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Thread: Docks problem

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    Docks problem

    As Above what sprays are the best to get rid off Docks in grass

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    Re: Docks problem

    Anything with "Forefront" in it is very effective indeed, but it's only legal in some areas, and I wouldn't use it myself because it hangs around for 2-4 years in vegetable matter or animal dunG.

    I use Grazon Pro as a spot treatment, and if you use it properly it's effective, if a bit expensive.

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    Senior Member davidroberts30's Avatar
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    Re: Docks problem

    I used cimmaron 3 years ago and didnt think it was brilliant use hatchet xtra this year
    Same active as doxstar but half the price

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    Re: Docks problem

    Cimarron is very good but you need to know how to use it.

    Forefront is overkill for docks- I use it only when you have a real good mess with thistles, nettles and the rest and of course note the vast number of restrictions involved with it's use.

    Doxstar is more than just Hatchet xtra. Doxstar is two actives, not just one.

    Half the problem with dock control is that people are keen to rush out the first thing in the spring and apply many products, given the conditions this spring it has been far too cold until now for hormone or contact type products to work well.

    Fluroxypyr would be the bare minimum I'd ever use but don't expect it to be fantastic, better than 2,4D or MCPA though.

    If you have clover you intend to keep none of the above is an option.

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    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Docks problem

    Quote Originally Posted by RGSP View Post

    I use Grazon Pro as a spot treatment, and if you use it properly it's effective, if a bit expensive.
    Best idea is to spray underneath as apposed to spraying the glazed side .I have had fair amount of success weed wiping using Glysophate which wipes underneath ,although that said because they need to be taller than the grass sward they will at that point have seeded, one will never get to the point of getting rid .The point I am getting at is that you need a fair wack of Glysophate when sprayed on the glazed side to kill compared to a tiny smuge underneath , and this is reflected in the time taken for the plant to change colour and die in my experience .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: Docks problem

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    Best idea is to spray underneath as apposed to spraying the glazed side .I have had fair amount of success weed wiping using Glysophate which wipes underneath ,although that said because they need to be taller than the grass sward they will at that point have seeded, one will never get to the point of getting rid .The point I am getting at is that you need a fair wack of Glysophate when sprayed on the glazed side to kill compared to a tiny smuge underneath , and this is reflected in the time taken for the plant to change colour and die in my experience .
    Agree with all of that. Flat rosettes of young dock leaves aren't readily sprayable from underneath, but a tiny squirt of Grazon from the top does them in, whereas it wouldn't with established ones with big roots.

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    Re: Docks problem

    The time taken for the target weeds to show symptoms is no indicator whatsoever of how effective the active ingredient is.

    You could spray docks with nearly any kind of herbicide, and within 24-48 hours you will see a lot of them wilt and go flat. This is the solvent and adjuvant package in the product dewaxing the plant, causing it to lose water massively. This doesn't mean anything. You could probably spray saline solution on a dock on a hot day and it would make them wilt.

    Within 7 days you begin to see the characteristic curling and twisting, this is typical of hormone type products which basically work by making the plant grow itself to death. Hence they are totally ineffective where plants are inactive or not growing.

    For mature 'granddad' docks with a massive carrot like root system you are going to need a lot of product to exhaust it and physically kill them. Many of the hormones like 2,4-D and MCPA are not cure-alls, they are weak on some weeds and others are completely resistant. So it pays to know exactly what you are being told to use or sold. Doxstar is a both barrels product because you have fluroxypyr AND triclopyr in it, the latter of which is very good in translocating in deep rooted plants.

    Cimarron is a totally different product because it is an SU, meaning tiny amounts of active are involved (Metsulfuron-methyl is actually toxic to grass species in high doses), and it works very very well, but don't expect it to curl docks up in 3 days, SUs take in excess of 7-10 days to show symptoms, more in cool or indifferent growing conditions.

    I find that using Cimarron AND a hormone partner makes it safer on the grass and also lets you take out buttercup and other weeds as well as the docks in one hit, whereas no amount of pastor, doxstar or grazon has ever killed buttercups, dandelion or daisies, buttercup in particular are nearly totally resistant to it.

    Cimarron + MCPA/2,4-D/POLO + fluroxypyr would be a useful mixture until mecoprop gets its grassland approval back.

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Docks problem

    Here's a question for you UW4M.
    Got a dock problem in a silage field. Field due to be reseeded. Plan to take a cut of silage , let green up and then spray with glyphosate, plough and reseed.
    Your thoughts and opinion

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    Re: Docks problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Here's a question for you UW4M.
    Got a dock problem in a silage field. Field due to be reseeded. Plan to take a cut of silage , let green up and then spray with glyphosate, plough and reseed.
    Your thoughts and opinion
    Treat the docks with Forefront T now before cutting, they can survive glypho. You may need to treat the new ley again with forefront.

    Feel free to disagree UW4M!

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    Re: Docks problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ballygreenan View Post
    Treat the docks with Forefront T now before cutting, they can survive glypho. You may need to treat the new ley again with forefront.

    Feel free to disagree UW4M!
    That's a nice idea but technically wrong for two reasons:

    1. You can't legally apply forefront to land that will be cut this season- it can only be applied to grazing land only (in the UK at least), this has been the rule for some time now. And of course there are restrictions about the slurry/manure from such farms as someone else mentioned due to the persistence of the active. This was also the case with Clopyralid, it's chemical cousin.

    and

    2. Forefront is horrifically expensive, I would be reluctant to spend someones money controlling docks, (particularly in these economically adverse times), on a ley that the farmer is subsequently going to destroy anyway, but then it isn't my money or my decision to make.

    Lastly, as I said, I don't use forefront when the sole problem is docks. It is overkill and not necessary.


    Docks should not survive glyphosate very well if they are done right, they take time to die, like anything. Roundup does seem to be the most abused chemical today, it's taken for granted. Even the makers write on the label that it is best applied in decent conditions, to growing weeds that are free from X,Y or Z, etc etc etc.


    From memory there are no following crop restrictions to stop you reseeding to grass following the application of Cimarron so you could use this if you wanted, I think the harvest interval is 14 days. Doxstar would be 7 days as Dow are so keen to point out.

    I would probably stick to the plain generic flouroxyr option if the farmer really wanted to spray it ahead of cutting.

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    Re: Docks problem

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    Here's a question for you UW4M.
    Got a dock problem in a silage field. Field due to be reseeded. Plan to take a cut of silage , let green up and then spray with glyphosate, plough and reseed.
    Your thoughts and opinion
    Lalans

    Have you decided what to do yet?

    I can send a PM if you like, I have some unconventional ideas if you know what I mean.

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    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: Docks problem

    Still thinking along the lines of roundup, plough and reseed but open to any suggestions/advice you may have. The drawback with roundup is waiting for the aftermath to green up as there can be a tendency to go too quickly. Also if we run into a dry spell then regrowth again can be slow so the whole job starts to slip back and as I will be tight for grass any delay causes problems.
    Please send a PM.
    As they say every day is a school day.

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