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Thread: Old young farmer

  1. #1
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    Old young farmer

    Just found out I'm one of the above.
    im 39 just!!
    have agri qualifications!!
    BUT!
    I'm a head of holding for more than 5 years
    so I'm an old young farmer and now miss out on young farmers payment, what a load of sh1t
    Anybody else being discriminated on having balls and starting out when in late teens

  2. #2
    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Old young farmer

    Yep we've been totally shafted this time!!
    A Young Farmers Scheme that discriminates against young farmers yet pays out to students, teachers, civil servants, tradesmen, lorry drivers etc so long as their dad has a farm. Could only happen in Ireland!!
    CAP reform over here is a disaster for those who have tried hard and been progressive.
    I'll join you at the protest!!

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    Re: Old young farmer

    It probably wont be any differ anway what with the amount of teachers, lorry drivers, students etc etc as mentioned when all the pot of money is divided up there will be f all squared for anyone anyway

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    Re: Old young farmer

    did the ufu simply stand back and let all this shit happen or had they no say

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by zsnotdead View Post
    did the ufu simply stand back and let all this shit happen or had they no say
    Is that not what they always do?

  6. #6
    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Old young farmer

    It seems that the only group that can definitely be excluded from the Young Farmers Scheme are those who actually are young farmers!!!!! If you have been and still are in another job full or part time then it's you they want to support.
    They're a shower of b's

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by grassmanman View Post
    It seems that the only group that can definitely be excluded from the Young Farmers Scheme are those who actually are young farmers!!!!! If you have been and still are in another job full or part time then it's you they want to support.
    They're a shower of b's
    look on the bright side,unlike me you are on the right side of 40.still fit to rock and roll

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    Re: Old young farmer

    I know 2 men who have their wifes at the level 2 course and i guarantee neither of them own a pair of wellies and i know 2 men who bring their secondary school kids to the course cause they cant yet drive! Its a joke.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    So regarding the experience, they don't want anyone who has worked in the industry for more than five years to qualify?

    Rather, they'd prefer someone with no experience to be handed control of a challenging business, and be responsible for staff, meeting all the legislative and cross compliance requirements, welfare of hundreds of animals, and last and least, actually making a profit?

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    So regarding the experience, they don't want anyone who has worked in the industry for more than five years to qualify?

    Rather, they'd prefer someone with no experience to be handed control of a challenging business, and be responsible for staff, meeting all the legislative and cross compliance requirements, welfare of hundreds of animals, and last and least, actually making a profit?
    what did you expect with a woman in charge

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    Re: Old young farmer

    I hope it should work ok for me, i have been on business for number of years so will now go head of holding. Right in principle but as always its being abused. If they are so worried about aging farmers give the payment to everyone under 40.
    I am also doing the class, biggest waste of time. there was one boy in my class he had no notion of farming but was there because his uncle and grandad farmed, that takes mick like.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    But doesn't the experience rule you out then?

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Clearly the Logic here is that because you have been in farming for so long, you have made so much money that you don't need it! :-)

    LoL Sorry should this have been posted in Joke of the Day

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by yin ewe View Post
    Is that not what they always do?
    they've had the balls to come out against WLA ....our bl**dy nfu are promoting it

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by spin cycle View Post
    they've had the balls to come out against WLA ....our bl**dy nfu are promoting it
    It's annoying not getting something but that's life isn't it? I'm just over 40 and just going into farming in my own right. If I had done it a couple years ago I get a handout but not now. Unfair? Not really. They have to draw the line somewhere. I get the feeling that this payment is designed to encourage young people into farming and encourage the oldies to hand over. Like all these things, it's targeted.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    But doesn't the experience rule you out then?
    No i think its people in similar situation to me that this is aimed at. As long as you are not head of holding you still qualify if you are made HOH this year, suppose it is to push more responsibility on to folk quicker.
    There is plenty of farms where the father is 70s/80s and still has full say and when he passes son is clueless cause he never made a decision before.

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    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballymac View Post
    No i think its people in similar situation to me that this is aimed at. As long as you are not head of holding you still qualify if you are made HOH this year, suppose it is to push more responsibility on to folk quicker.
    There is plenty of farms where the father is 70s/80s and still has full say and when he passes son is clueless cause he never made a decision before.
    That's DARD's ideal world bullshit!!!
    Head of Holding means you have got an accountants letter saying that you have got at least 51% of the farms profit as your share for income tax purposes. What your father/mother/uncle twice removed gives you doesn't actually matter.
    A letter stating you have a right to make decisions which can't be vetoed by other partners will be worth bugger all either when you tell dad you want to buy a new fendt, change farming business, sell up.
    Head of Holding owns no land, no capital, no livestock doesn't need to live or work on farm just needs to be able to tick all the boxes. BS.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    I was at a meeting from which I left with impression that experience in the industry disqualified us from the scheme.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by zsnotdead View Post
    what did you expect with a woman in charge
    🎣
    No bites....yet

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by grassmanman View Post
    That's DARD's ideal world bullshit!!!
    Head of Holding means you have got an accountants letter saying that you have got at least 51% of the farms profit as your share for income tax purposes. What your father/mother/uncle twice removed gives you doesn't actually matter.
    A letter stating you have a right to make decisions which can't be vetoed by other partners will be worth bugger all either when you tell dad you want to buy a new fendt, change farming business, sell up.
    Head of Holding owns no land, no capital, no livestock doesn't need to live or work on farm just needs to be able to tick all the boxes. BS.
    It may be misguided but they have to do something. If people find ways around it then so be it. How would you do it better? Give a bonus payment to anyone in farming who is under 40? Then you'll have people on the edge of it trying to claim they are farmers. I don't disagree with you, it's a pain in the arris when you miss out on something but that's just the way it is.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    I'm also missing out on this payment, I'm 34, been head of holding since 2006 when my uncle died and I took over the running of his farm, I've a BAgr from QUB yet I miss out due to being head of holding for over 5 years..

    Is it not young people like myself who thought that Agricultural qualifications where worth getting back when we left school that should be rewarded in this scheme?? As grassmanman says, we've been shafted on this one...

    Half the guys with full time jobs doing these courses in Greenmount, etc. don't realise that they're gonna be hit with a tax bill at the end of this if their suddenly getting 51% of the farms profits going into their account on top of their off farm income.. HMRC are going to be very interested in who declares income from the enrolment in these courses..

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Antares 130 View Post
    I'm also missing out on this payment, I'm 34, been head of holding since 2006 when my uncle died and I took over the running of his farm, I've a BAgr from QUB yet I miss out due to being head of holding for over 5 years..

    Is it not young people like myself who thought that Agricultural qualifications where worth getting back when we left school that should be rewarded in this scheme?? As grassmanman says, we've been shafted on this one...

    Half the guys with full time jobs doing these courses in Greenmount, etc. don't realise that they're gonna be hit with a tax bill at the end of this if their suddenly getting 51% of the farms profits going into their account on top of their off farm income.. HMRC are going to be very interested in who declares income from the enrolment in these courses..
    You get nowt for free! That'll be the price they pay for their greed now then!
    Does anyone know if there's a time limit on how long these "new young farmers" have to hold onto their new prized possession (as in pryzed from their old boys grip) before they can decide without veto to sell the whole lot down the road and do something else?

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Antares 130 View Post
    I'm also missing out on this payment, I'm 34, been head of holding since 2006 when my uncle died and I took over the running of his farm, I've a BAgr from QUB yet I miss out due to being head of holding for over 5 years..

    Is it not young people like myself who thought that Agricultural qualifications where worth getting back when we left school that should be rewarded in this scheme?? As grassmanman says, we've been shafted on this one...

    Half the guys with full time jobs doing these courses in Greenmount, etc. don't realise that they're gonna be hit with a tax bill at the end of this if their suddenly getting 51% of the farms profits going into their account on top of their off farm income.. HMRC are going to be very interested in who declares income from the enrolment in these courses..
    Aye but you forget there is no money in farming, so they will get alot of the tax they paid back.

    I am not sure but i think almost all the folk in my class are part-time, so am i! What's wrong with that? Im the fool that pays a little extra to buy your calves cause im working when the markets are on, part-timers are needed in farming!!

    i am not disagreeing, in fact i agree it should be the likes of you that gets the payment but DARD had ballsed it up, but why not like many others get your wife/partner to do it or someone else. Name only has to be on form and the accountant can sort the 50% share, says nowhere that they need to own ground or cattle.

    Might as well try and milk the system everyone else seems to abuse it and i for one am not going to be left behind!

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballymac View Post
    Aye but you forget there is no money in farming, so they will get alot of the tax they paid back.

    I am not sure but i think almost all the folk in my class are part-time, so am i! What's wrong with that? Im the fool that pays a little extra to buy your calves cause im working when the markets are on, part-timers are needed in farming!!

    i am not disagreeing, in fact i agree it should be the likes of you that gets the payment but DARD had ballsed it up, but why not like many others get your wife/partner to do it or someone else. Name only has to be on form and the accountant can sort the 50% share, says nowhere that they need to own ground or cattle.

    Might as well try and milk the system everyone else seems to abuse it and i for one am not going to be left behind!
    DARD have well and truly fecked this one up... should never excluded young farmers that were already head of holding from this top up payment.

    What's the bets in 3-4 years time the Northern Ireland Audit Office release a statement that this course was ill thought out, targeted incorrectly and a waste of taxpayers money!!

  25. #25
    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by Antares 130 View Post
    DARD have well and truly fecked this one up... should never excluded young farmers that were already head of holding from this top up payment.

    What's the bets in 3-4 years time the Northern Ireland Audit Office release a statement that this course was ill thought out, targeted incorrectly and a waste of taxpayers money!!
    But that won't pay any overdraft!!
    Criteria for young farmers scheme should have been
    a-age 40 or below on a certain date
    b-been head of holding or able to attain that status and paid out on number of years that person was head of holding within a 5 year timeframe going forward not back.
    c-qualification
    d-name on farm business id, vat, banking,

    Other evidence could have been used to show actual farming including benchmarking figures or proportion on income generated on farm.
    I'm not against part time farmers getting support but I am against full time farmers being excluded and losing 5% of their SFP to fund a nonsensical scheme.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    The info on the five years 'experience' appears to be incorrect that was given out at a UFU meeting I went to - but what's surprising about that.

    It seems I will qualify. But whether I want to or not is another matter. I did a few tax sums at the weekend comparing our current distribution with the new 50+ rule, at various profit levels. At most it will add about 2100-2400 quid to my tax bill. At least, just two or three hundred. It should still be worthwhile at the 84EUR payment level, but as we know, it could be worth considerably less than that. The revenue raises eyebrows at shifts in profit distribution, especially in five years time where I might like to retreat from this arrangement and take less profit share again. I do think those eligible need to consider if the scheme may cost more than it will earn in the long run.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    The info on the five years 'experience' appears to be incorrect that was given out at a UFU meeting I went to - but what's surprising about that.

    It seems I will qualify. But whether I want to or not is another matter. I did a few tax sums at the weekend comparing our current distribution with the new 50+ rule, at various profit levels. At most it will add about 2100-2400 quid to my tax bill. At least, just two or three hundred. It should still be worthwhile at the 84EUR payment level, but as we know, it could be worth considerably less than that. The revenue raises eyebrows at shifts in profit distribution, especially in five years time where I might like to retreat from this arrangement and take less profit again. I do think those eligible need to consider if the scheme may cost more than it will earn.
    I think that not everyone will/has been as forward thinking as you DF111 and that the penny will only drop a few years down the line when the farm has made a profit and a big tax bill needs payed by a part-timer who has a well paid job at around 30k and ends up going into 40% bracket all because they jumped on the gravy train and possibly haven't dirtied their hands in the process.

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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    The info on the five years 'experience' appears to be incorrect that was given out at a UFU meeting I went to - but what's surprising about that.

    It seems I will qualify. But whether I want to or not is another matter. I did a few tax sums at the weekend comparing our current distribution with the new 50+ rule, at various profit levels. At most it will add about 2100-2400 quid to my tax bill. At least, just two or three hundred. It should still be worthwhile at the 84EUR payment level, but as we know, it could be worth considerably less than that. The revenue raises eyebrows at shifts in profit distribution, especially in five years time where I might like to retreat from this arrangement and take less profit share again. I do think those eligible need to consider if the scheme may cost more than it will earn in the long run.
    But can't you just award a salary payment to the other partners, in addition to their share of profits?

  29. #29
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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyFarmer111 View Post
    The info on the five years 'experience' appears to be incorrect that was given out at a UFU meeting I went to - but what's surprising about that.

    It seems I will qualify. But whether I want to or not is another matter. I did a few tax sums at the weekend comparing our current distribution with the new 50+ rule, at various profit levels. At most it will add about 2100-2400 quid to my tax bill. At least, just two or three hundred. It should still be worthwhile at the 84EUR payment level, but as we know, it could be worth considerably less than that. The revenue raises eyebrows at shifts in profit distribution, especially in five years time where I might like to retreat from this arrangement and take less profit share again. I do think those eligible need to consider if the scheme may cost more than it will earn in the long run.
    Where does the 84 euro figure come from DF? Will that be on top of the 329 euro/hectare or would it just top up to that level?

  30. #30
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    Re: Old young farmer

    Quote Originally Posted by yin ewe View Post
    Where does the 84 euro figure come from DF? Will that be on top of the 329 euro/hectare or would it just top up to that level?
    Not butting in but that's going to be on top of what the claimants getting for each of the 5 years wether it's 10Euro or 1000Euro/ha which makes a mockery of the phrass top up
    This figure is not final as it will be calculated by dividing the set amount in the kitty(5% of NIs total CAP budget) by the number of claimants multiplied by the number of hectares each one claims up to a max of 90ha each.
    As Mac956 aptly states it may be the square root of f all

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