davidroberts30 View Post
    good thread

    thought you did a thread on a 250110 a while back?
    Yes sort of that was a TR250 powershift not the 110.

    Would be better if I could find all the pictures I took. When doing a big job like this pictures on the phone are dead handy for when it comes to putting it back together.

    Instead of thinking "now then how did I sling this gearbox when I took it out?" I just look at the picture and copy

    Handy to see routing of pipes and things too.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Notice the old style UCC fuel cap, I hate these things they are expensive and always leak water in as the gasket/seal to the top inspection plate that bolts to tank is poor.
    So bought this filler neck and cap off ebay, the flange were it bolts to is just big enough to redrill the plate, the cap does not have a breather in it but that does not matter as the tank has a separate breather anyway.
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    Last edited by ACE; 20-03-15 at 09:34 PM.

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Now last month I had to go back to the machine on site as they were having fuel trouble! Now I know the tank was spotless as I cleaned it and every thing was good as I replaced anything that was not.

    Found the trouble straight away, straw blocking the suction pipe in tank elbow cleaned it out and went though the rest of the system. but still had problem with getting fuel out of tank so took the inspection plate off and felt around in a half full tank to pull more straw off the dip tube inside. then reaslised something was very wrong! as bottom of tank was full of what I though at the time was gravel!

    Drained the tank out and cleaned it out, the new filler I put on and the fuel sender gauge was very rusty, then the penny dropped it was rock salt in the tank! someone had chucked a few good handfuls of road deicing salt in the tank plus abit of straw too.
    if it hadn't been for the straw it would have kept running but for how long I don't know?

    After cleaning it all out etc and running it up all seems fine Made a latch to cover the top of the new filler cap to reduce the risk of it happening again.

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Thanks very much ACE very informative, thanks again

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    Also the flexible drive coupling to the flywheel had had a new rubber part fitted in recent years but they never replaced the cup and cone PTFE lined bearings in the centre of the coupling which were all loose and causing a nasty rattle and vibration at engine idle quite common problem, infact I got to do one on a TR250 powershift next week.

    New PTFE bearings were fitted and tightened up, best not to tighten them up solid as then the rubber part does not take out the shock loading but still the bearings need to be quite tight as they will settle in and come loose quick otherwise.
    I also greased them rightly or wrongly? some people said not to others said grease them. the argument was that the grease swells the PTFE lining and makes them tighter after use? Local bearing shop said it would be fine greased so that what I did seems okay so far.
    We cut a hole in the cab floor behind the seat to get at this coupling to replace it on our T250. Also lightly grease the ptfe bearing, never had it give a problem.
    You really clean them up well, may have one for you in the spring.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Maervale View Post
    We cut a hole in the cab floor behind the seat to get at this coupling to replace it on our T250. Also lightly grease the ptfe bearing, never had it give a problem.
    You really clean them up well, may have one for you in the spring.
    You must have cut hole out on a tr250-110? As a standatd tr250 has the cab heater box under the seat.
    I normally just undo all cab mounts an jack cab up couple inches on the right and block it up with wood then jack the left side up as far as it will go normally have to disconnect handbrake cable and pipes on brake pedal.
    The take left rear wheel off and sit on the trumpet to reach in.

    Sounds like a back breaker taking seat out and reaching down though hope in cab floor? Done enough of that working on manitou mla. My back cant take that sort of thing anymore sadly.

    I did cut floor out on a terex t200 once more of a modification as already had cab off but though it would be worth the effort for another day.

    Yes if taking cab off etc then its the perfect time to get in with steam cleaner. Should fit an hour clock on the steamer really not many days go by with out it being used. Getting fed up with working on machines that are plasted in muck and oil. Anoys me even more when people just dont make any effort to clean there machines once in a while! Know people that buy a steam cleaner use it once then leave it in shed and forget about it, would be handy if they had it all plumbed in ready to switch on and go. Then I would give them the once over myself.

    Some clean there machines but only the outside and dont get in to it as they are to scared to clean engines transmissions etc. Which is anoying as thats just were I want it clean.

  13. #13

    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    T250 Terex.
    Yes it's a bit of a git getting the seat out on your own. But changing that coupling doesn't take long and it's easy to grease that impossible to reach UJ!

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    250.110 itsnot to you drive something else (628 mla) that you see where the matbro out classed its competitors. great reach and height,better cab layout,easier cab access and to me a better hydraulics compared to the mla which run fast and slow depending on the revs of engine lsu not sweet. ps ace,a picture tells a 1000 words

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by zsnotdead View Post
    250.110 itsnot to you drive something else (628 mla) that you see where the matbro out classed its competitors. great reach and height,better cab layout,easier cab access and to me a better hydraulics compared to the mla which run fast and slow depending on the revs of engine lsu not sweet. ps ace,a picture tells a 1000 words
    The manitou lsu hydraulics are great when they were new and set up right. But suffered many niggles. The new type hydraulic pump makes a world of difference but it'll cost an arm and a leg. Any one reading this that has any knackered mla pumps no matter how bad dont scrap them send them to me please I have a use for them! Pm me.

    In case anyones interested a mla rear axle diff came in to day. Limited slip plates shot in it and due to the way the gears preload the plates there was so much wear in the plates it stripped the teeth on the little diff gears! Only about 3500 hrs on machine. Never seen this happen before! Lucky got a front axle off a mlt breaking and diff unit is the same so doing a swap round. Oddly the scrap axle came off a manitou with 5500 hrs on it and the limited slip diff is in what looks like new condition! You can still see the part number in white paint or ink stamped in to the friction disc material!

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Maervale View Post
    T250 Terex.
    Yes it's a bit of a git getting the seat out on your own. But changing that coupling doesn't take long and it's easy to grease that impossible to reach UJ!
    That uj is easy enough. Lay under engine hand up left hand side of bell housing locate nipple possibly turn crank via fan blades so its in right position and back under feeling round left side normally with left hand for me. I long grease hose is best and for me squeeze the trigger on my cordless gun. Job done. You telling me you take seat out to grease it! Bet you dont do that often

    The terex version is just as good as the old matbro and later models had improvements to boom and a few other things. The very last t250 had later type 1100 series engines and different rads which due to there design were more differcult to clean there for alot get overheated and start blowing gaskets but its all avoidable if rads kept clean properly.

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    Senior Member Richard_W's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    great thread ACE, thanks for posting!

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by ACE View Post
    That uj is easy enough. Lay under engine hand up left hand side of bell housing locate nipple possibly turn crank via fan blades so its in right position and back under feeling round left side normally with left hand for me. I long grease hose is best and for me squeeze the trigger on my cordless gun. Job done. You telling me you take seat out to grease it! Bet you dont do that often

    The terex version is just as good as the old matbro and later models had improvements to boom and a few other things. The very last t250 had later type 1100 series engines and different rads which due to there design were more differcult to clean there for alot get overheated and start blowing gaskets but its all avoidable if rads kept clean properly.
    Never had overheating problems except once buckracking on what was like hay, dust and small grass bits everywhere.
    No I don't take the seat out to grease it, I made a removable cover behind the seat, just lift the matting and take it out.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    This was the TR250 powershift I had in last week, had worn/loose bearing in the rubber flywheel KTR coupling, so up with the cab and ended up doing propshaft UJs, new rubber for the coupling and a new pair of PTFE lined bearings. I had done this before on this machine some 10years ago, the original drive coupling had failed and parts were not available for it so replaced it with the coupling off the later machines.

    Also had to replace the main hydraulic pressure hose off the pump too as that had wire hanging out of it.

    As you can see once I got to the flywheel I found a load of black snot in the bell housing from a leaking crank seal, so with some differculty got the flywheel off and replaced the seal and gasket, was not keen on taking cab off this one as back in 2003 it had major wiring loom repairs as it had a fire in the engine bay and did a lot of wiring damage, engine loom and chassis loom had to make/repair the looms as could not get new ones, took ages and we skimped on the multi plugs! it does have some but they are different and fitted from the inside of the cab and didn't fancy making extra work with the wiring and possibly causing more issues.
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    Last edited by ACE; 20-03-15 at 09:38 PM.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Also sorted the MLA diff out, sorry not got pictures of the old one but its the same as this one just metal to metal on the diff plates and the gears all chewed up!

    The used one that had done 5500hrs hours and been sat outside with one trumpet housing off the axle for a number of years was in fine condition, the plates were not worn at all, if you look close you can see the white stamped part numbers in the friction material! only thing I had to replace was one of the diff carrier bearings on the side that had been open to elements as it was rusty, other than that just swapped the customer crown wheel to the used diff unit, set preload on bearings and then checked the teeth meshing with engineers blue and job done, customer had removed axle and trumpets himself so was happy putting rest back together himself including resealing the brake pistons which now have an improved one piece seal to replace the oring and back ring.

    Oh I also knocked out the bronze bushings that the whole axle pivots on (they weren't worn but had turned 90deg in the housing very common thing) I have tried Loctite and metal epoxy etc etc and non of them work they always seem to spin round which when you grease it becomes a problem as the grease holes end up at the bottom not the top were its needed. So I now bond the bushes in the housings using panel bonder or windscreen adhesive, this seems to work well as sticks like poo to a blanket but has a bit of flex in it, unlike the hard setting Loctite etc which seems to crack the bond in time. New bushes in a new housing are hardly what I would call a tight fit anyway!

    You do have to be a bit carefull not to fill the grease grove in the housing with panel bonder though! I coat half the bush and half the housing so this does not happen.
    again should have took more pics this panel bonder trick also works really well with the older type Manitou bushes that are plastic
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Ace - what's your general approach to repairing slack in the elongated Ram eye's and mounts?

    I'm needing to tighten up the tilt on my old Teleram 3 I've found some good bronze bushes and shims etc but I'm not sure what the best tactic is where some of the pin mounts have worn elongated if that makes sense (mainly the two in the tilt link that connects to the headstock, and the one at the bottom of the tilt pivot that connects to the link - if that makes sense).

    Cheers

    Dave

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstien View Post
    Ace - what's your general approach to repairing slack in the elongated Ram eye's and mounts?

    I'm needing to tighten up the tilt on my old Teleram 3 I've found some good bronze bushes and shims etc but I'm not sure what the best tactic is where some of the pin mounts have worn elongated if that makes sense (mainly the two in the tilt link that connects to the headstock, and the one at the bottom of the tilt pivot that connects to the link - if that makes sense).

    Cheers

    Dave
    Depends which ram or hole it is and how bad. Personally I hate them bronze bush replacments that a certain firm is selling they dont last as long. If a pin is loss in the mounts that will make it wear the bush faster as well. Just seams to hammer the bronze out flat.

    the green plastic ones work really well in some places but often require finishing as they close up when fitted. Plastic also takes more neglect fron lack of grease unlike bronze which wants grease constantly.
    The steel tension bushes are okay. The best are the hardened steel bushings that are not split and made of a bearing type metal but you need a precision hole for them as if not the bush is that hard it will crack in use.

    I have made my own expander type pins for pins that have worn lug mounts etc which generaly work very well but there must be no flex in the lugs or they wont work found this out on a tr200 tilt linkage the main pin connecting boom to big compensating link.

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Last month I did a worn ram eye on a manitou. Spent half a day building it up with weld and then ground it back round with a die grinder till roughly right then used a flap wheel on a drill to finish off kept trying the bush in hole and taking off the high spots till it was right. Turned out much better than expected as sometimes this methoud can be hit and miss certainly not good enough for the hardened steel bushing but fine for the steel tension type and all others.

    Most jobs that involve machining etc I get my mate to sort out by boring it out on his milling machine and then sleaving back to standard.
    But I have done some myself too. Will post a pic later of the tilt link I did on a big pillar drill. It may still be on bff somewere as I posted it before?

    Edit type in matbro tr250 fire in to the search bar alot of pics are missing but the ones drilling out the tilt compensation link are on there.
    Drilled out to just under 60mm then used a reamer to get it to 60mm and pressed in some off cuts of hydraulic cylinder tube and welded them in. Worked really well and still good job now.

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Found the pics - looks good - yes need to do the same pin holes on mine, and the main problem being the holes in the solid link between that and the headstock I've found some nice bronze bushes now just need to find someone with a big drill!

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Einstien View Post
    Found the pics - looks good - yes need to do the same pin holes on mine, and the main problem being the holes in the solid link between that and the headstock I've found some nice bronze bushes now just need to find someone with a big drill!
    what I/the trade call the dog bone link then? take it off turn it on its side and looks like a bone

    I can buy these complete with bushes in quite cheap will PM you may save you a load of hassle

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    just installed repair kit to tr250 power shift with clarke hurt transmission going perfect in 1 2 3 but not engaging 4th at all can t figure out why . need help on this one please 😐

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardmcglone View Post
    just installed repair kit to tr250 power shift with clarke hurt transmission going perfect in 1 2 3 but not engaging 4th at all can t figure out why . need help on this one please 😐
    test that you have 12v and a good earth at the solenoid then test that you have oil pressure at the test port. Hopefully an electric fault otherwise the box will have to come out.
    Here's a six speed CH I rebuilt for a Manitou, gauges were installed for a full diagnostic test before the cab went back on. Some of the plates in CH boxes have compressed paper friction material that is prone to swell and delaminate with moisture (failed heat exchanger) It's very important not to reuse the old plates after the air hits them on disassembly. I changed the Din connectors on the solenoids on this one to the industrial type with an LED so you could tell which clutches were powered on without faffing around with meters etc. Nice wee disco lights under the cab at night.

    https://ibb.co/jNJbfk

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardmcglone View Post
    just installed repair kit to tr250 power shift with clarke hurt transmission going perfect in 1 2 3 but not engaging 4th at all can t figure out why . need help on this one please ��
    This should be quite simple to fix using this table for solenoids engaged to get what gear.


    Gear ....... Forward....... Reverse
    1 = .......A,D,E ......... B,D,E
    2 = ........ A,E ........... B,E
    3 =......... A ................ B
    4 = ....... A,C ............. No 4th in reverse


    As you will see the only solenoid coil used in 4th forwards is C

    from the top solenoids are as follows

    B
    A
    C
    D
    E


    See that you got power to the middle solenoid if not figure out why (most likely broken wire at solenoid or in multi pin plug under front fo cab or the gear lever faulty.

    if you do have power then its either a knackered coil or you don't something wrong inside You don't mix up the clutch pack pistons did you? they are not all the same some have a ball in them or a drilling to slow the impact of pressure build up in the pack.

    Edit hope that looks more like a table now, when I posted it the spaces automatically disappeared so replaced them with dots.

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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Hi we have a TS260 and something has snapped in the front hub. We are having trouble getting the hub apart. Any suggestions please. Thanks

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    Senior Member ACE's Avatar
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    Re: Matbro TR250-110 Overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmersson View Post
    Hi we have a TS260 and something has snapped in the front hub. We are having trouble getting the hub apart. Any suggestions please. Thanks
    In a nut shell!

    To remove the front hub cover flange there are 2 x counter sunk allen screws, they often round off, its quicker and easier to smack them with a hammer and chisel to undo them and replace with new ones than mess about.
    next is 2 x collared wheel studs then there should be 2 x slots to use a bar to pry the cover off early models had the slots cut in the wrong place so you just have to get brutal with them to pry them off. Tip grind 2 x new slots on the right place before re fitting the cover so its easier next time

    The you need to use a pry bar to push the brake piston back in, then a cirplip pliers to take the gear off the drive shaft and a screw driver to flick the circlip out holding the brake disc.

    22mm socket and undo all the hub carrier gear retaining bolts, 2 x M12 bolts to jack the hub carrier gear off its dowels, remove the carrier gear and ring gear complete note this only comes out in one place so rotate the outer hub to the correct position were the larger slots are top and bottom to allow for the brake bleed nipple etc.

    Pull the wheel hub off to reveal the wheel bearings and the main hub seal.

    Take the steering track rod end off.
    knock out the top and bottom king pins, bottom normally tight use a big hammer and big chisel. pull the swivel casting off the axle to get to the axel drive shaft.

    Brake piston removal required a little tool to be made to use the 2 x threaded holes in the piston to pull it out, I think the thread is M3 or M4?

    I normally got parts for these axles new and used on the shelf if you need anything.

    cant PM you so google A & R Handling to find me.

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