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Thread: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

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    Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Hi, I have recently purchased an agricultural storage barn , it's a steel framed building with breeze block walls on 3 sides. I want build a wall at the front and hang doors so that building is secure to keep my tractor etc in as land out in the sticks!! Do I need permission? Barn was built under official planning in the 70's

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    Senior Member 4wd's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    If you asked planning they would probably say apply anyway to be safe, and the fee is ...
    Provided no change of use from Agricultural storage you should be OK especially if the building is not going to become more intrusive in someone's view.

    I don't see any issue if it's already closed in on three sides

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    Senior Member wr.'s Avatar
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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Personally, I'd just go ahead and do it but that's not telling you what to do.
    Don't itch for something if you're not prepared to scratch for it.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    It largely depends on two things but other things come into play.

    1. Do you have PDR (Permitted Development Rights) That is achieved by having more than 5 hectares of land at your disposal.

    If you have this then you can just just go ahead and do it anyway.

    2. Do you have any neighbours who have nothing better to do than try to make trouble ? If so I would go to them and explain the situation. That you want to protect your assets, draw them a pretty drawing of what the doors will look like, blah di blah. I'm sure that you have had a visit from our "travelling friends" haven' t you ? And that you want to make sure that they are not enticed into the area, blah di blah. Remember, some of these old biddies have been set up with a pc by Grandsons and they like nothing better than to find the local council planning web site and fire objections off left right and centre. Invariably the spouse has died and they are lacking something in their lives.

    The above is not the way I was brought up but Internet Forums and planning bring out the worst in people.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    It largely depends on two things but other things come into play.

    1. Do you have PDR (Permitted Development Rights) That is achieved by having more than 5 hectares of land at your disposal.

    If you have this then you can just just go ahead and do it anyway.

    2. Do you have any neighbours who have nothing better to do than try to make trouble ? If so I would go to them and explain the situation. That you want to protect your assets, draw them a pretty drawing of what the doors will look like, blah di blah. I'm sure that you have had a visit from our "travelling friends" haven' t you ? And that you want to make sure that they are not enticed into the area, blah di blah. Remember, some of these old biddies have been set up with a pc by Grandsons and they like nothing better than to find the local council planning web site and fire objections off left right and centre. Invariably the spouse has died and they are lacking something in their lives.

    The above is not the way I was brought up but Internet Forums and planning bring out the worst in people.


    thanks guys, I looked into it with council. as I've only got 2.5 acres I would need planning although they said it wouldn't be a problem. didn't really want to do this but have just met the neighbour and he seems (although friendly enough) a bit like trouble if you know what I mean 🙄

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Now you have told us how much land it sits on it would be useful to know how big the shed is before giving any more advice. The problem might arise if it's a big shed and you are going to put a huge wall and nice shiny new doors up. Just because the planners say that there shouldn't be a problem doesn't mean that there won't be.

    Your parish council or any councillor (district or county) can send it to the local Planning Committee for a decision and they can refuse it if they have been "got at" by a councillor. The planning committee is made up of councillors so it's not necessarily an un-biased decision. It will also be sent to committee if there are 5 or more objections from members of the public. I know I am painting the worst case scenario here but if the committee refuse it then the next step is an appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. That doesn't cost you anything unless you employ someone to do it for you and it is very gratifying to rub any objectors's nose in it.

    On balance I would be extremely surprised if you had a problem with all of this, I am only telling you what could happen. The fact that you have approached the planners means that you are now obliged to seek planning permission. If you just went ahead and did it and someone got silly about it they would probably make you apply anyway and if you didn't then it's an enforcement notice. You can still appeal that but it gets messy.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Now you have told us how much land it sits on it would be useful to know how big the shed is before giving any more advice. The problem might arise if it's a big shed and you are going to put a huge wall and nice shiny new doors up. Just because the planners say that there shouldn't be a problem doesn't mean that there won't be.

    Your parish council or any councillor (district or county) can send it to the local Planning Committee for a decision and they can refuse it if they have been "got at" by a councillor. The planning committee is made up of councillors so it's not necessarily an un-biased decision. It will also be sent to committee if there are 5 or more objections from members of the public. I know I am painting the worst case scenario here but if the committee refuse it then the next step is an appeal to the Planning Inspectorate. That doesn't cost you anything unless you employ someone to do it for you and it is very gratifying to rub any objectors's nose in it.

    On balance I would be extremely surprised if you had a problem with all of this, I am only telling you what could happen. The fact that you have approached the planners means that you are now obliged to seek planning permission. If you just went ahead and did it and someone got silly about it they would probably make you apply anyway and if you didn't then it's an enforcement notice. You can still appeal that but it gets messy.
    we've just had similar refused wanted to re roof and replace some structural timbers as existing barn is worse for wear, we have over 5ha, asked council, as we've a difficult neighbour, they said apply for 28 day notice, waited 6 months for notice and then refused as existing shed too big, over 600 and something square feet. so i'm just going to do it any way.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by windymiller78 View Post
    we've just had similar refused wanted to re roof and replace some structural timbers as existing barn is worse for wear, we have over 5ha, asked council, as we've a difficult neighbour, they said apply for 28 day notice, waited 6 months for notice and then refused as existing shed too big, over 600 and something square feet. so i'm just going to do it any way.
    Surely Health and Safety trumps the planners? If you are claiming SFP or equivalent then you have a duty to spend it on the upkeep and maintenance of your property never mind safeguarding your own life and anyone else who may enter said building? Invited or not. Dear forbid if someone broke into said shed and the roof caved in on top of him.........you'd have that on your conscience for the rest of your life! 😉

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    I've had recent experience of this. Bought myself an agricultural building but one of the gables was wide open so I decided to put on a door and block up to said door to make the building secure an stop opportunist thiefs. Turns out a neighbour decided it was un-permitted development and complained to the LPA who duly sent my work a letter because my work van was parked there when the work was being done and no one knew who the owner was. After that was sorted I spoke with the planning officer who said the neighbors have commented on the noise the door makes in the wind. Trouble is the door is not yet fitted! So obviously a case of troublesome neighbors. In the middle of seeking permission just now but the planning officer appears to be helpful. Will see how things go.
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    After that was sorted I spoke with the planning officer who said the neighbors have commented on the noise the door makes in the wind. Trouble is the door is not yet fitted! So obviously a case of troublesome neighbors.
    There are plenty of those about, especially if there is a coucillor living locally and the neighours are nothing more than sycophants who think that if they worship at any councillor's feet they will get their own way.

    The LPA are obliged to put up with such time and money wasting antics, the answer is to go along with the LPA if possible and not to ruffle their feathers, they only have a job to do and not one that I envy. In the end you will get what you want as long as it's not unreasonable and then just sit back and rub the neighbour's noses in it.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    . . . so I decided to put on a door and block up to said door to make the building secure an stop opportunist thiefs. . . . .
    If you have to go before council, just remind them how much you may save their Policing budget by correcting this.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    If you have to go before council, just remind them how much you may save their Policing budget by correcting this.
    Ah my dear man I don't think it's the same situation over here, local council don't manage the police budget as far as I'm aware. That would be controlled from the central government. You couldn't trust our local council to tell us what to do and look after us
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    If you have to go before council, just remind them how much you may save their Policing budget by correcting this.
    But crime in the UK is no longer a criminal offence. It is a growth industry and is to be encouraged as a massive number of jobs depend on it.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quattromike View Post
    Ah my dear man I don't think it's the same situation over here, local council don't manage the police budget as far as I'm aware. That would be controlled from the central government. You couldn't trust our local council to tell us what to do and look after us
    On this side of the pond, a lot of Policing, Fire protection, building inspection, zoning approval / inspection, etc. has been "decentralized", so you get the amount of "protection" you are willing to pay for.

    And no, we don't have the "six gun" protection plan.

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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    But crime in the UK is no longer a criminal offence. It is a growth industry and is to be encouraged as a massive number of jobs depend on it.
    Yes, and according to Diane Abbott's car crash interview this morning with Nick Ferrari it's all been carefully costed ! Everyone should be made to listen to this, she is, after all, the Shadow Home Secretary ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LSfhrHqaKk

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    Senior Member Quattromike's Avatar
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    Re: Do I need planning to build a wall on existing building?

    It's in! Got the planning permission granted this week, there is conditions like some naff plan has to be sent in showing where I will plant native bushes to provide a blend to the landscape but generally should be good to go
    "At the end of the day, I think it's going to get very dark."

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