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Thread: Brexit reality

  1. #61
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    For my money there will be a period of uncertainty in which we will see an economic downturn. Pressure will be on to get a deal done as soon as possible so one will be done. We'll need to be part of the single market so we'll have to contribute to the EU, except we won't have Maggie' rebate any more, we'll also need to comply with the rules of the single market but won't have a veto on any of them and we'll probably have to agree to some level of free movement. It'll be pretty much the same as we are now but we won't have any MEPs so all the kipper spongers like Stuart Agnew will have been told to disembark the gravy train as they'll all be out of a job. this is pretty much the only up side of Brexit, as far as i can see.
    IF we get Bonking Boris as pm instead Cameron , which I would put money on if the vote goes to leave ,the pressure to get a trade deal before the next election will be electric .The argument is that the Germans & French wouldn't dare deny us a free trade agreement because they want to sell us BMW`s & Massey Fergusons ,OK fair enough .But if we are going to stop non skilled labour ,but allowing Doctors, Nurses ,Dentists & Engineers who`s education and training is paid for coming from poorer countries in the EU , countries like Poland are going to say hang on , why should we vote for the UK to have a favourable trade deal when they are picking all our best people that we really need to build our economy , and have more unemployment .IMO there will have to be concessions made so unskilled labour can still come whether we like it or not .Poland just like any other of the 27 have a veto , they will use it as they already have when Cameron renegotiated some of our terms recently .It is totally nave to believe that individual countries that have nothing to gain from us getting a similar deal we have now , will not use their vote to get the best for their own country , paid and educated by the state , they are not backward .IMO JCB`s will more likely to get a free passage than farm produced produce from the UK.

    IF ! Bonking Boris gets it half wrong , we could end up with Corbyn a veggie & a Vegan in charge of DEFRA .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  2. #62
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    One thing is certain if we leave , we will have no argument to deny them another vote , because the arguments regarding sovereignty made to leave the EU will have a loud echo .
    There'd be a strong argument for a second vote in the event of an out vote where Scotland alone had a majority for remain, which is a likely scenario in the event of Leave winning. Nothing is certain, but i wouldn't want to bet money on the SNP losing a second time in such conditions.

    It's very true that there are marked similarities between the Leave campaign and the Scottish independence campaign. Both were based on an ideological notion of sovereignty whilst hand waving the detail and decrying any suggestion that it could all go horribly wrong as scaremongering. They promise any amount of jam tomorrow in the knowledge that if and when things fail to turn out as rosy as they promised, it will be too late to put things back how they were.

    Post Brexit we'd be likely to have a hard right conservative government headed up by Boris, Gove and IDS, does anyone really think that their promises to spend the mythical 350M a week on the NHS and crusade for the rights of working people will turn out to be anything other than empty rhetoric? they're a bunch of self serving cynical liars who are even worse than the current pair of bought and paid for corporate asset strippers we have in charge at the moment.

  3. #63
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    IF ! Bonking Boris gets it half wrong , we could end up with Corbyn a veggie & a Vegan in charge of DEFRA .
    Yes, but we'll know who they are, what they're planning, have some chance of lobbying against them, and ultimately they are there at the behest of the UK electorate who they are answerable to every five years.

    We stay in the EU and we will continue to have our lives directed by faceless EU bureaucrats who we know nothing about, know nothing of their future plans, are beyond the influence of any organisation acting on our behalf, and voted for by no one.

    I know which situation I'd rather take my chances with!

  4. #64
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    IF we get Bonking Boris as pm instead Cameron , which I would put money on if the vote goes to leave ,the pressure to get a trade deal before the next election will be electric .The argument is that the Germans & French wouldn't dare deny us a free trade agreement because they want to sell us BMW`s & Massey Fergusons ,OK fair enough .But if we are going to stop non skilled labour ,but allowing Doctors, Nurses ,Dentists & Engineers who`s education and training is paid for coming from poorer countries in the EU , countries like Poland are going to say hang on , why should we vote for the UK to have a favourable trade deal when they are picking all our best people that we really need to build our economy , and have more unemployment .IMO there will have to be concessions made so unskilled labour can still come whether we like it or not .Poland just like any other of the 27 have a veto , they will use it as they already have when Cameron renegotiated some of our terms recently .It is totally nave to believe that individual countries that have nothing to gain from us getting a similar deal we have now , will not use their vote to get the best for their own country , paid and educated by the state , they are not backward .IMO JCB`s will more likely to get a free passage than farm produced produce from the UK.

    .
    Quite. the idea that a trade deal can be sorted out by Farage and Boris popping over to Brussels and telling the foreign johnnies "they'd better buy our shit or we'll stop buying Audis and BMWs, you see if we don't," is insulting our intelligence. It's not even a case of whether vetoing a trade deal with a brexited UK, or rather England, would be in another country's best interest. It could well be that popular opinion could be against a deal in some countries and politicians will vote to secure short term popularity rather than do what's best for their country. It's not as if there aren't loads of politicians using the EU referendum to further their careers as we speak.

    IF ! Bonking Boris gets it half wrong , we could end up with Corbyn a veggie & a Vegan in charge of DEFRA
    Personally i doubt they could be worse than Boris. Boris is a genuinely unpleasant individual under all the faux bluster, he's just a slightly more user friendly version of Trump. In fact Private Eye published a handy Trump / Boris spot the difference list:

    1 Stupid Hair
    2 Spouts nonsense
    3 Known philanderer
    4 Inexplicably popular
    5 Famous for cheap TV shows
    6 National joke
    7 May get top job
    8 Terrifying prospect
    9 Not even vaguely funny anymore
    10 Help

  5. #65
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post

    We stay in the EU and we will continue to have our lives directed by faceless EU bureaucrats !
    When were you last dictated to by a faceless EU bureaucrat? can you give me a specific instance?

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    When were you last dictated to by a faceless EU bureaucrat?
    What I ACTUALLY said was........................

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    We stay in the EU and we will continue to have our lives directed by faceless EU bureaucrats
    Which they are, continually!

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    What I ACTUALLY said was........................



    Which they are, continually!
    OK, can you give a specific example of that?

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    OK, can you give a specific example of that?
    Are you seriously going to try and argue that I've got it wrong somehow??????

    From the most ardent support of remain themselves, the BBC,...........

    "Euro MPs don't set our taxes or decide if a local school or hospital's going to close, but they do have a big influence on how we live our lives. They make decisions in Brussels that directly affect our jobs, our family lives, the health care we get, rules about recycling and energy."

    Now given what ACTUALLY happens is that the bureaucrats create the legislation which the MEP's then either approve or turn down, I'd say they direct our daily lives to a major degree.

  9. #69
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    Are you seriously going to try and argue that I've got it wrong somehow??????
    No, i'm asking you a direct question.

    From the most ardent support of remain themselves, the BBC,...........

    "Euro MPs don't set our taxes or decide if a local school or hospital's going to close, but they do have a big influence on how we live our lives. They make decisions in Brussels that directly affect our jobs, our family lives, the health care we get, rules about recycling and energy."

    Now given what ACTUALLY happens is that the bureaucrats create the legislation which the MEP's then either approve or turn down, I'd say they direct our daily lives to a major degree.
    OK, well give us a specific example of how Brussels bureaucrats have directed your daily life this week then?

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    No, i'm asking you a direct question.



    OK, well give us a specific example of how Brussels bureaucrats have directed your daily life this week then?
    The light bulb in the lamp I'm sitting beside now.

  11. #71
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    For my money there will be a period of uncertainty in which we will see an economic downturn. Pressure will be on to get a deal done as soon as possible so one will be done. We'll need to be part of the single market so we'll have to contribute to the EU, except we won't have Maggie' rebate any more, we'll also need to comply with the rules of the single market but won't have a veto on any of them and we'll probably have to agree to some level of free movement.
    ..........and saying as we're now doing the factual thing in detail, perhaps you'd be good enough to provide the information you have used to formulate your prediction for what will happen post Brexit.

    Thanks.

  12. #72
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    The light bulb in the lamp I'm sitting beside now.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-...nt_light_bulbs Not just the EU who have banned incandescent light bulbs ,nor where they the first.

    Brazil and Venezuela started the controversial phase-out in 2005, and the European Union, Switzerland, and Australia started to phase them out in 2009
    The banning of incandescent light bulbs has kick started the LED revolution ,fast improving and gradually they are coming down in price .I would agree that those twisty alternatives that came on the market first are crap ,but the newest lights are a lot better .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    The light bulb in the lamp I'm sitting beside now.
    The UK parliament passed legislation to phase out incandescent light bulbs in 2007, the EU didn't follow suit until 2012. Norway and Switzerland have also banned them as have just about every country in the developed world

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    Quite. the idea that a trade deal can be sorted out by Farage and Boris popping over to Brussels and telling the foreign johnnies "they'd better buy our shit or we'll stop buying Audis and BMWs, you see if we don't," is insulting our intelligence. It's not even a case of whether vetoing a trade deal with a brexited UK, or rather England, would be in another country's best interest. It could well be that popular opinion could be against a deal in some countries and politicians will vote to secure short term popularity rather than do what's best for their country. It's not as if there aren't loads of politicians using the EU referendum to further their careers as we speak.



    Personally i doubt they could be worse than Boris. Boris is a genuinely unpleasant individual under all the faux bluster, he's just a slightly more user friendly version of Trump. In fact Private Eye published a handy Trump / Boris spot the difference list:

    1 Stupid Hair
    2 Spouts nonsense
    3 Known philanderer
    4 Inexplicably popular
    5 Famous for cheap TV shows
    6 National joke
    7 May get top job
    8 Terrifying prospect
    9 Not even vaguely funny anymore
    10 Help
    +1
    Leading Brexiteers are a bunch of losers......none of them are broadly electable in government terms!
    Using the Brexit vote simply to further their own political ambitions.....too many of them have had their chance and failed. Ian Duncan Smith being the prime example.
    Boris is no more than the amusing eccentric that you meet down the pub.....great fun.....for an hour or two....but when you sober up....Jeez what a nutter!
    A self constructed ego given inflated to mega proportions by a media desperate for ever more tittalating political intrigue!
    British Farming depends on one thing .....the ability to export. In the last decade or two if currencies moved against us especially latterly the Euro we are stuffed, anyone care to name something we produce that is currently making mega bucks???
    Zip all!
    Without a healthy export market we are stuffed!
    To voluntarily exclude our selves from the largest single nearest market beggars belief!
    Name one country that we can export large quantities of Lamb, Beef etc to on the scale that we export to the EU that is nearby and not in the EU?
    What beggars belief more is listening to the optimistic Brexit believers that life will continue and Europe will beat a path to our door begging for our products.... Dream on!
    No French prospective president can fail but secure the vote of the Paysan by ensuring that Agneau d' Angleterre is banished.
    Brexiteers stated intent is to source food from the cheapest source world wide.....
    The EU is by no means perfect, largely it is a home for money bagging failures from throughout Europe....Think the Kinnoch family!
    But at a cost, it is far better than the alternative, much akin to the teenage kids desperate to leave the family home and all the constraints of Mum and Dad.........great for a while......then reality begins to set in!
    The big wild world is not quite as appealing and welcoming as was first thought.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    The banning of incandescent light bulbs has kick started the LED revolution ,fast improving and gradually they are coming down in price .I would agree that those twisty alternatives that came on the market first are crap ,but the newest lights are a lot better .
    A good friend runs a lighting company. He told me a good while ago that left to their own devices the lighting industry would have essentially made the shift from incandescent direct to LED but had their hand forced by the premature phasing out of incandescent and weren't quite up to speed with LED so we've been forced to endure a period of poor lighting, poor lasting, environmentally polluting CFL's. Without interference we'd have had LED replacements (which I agree are excellent) cheaper, sooner.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    ..........and saying as we're now doing the factual thing in detail, perhaps you'd be good enough to provide the information you have used to formulate your prediction for what will happen post Brexit.

    Thanks.
    It's wot i reckon.

    no one can say for sure what would happen post brexit because it is literally a leap into the unknown, however, if you want to take Norway as a likely indicator of what might happen, then being in a similar position to the one we're in now but with no say in what happens at all seems like a reasonable prediction to me.

    but who knows? perhaps once we're free of the tyranny of the EU dictators and their straight bananas we will return to the glory days of Britain before the EU. Power cuts, the three day week, an Austin Maxi in every drive and Love thy neighbour on the telly.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    The UK parliament passed legislation to phase out incandescent light bulbs in 2007, the EU didn't follow suit until 2012. Norway and Switzerland have also banned them as have just about every country in the developed world
    So the UK IS actually capable of producing environmental legislation then, despite the remainers banging on continually about it being something we need the EU for!

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    however, if you want to take Norway as a likely indicator of what might happen,


    .............and on what basis would you make that assumption?

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    .............and on what basis would you make that assumption?
    The basis of wot i reckon, it's a bit like when Boris and Govey say "vote leave, nothing bad will happen, we assure you"

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    So the UK IS actually capable of producing environmental legislation then, despite the remainers banging on continually about it being something we need the EU for!
    Well it made that particular piece of legislation yes, so we're still waiting for that example of EU legislation affecting your everyday life, so, i'll try again:

    can you give us a specific example of how Brussels bureaucrats have directed your daily life this week?

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    it's a bit like when Boris and Govey say "vote leave, nothing bad will happen, we assure you"
    So you're comparing yourself with, in your own words, "a bunch of self serving cynical liars who are even worse than the current pair of bought and paid for corporate asset strippers we have in charge at the moment. "

    Hmmmmm!

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    can you give us a specific example of how Brussels bureaucrats have directed your daily life this week?
    I got my hands really dirty this morning adjusting a chain on a motorcycle because the guy is a lorry driver and had to sit about for 2 hrs to make up his 11hr break, making him borderline late for his MOT appointment, meaning he had no time to do it himself.

    Hands covered with thick, black, sticky, grime courtesy of EU regulation.

    Also, I'm a 3 mobile customer. I was hoping as a result of a merger with O2 that I'd have an even better signal in weeks and months to come, not to be, blocked by the EU.

    Would normally have been hoping to spray docks this week, can no longer do so as I've chosen to use a contractor rather than fork out several hundred quid on a spraying course, but he was busy. Prior to EU regulation I could have done it myself.

    I could go on, ..............and on,....................and on, but I won't as I reckon you are just being deliberately obtuse. To suggest that our everyday lives are NOT influenced by EU legislation is so ridiculous that it beggars belief.

  23. #83
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    A good friend runs a lighting company. He told me a good while ago that left to their own devices the lighting industry would have essentially made the shift from incandescent direct to LED but had their hand forced by the premature phasing out of incandescent and weren't quite up to speed with LED so we've been forced to endure a period of poor lighting, poor lasting, environmentally polluting CFL's. Without interference we'd have had LED replacements (which I agree are excellent) cheaper, sooner.
    Part of the problem was and always is ,that big brand companies like Philips & Osram were terrified of loosing market share . We might have a similar scenario with Glysophate in that the end game of the EU is to get them to modify the product within the next 2 years , who knows either way if we leave I can`t see our politicians leaving Glysophate alone .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  24. #84
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post

    Would normally have been hoping to spray docks this week, can no longer do so as I've chosen to use a contractor rather than fork out several hundred quid on a spraying course, but he was busy. Prior to EU regulation I could have done it myself.

    I could go on, ..............and on,....................and on, but I won't as I reckon you are just being deliberately obtuse. To suggest that our everyday lives are NOT influenced by EU legislation is so ridiculous that it beggars belief.
    The idea that a pensioner who could be in his 70s can use a sprayer and someone under 50 has to have qualifications would soon come under scrutiny ,the reason the law has stayed this way so long is because of the strong farmer lobby across the channel .If the UK government cared and were interested then they would ensure that the test that now takes 3 days could very easily be completed in 1 and a half days which it was when I took the test .


    The EU have not prevented us from culling Badgers and pissed about with ineffective vaccine , its our lot who have put the brakes on and introduced endless bio security , endless testing ,just look south across the Border and you have a cheap and affective way that is working and saving the Irish Government money without the extra redtape & testing .

    The EU have not banned fox hunting , they are not making us introduce Lynx & Beaver .
    They are not responsible for John Craven & Countryfile
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    My reply to the above is just a repeat of post #63.

    Besides, I agree fully with a ban on fox hunting. Control them by shooting if necessary, no need to chase them for 10 miles before ripping them to pieces under the shameful guise of "sporting tradition".

    It has no place in any sort of decent even vaguely humane society.

  26. #86
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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    My reply to the above is just a repeat of post #63.

    Besides, I agree fully with a ban on fox hunting. Control them by shooting if necessary, no need to chase them for 10 miles before ripping them to pieces under the shameful guise of "sporting tradition".

    It has no place in any sort of decent even vaguely humane society.
    I don't agree with the Horse & Hound type of hunting but I believe in using hounds to flush foxes out for shooting , as for your suggestion they chase them for 10 miles . FFS.


    https://www.fginsight.com/news/brexi...spective-12733 An interesting article .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by wrsni View Post
    I got my hands really dirty this morning adjusting a chain on a motorcycle because the guy is a lorry driver and had to sit about for 2 hrs to make up his 11hr break, making him borderline late for his MOT appointment, meaning he had no time to do it himself.

    Hands covered with thick, black, sticky, grime courtesy of EU regulation.
    Have the EU banned soap and water now? i must have missed that one.


    I could go on, ..............and on,....................and on, but I won't as I reckon you are just being deliberately obtuse. To suggest that our everyday lives are NOT influenced by EU legislation is so ridiculous that it beggars belief.
    You say you could go on and on and yet it took you the best part of a day to come up with some tenuous examples and one completely irrelevant one, so i'm not convinced that you could, actually.

    Besides, I agree fully with a ban on fox hunting. Control them by shooting if necessary, no need to chase them for 10 miles before ripping them to pieces under the shameful guise of "sporting tradition".
    Well i agree fully with the imposition of safety legislation on commercial drivers, and not allowing pensioners a free pass to introduce hazardous chemicals to the environment, so that's ok then. but seriously, do you honestly think any of H&S legislation is going to be rolled back come Brexit time? If we want access to the single market. and UK Agriculture will be well and truly screwed without this, then you're going to have to obey the club rules just like before

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    Re: Brexit reality

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    You say you could go on and on and yet it took you the best part of a day to come up with some tenuous examples and one completely irrelevant one, so i'm not convinced that you could, actually.
    Well at least I made the effort to seriously answer what was quite a loaded and awkward question rather than resort to your "Well it's wot I reckon" when equally challenged.

    Fortunately, unlike yourself, it seems that many are starting to wake up and realize the sheer pointlessness of remaining in the EU.

    Unfortunately, if we do manage to get out and improve things, people like you will also benefit when actually you probably deserve to "remain" and suffer the consequences of your own pedantic stupidity.

    But, so be it!

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    Re: Brexit reality

    ... might be off-topic in a political discussion but did anyone else enjoy C4's satire 'Power Monkeys' where one example of an archetype Brexiteer is Spencer "last seen on TV chasing anti-fracking protesters with a muckspreader".

    (about 45 seconds in at http://www.channel4.com/programmes/p...mand/64266-001)

  30. #90
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    Re: Brexit reality

    I am struggling to see how Agriculture will benefit ,Boris ,Gove and IDS are all free marketer's to the core and will almost certainly be the leaders of the Government until the end of the current 5 year term . If we get a free trade access agreement for food which no other country outside the EU has it will set a huge precedent for every other trade deal the EU has .Michael Gove has regularly slated EU trade agreement policy for making food for the UK consumer more expensive , what he never says in the same sentence, is that he is also critical of the EU`s failure to get better agreements with countries like the US and South American Mercosur bloc , now the reason why agreements have always failed is because not all 28 countries want to have more grain, meat & dairy produce exported to the EU , which the US and South American Mercosur bloc insist on getting for more access into their markets .For some unexplained reason we will expect the remaining 27 to vote without one veto ,with the UK having made or planning to make a deal with the US and South American Mercosur bloc ,and in Michael Gove`s words and many others of his ilk ,to make food cheaper for the UK consumer by exporting from the worlds lowest cost exporters , which could creep on to EU market .Now this might not be such a big problem for JCB & Dyson as their original and unique will almost certainly be top of the list after their support for the campaign at getting a better deal .I am not very optimistic about farming , the EU have many faults but they have , or at least most countries within, have put agriculture before big corporate business when voting on trade agreements .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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