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Thread: Brexit reality

  1. #31
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Joyce View Post
    I'm sure we'll have to vote until we get it right anyway - not unlike some other referenda

    However what do those castigating Boris's statement think Hitler intended?
    I think Boris is a bit of a mixed blessing, but if you look at Trump and Farage it would seem that outrageous is good. Without Farage there would never have been a referendum. The trouble is that politicians seem to love to twist each others words, totally missing the point that Boris was making.
    I do hope our electorate can see through it all and bring off a surprise result, like they did at the last General Election, totally against what I expected.
    In spite of what it will do to farmers , I am voting out!!
    Jack Caley

  2. #32
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    Re: Brexit reality

    It would appear that a lot of people do not like the Daily Mail. Well I do, if only for Quentin Letts who is well educated, literate and and very lucid and Richard Littlejohn who just tells it how it is. But the newspaper that I read is irrelevant here. What I would ask people to read is the following which was a lengthy article published in the Daily Mail on Monday of this week. It was written by Steve Hilton, who was once David Cameron's chief political guru, close family friend, and again who is intelligent and well versed in EU matters.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-elite.html

    Even if you refuse to read an article in a that newspaper then please watch this. It is on for over an hour but you can come back to it where you left off if you can't take it all in one go.

    https://www.brexitthemovie.com/

  3. #33
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I will be voting out of the EU for the following reasons:

    1. The EU is a resting place for dumping failed politicians. Who here remembers Neil Kinnock? Yeah, failed politician. Guess who is now drawing a pension in excess of £130K a year from the EU? You guessed it, Kinnock. Guess whose WIFE (former school teacher) is now drawing a pension from the EU as well? Guess whose SON is now working for the EU? You guessed it, Kinnock. Did anyone here elect any of these people? errrr Nope.

    2. I recognise that the highest legal court in this land is the Supreme Crown court. The Crown court hands out justice, only then people aren't happy with the ruling, and then go and make their claim to have it over-turned by the European court. I didn't vote for that thanks.

    3. NONE of the people that make up the EU commissions were elected by any of us here. Why then are they able to wield so much power over our country?

    4. We came out of the ERM, we avoided the Euro. We went through the pain barrier with Thatcher's game changing policies, turning the country from a socialist backwater into a major economic player. We did all that, and we can come out of this corrupt shambles as well.

    5. The EU as a political and economic entity, DOES NOT WORK. You have the whole game run by the French and Germans, aided by Belgium and Holland, who are the net beneficiaries of millions of euros of tax payers money. Go to Brussels and see the towers and bridges and buildings. You're telling me the Belgian government raised the cash for that domestically? Germany love being in the Euro, they are big exporters, and they encouraged all the PIGS and Eastern bloc countries to join, because they are weaker economies and this keep the Euro at a low value- EXACTLY what you want when you are aiming to export lots of stuff to overseas markets.

    We don't need to be a member of this club. I don't care if we paid £1 a week and got £350 million back, the fact of the matter is that the EU is wholly undemocratic, unelected and answers to no one. Their accounts have NOT been scrutinised for years. I believe last year the auditors got down to a record figure by which they disagreed, something of a new record as there was 'only' 300 million euros they could not agree on.

    These people are largely socialist, corrupt and have no other role in life than to get stuck into the EU trough which our nation is financing.

    You guys are worried about a trade war? Don't be. We import more from them than the reverse. If Norway can manage to negotiate a decent trade deal, we should find it easy as we represent a larger consumer market than Norway.

    Europe isn't even the biggest game in town at the moment, either. There is far more benefit to be gained from seeking business and trade links with the Far East, where billions of people are rapidly increasing their buying power, and who better to lend them money, or save their money, or finance their new homes and cars, or sell insurance, than the British financial district?

  4. #34
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwork4menow View Post
    I will be voting out of the EU for the following reasons:

    1. The EU is a resting place for dumping failed politicians. Who here remembers Neil Kinnock? Yeah, failed politician. Guess who is now drawing a pension in excess of £130K a year from the EU? You guessed it, Kinnock. Guess whose WIFE (former school teacher) is now drawing a pension from the EU as well? Guess whose SON is now working for the EU? You guessed it, Kinnock. Did anyone here elect any of these people? errrr Nope.

    2. I recognise that the highest legal court in this land is the Supreme Crown court. The Crown court hands out justice, only then people aren't happy with the ruling, and then go and make their claim to have it over-turned by the European court. I didn't vote for that thanks.

    3. NONE of the people that make up the EU commissions were elected by any of us here. Why then are they able to wield so much power over our country?

    4. We came out of the ERM, we avoided the Euro. We went through the pain barrier with Thatcher's game changing policies, turning the country from a socialist backwater into a major economic player. We did all that, and we can come out of this corrupt shambles as well.

    5. The EU as a political and economic entity, DOES NOT WORK. You have the whole game run by the French and Germans, aided by Belgium and Holland, who are the net beneficiaries of millions of euros of tax payers money. Go to Brussels and see the towers and bridges and buildings. You're telling me the Belgian government raised the cash for that domestically? Germany love being in the Euro, they are big exporters, and they encouraged all the PIGS and Eastern bloc countries to join, because they are weaker economies and this keep the Euro at a low value- EXACTLY what you want when you are aiming to export lots of stuff to overseas markets.

    We don't need to be a member of this club. I don't care if we paid £1 a week and got £350 million back, the fact of the matter is that the EU is wholly undemocratic, unelected and answers to no one. Their accounts have NOT been scrutinised for years. I believe last year the auditors got down to a record figure by which they disagreed, something of a new record as there was 'only' 300 million euros they could not agree on.

    These people are largely socialist, corrupt and have no other role in life than to get stuck into the EU trough which our nation is financing.

    You guys are worried about a trade war? Don't be. We import more from them than the reverse. If Norway can manage to negotiate a decent trade deal, we should find it easy as we represent a larger consumer market than Norway.

    Europe isn't even the biggest game in town at the moment, either. There is far more benefit to be gained from seeking business and trade links with the Far East, where billions of people are rapidly increasing their buying power, and who better to lend them money, or save their money, or finance their new homes and cars, or sell insurance, than the British financial district?

    What he said.^^^

  5. #35
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    It would appear that a lot of people do not like the Daily Mail. Well I do, if only for Quentin Letts who is well educated, literate and and very lucid and Richard Littlejohn who just tells it how it is. But the newspaper that I read is irrelevant here. What I would ask people to read is the following which was a lengthy article published in the Daily Mail on Monday of this week. It was written by Steve Hilton, who was once David Cameron's chief political guru, close family friend, and again who is intelligent and well versed in EU matters.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ing-elite.html
    I enjoy reading about them in Private Eye.
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  6. #36
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    I enjoy reading about them in Private Eye.
    What about the movie ? If nothing else please view from 10 minutes in. https://www.brexitthemovie.com/

  7. #37
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Just to clarify as an outsider looking in, I'm Irish, it looks like BBC is pushing a stay in agenda, but almost everything I see online points to an exit.

    Trade is a big issue for us in Ireland, we are going to have a land border with the EU, is smuggling going to be a problem?

    We already have a few multi-national European HQs based here because of time zone and language advantages. The feeling here is that we will have a lot more if Brexit goes ahead. People talk about how Norway is able to trade with EU, but how many multi-national corporations have their European HQ in Norway?

    As a beef farmer the future is very uncertain, mainly because roughly half of our international trade is with the UK. That's not just beef, it's everything. How much will the value of Sterling drop if Brexit goes ahead?

    Yes I can see where UK contributes more of the tax take than what you get back, but how much will trade value reduce if Brexit goes ahead? Nobody really knows.

  8. #38
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I hope nobody feels insulted by some of the comments here on an Irish farming forum, they are in the minority.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...php?p=98792999

  9. #39
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    What about the movie ? If nothing else please view from 10 minutes in. https://www.brexitthemovie.com/
    IMO "Yes Minister" should be compulsory viewing. We need [probaby too late] a version on the EU.

  10. #40
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Confusing when I don't believe what anyone says about the Pros and Cons. Although the fact that we have an ageing population and need people of working age in the country is something that I hadn't thought of before...

  11. #41
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by GFarmPenley View Post
    Confusing when I don't believe what anyone says about the Pros and Cons. Although the fact that we have an ageing population and need people of working age in the country is something that I hadn't thought of before...
    A lot of brave Polish servicemen who fought in the 2nd World War were stationed in the Village of Penley , and because of their contribution (winning lots of medals) many stayed on and integrated and solved the In breeding problem in the Village over night .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  12. #42
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 5000man View Post
    Just to clarify as an outsider looking in, I'm Irish, it looks like BBC is pushing a stay in agenda, but almost everything I see online points to an exit.

    Trade is a big issue for us in Ireland, we are going to have a land border with the EU, is smuggling going to be a problem?

    We already have a few multi-national European HQs based here because of time zone and language advantages. The feeling here is that we will have a lot more if Brexit goes ahead. People talk about how Norway is able to trade with EU, but how many multi-national corporations have their European HQ in Norway?

    As a beef farmer the future is very uncertain, mainly because roughly half of our international trade is with the UK. That's not just beef, it's everything. How much will the value of Sterling drop if Brexit goes ahead?

    Yes I can see where UK contributes more of the tax take than what you get back, but how much will trade value reduce if Brexit goes ahead? Nobody really knows.
    How far are you from the border? Smuggling?? Never happens!!;-)

    There are lots of 'if's' 'but's' and 'maybe's' however I think we have an opportunity to make an historic change. I'm voting out.

    Look at how desperate the rest of Europe are that we stay. Ms Merkel just stopped short of begging us to vote remain.

  13. #43
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    Ms Merkel just stopped short of begging us to vote remain.
    If the Euro currency zone collapses (as it's very likely to post Brexit) then the Germans are majorily screwed. The Deutsche Mark will become one of the worlds strongest currencies overnight hitting German exports almost immediately.

    Against that, many other EU countries will get the shot in the arm they've been crying out for this past number of years now. There'll be a lot of upheaval certainly but things should soon start to head in a more positive direction rather than the tailspin towards inevitable catastrophe that we're currently in.

  14. #44
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    There'll be a lot of upheaval certainly but things should soon start to head in a more positive direction rather than the tailspin towards inevitable catastrophe that we're currently in.
    For us or them .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Perhaps we are seeing the Death Throes of the EU. Possibility of Brexit bringing about a reborn son of EU? Something to bang heads together and bring about some Euro reality.
    Wishfull thinking? Perhaps. One thing for sure, post Brexit any Agricultural budgeting in the UK will need to be done using the lowest commodity price available world wide. Oh and forget about any financial support. Brave new world and all that.
    Dificult to imagine??? Think Coal, Shipbuilding, Steel etc etc.
    gee

  16. #46
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    Re: Brexit reality

    The trouble with trying to make your mind up ,is, do you vote purely on how you perceive it will affect your core business ,or do you take a balanced view , about how it affects the whole country ??
    Feck it ,I'm out

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    Re: Brexit reality

    phil hogan made up my mind when he said he was gauranteeing SFP money to 2019 (not that far away) then after that more money would be heading east and we would have to fight our case to keep the funding we have.the question is-why would you give someone a tenner and then have to try and fight them to get back a fiver? surely we would be as well to just keep the tenner in your own pocket and spend it as you see fit not as someone tells you how with penalties and all the rest? in the case 6 billion into cap 3 billion out and decreasing rapidly?

  18. #48
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Huffy View Post
    The trouble with trying to make your mind up ,is, do you vote purely on how you perceive it will affect your core business ,or do you take a balanced view , about how it affects the whole country ??
    Feck it ,I'm out
    I've always been for voting out. At this point in time I think if we remain in Britain will be much weaker in Europe. If we do grasp the opportunity to leave we may wobble for a year or two but ultimately I believe we will be stronger and better. I'm with Lord Bamford (JCB Boss)

  19. #49
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    I've always been for voting out. At this point in time I think if we remain in Britain will be much weaker in Europe. If we do grasp the opportunity to leave we may wobble for a year or two but ultimately I believe we will be stronger and better. I'm with Lord Bamford (JCB Boss)
    Does he depend on EU market to sell Mrs Bamford`s Orgasmic lamb .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  20. #50
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    Does he depend on EU market to sell Mrs Bamford`s Orgasmic lamb .
    Is there a downside when you are a billionaire with manufacturing plants in many countries outside of the EU?
    Bit different for the Shepherd stockman when he is told sorry but your services are no longer needed.
    Good luck to Bamford.....but his personal views are not really relevant to the vast majority of the population.

  21. #51
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I'm a 'Mugwump'

  22. #52
    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I wonder how things will actually proceed when we vote out - which looks increasingly likely.
    There will presumably be a long period of negotiation and some sort of half in half out arrangement for months if not years.
    By that time the French and several other countries might have their own referendums - interesting times.

    What most people would like to see is something more like the Common Market we voted for in 1975.
    The €uro introduction was where things started to go badly wrong

  23. #53
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I would be a definite out were it not for the fact that I think it may well result in another Scottish independence refeendum with a different result.

  24. #54
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by collies View Post
    I would be a definite out were it not for the fact that I think it may well result in another Scottish independence refeendum with a different result.
    The majority of the Scots had the wit to stay part of the UK with oil at close to 100 dollars per barrel.

    You honestly think suddenly a majority will want independence with it struggling to reach half that!

    The fact that the SNP had to fight the general election on the basis that voting for them was NOT a vote for independence should also tell you something.

  25. #55
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 117 View Post
    phil hogan made up my mind when he said he was gauranteeing SFP money to 2019 (not that far away) then after that more money would be heading east and we would have to fight our case to keep the funding we have.the question is-why would you give someone a tenner and then have to try and fight them to get back a fiver? surely we would be as well to just keep the tenner in your own pocket and spend it as you see fit not as someone tells you how with penalties and all the rest? in the case 6 billion into cap 3 billion out and decreasing rapidly?
    Wasn't Hogan a livestock auctioneer in a previous life?
    My old Dad always said there was nothing more sincere than the promise of an auctioneer and the kiss of a prostitute!

    I can't help thinking that the ruling classes are just protecting their cosy lives. The level of debate is appalling.

    I don't think that what ever way the vote goes the sky will fall in. The Remainers are turning into the beloved childrens story character Chicken Lickin. No one believed him infact they told him to fuck off. Obviously I paraphrase the actual content of the childrens book but the sentiment is the same.

    If the weather is with us it really doesn't matter what the buggers in Brussells or London do.

  26. #56
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    What most people would like to see is something more like the Common Market we voted for in 1975.
    The €uro introduction was where things started to go badly wrong
    Its the conclusion of a lot of people around Europe are coming to gradually if a bit slowly , the idea of a federal Europe is dead in the water , very few Euro Politicians will rise to the top via the ballot box within their own countries with ideas of more Europe , because every body has an unshakable belief that politician's born on home soil are better than anybody else`s. And don't trust those pesky foreigners .

    The Euro in theory was a noble idea for having one currency , but in reality it was never going to work with out equally stringent spending rules for each and every country .In my view the EU should only be a framework for basic rules & regulation .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  27. #57
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    Does he depend on EU market to sell Mrs Bamford`s Orgasmic lamb .
    Anthony relies on it for a lot more than that, JCB has a massive market in Europe, particularly now they've lost the russian market. I'm not really sure what he's playing at TBH, but it wouldn't surprise me if the company was floated within the next ten years. both him and Mark are in their 70's now, Mark had no kids and the only one of Anthony's that is involved with the company is young Joe, and i cant see him being up to running it all on his own.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4wd View Post
    I wonder how things will actually proceed when we vote out - which looks increasingly likely.
    For my money there will be a period of uncertainty in which we will see an economic downturn. Pressure will be on to get a deal done as soon as possible so one will be done. We'll need to be part of the single market so we'll have to contribute to the EU, except we won't have Maggie' rebate any more, we'll also need to comply with the rules of the single market but won't have a veto on any of them and we'll probably have to agree to some level of free movement. It'll be pretty much the same as we are now but we won't have any MEPs so all the kipper spongers like Stuart Agnew will have been told to disembark the gravy train as they'll all be out of a job. this is pretty much the only up side of Brexit, as far as i can see.

  28. #58
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    The majority of the Scots had the wit to stay part of the UK with oil at close to 100 dollars per barrel.

    You honestly think suddenly a majority will want independence with it struggling to reach half that!

    The fact that the SNP had to fight the general election on the basis that voting for them was NOT a vote for independence should also tell you something.
    Wish i shared your confidence. I think the uncertainty on EU membership made up some minds - so if UK is out of EU that worry is removed. Also, i think a lot were swayed by "Devo-max" which was promised by all the "No" parties, but has hardly been delivered.

    Your argument is logical and correct, but i haven't much faith in my countrymen to vote with their heads rather than their hearts if asked again.

  29. #59
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by collies View Post
    Wish i shared your confidence. I think the uncertainty on EU membership made up some minds - so if UK is out of EU that worry is removed. Also, i think a lot were swayed by "Devo-max" which was promised by all the "No" parties, but has hardly been delivered.

    Your argument is logical and correct, but i haven't much faith in my countrymen to vote with their heads rather than their hearts if asked again.
    One thing is certain if we leave , we will have no argument to deny them another vote , because the arguments regarding sovereignty made to leave the EU will have a loud echo .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  30. #60
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by 117 View Post
    phil hogan made up my mind when he said he was gauranteeing SFP money to 2019 (not that far away) then after that more money would be heading east and we would have to fight our case to keep the funding we have.the question is-why would you give someone a tenner and then have to try and fight them to get back a fiver? surely we would be as well to just keep the tenner in your own pocket and spend it as you see fit not as someone tells you how with penalties and all the rest? in the case 6 billion into cap 3 billion out and decreasing rapidly?
    More money will unlikely be heading East as they are getting less farm support than us currently per hectre .The reality is that we will probably get as little and the same amount as them if anything in a future deal .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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