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Thread: Pool Results.

  1. #1
    Grain_Buyer
    Guest

    Pool Results.

    I don't do pools, but manage a tonnage of grain for a few growers, it's averaged 134 for harvest feed wheat. I'm very pleased, but wondered how other pools/ marketing schemes worked out this harvest, anyone had any results yet?

  2. #2
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Havent got the exact ones in but Gleadell pool will do 130 base for feed. My own pool is going to do about 140 for Dec to Feb plus any premiums which I am quite happy about.

  3. #3
    Grain_Buyer
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    If you can sort your premiums!! Still crying about the loss of such fine Alchemy down the feed pit.

  4. #4
    ged
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    grain co on the tyne have paid 100 for feed barley and 90 for feed wheat as a peliminary payment hopefully a big top up payment will arrive shortly although wheat is still in my shed even though its on the harvest movement pool will have to shift it soon thogh to get the cattle in

  5. #5
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grain_Buyer View Post
    If you can sort your premiums!! Still crying about the loss of such fine Alchemy down the feed pit.
    Dont worry, its still a damned big heap. Didnt realise the premium was as big as that though - for the usual fiver I'd rather it go in the feed pit most times. Homes that pay extra are usually crap for haulage - much prefer 12 wagons in a day than one a day for a fortnight.

  6. #6
    Grain_Buyer
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    12 per day might be a bit much to ask, but can do 4-6 per day no probs.

  7. #7
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Gleadell pool (harvest) results out today.

    Feed:
    Base pool price 130.15
    Average pool price 133.25
    Highest pool price 139.35

    Milling wheat range 135.40 - 155.59

    I think that is a perfectly decent result given that it has been marketted for a year. All their pools for the year are sold up, which should suggest something about the state of the market. Not 100% certain, but reckon that the OND pool may actually end up a little lower than that. My pool will beat it again, but probably only by a few pounds. Not got any in the Gleadell harvest pool, but lets hope the Frontier OND pool does as well, preferably better.

  8. #8
    OPENFIELD
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Apparently Frontier harvest pool will pay 118 base price - so no hope their OND will be any better given the market fall . Looks like you picked the wrong pool Tesla !!

  9. #9
    ex_pool_manager_ha
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Openfield - are you Grainfarmers or Centaur or none of the above. Think we should be told!

    On that note I hear on grapevine some staff of the above companies are now jumping ship pre merger.

    I signed up 25% of my 2009 wheat with Mr Gleadell so that will probably put the knockers on that - be warned!!

  10. #10
    Grain_Buyer
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Credit where its due, that Gleadles pool is very good, can't knock them for that. Think Frontier should be ashamed of their result at 12 quid less. OPENFIELD, you've only just joined but your posts are already irritating me- So Tesla had his wheat on the Frontier pool, and it's not done that well, but your "ner ner na ner ner" post just makes you look like a dick.

  11. #11
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Ah well, could have been worse. 281t in Frontier OND pool, 600t Gleadell long pool, 600t sold for 160ex Nov, and I am selling the few hundred left spot over the rest of the year. Dont think I have done too bad - eggs, baskets and all that! Certainly no pool will have done as badly as the chap who still hasnt sold any.

    Not sure which of the Grainfarmers / Centaur staff will go. Hopefully it will be most of the Centaur lot as they are predominantly dicks. Maybe we wll get a vote? Where would they jump ship to? Gleadell might pinch a few, but as Frontier are getting all the big supply deals I reckon Gleadell are stuffed longer term.

  12. #12
    ex_pool_manager_ha
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Tesla, thanks for the tip re Gleadells by the way. Seem a reasonable bunch to date but we'll see - pudding,eating, proof etc etc

    Funnily enough I got on OK with the Centaur lot tho, and found Grainfarmers the trickier lot. I do think that if Frontier get too big it will be us that get stuffed rather than Gleadell IMHO. Have you found out if GrainBuyer is a 21 year old nymphet yet by the way?

  13. #13
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    No, I am waiting for "her" to send me some sample bags in the post. "She" did offer a dicrete rendezvous in the Retford area but I was otherwise engaged.

    The rule of thumb is normally to do the opposite of me when it comes to picking pools. Gleadell were always reliable when wheat was 60 a ton, but then had 2 years of being poo-poo, so we shared it about a bit.

    Gleadell reps are generally nice. They are good when it comes to shifting big wodges of crop - we had 13 loads in a day which is always good. On the other hand, for me they often use Wilmotts for haulage, who treat us like turd - expecting us to load at painfully short notice. Their lab staff (Di et al) are very helpful and give me special favours if I need a sample doing quick. They also do not pay on 28 days - despite what they say! If 28 days does not coincide when they do a cheque run then you dont get paid until then - if that falls on a Thursday, then you may not see your cheque until the following Tuesday which in my mind is not 28 days. Might be in the small print, but not in the spirit. Reet cheap fert too - they never let us down (except the DAP debacle).

    Frontier reps are also nice, and they have the lovely Janet who works in IT. For me they are good as my local mills belong to them! I know what they want. They also supply me details of moisture and bushel etc on each load even if I dont have a claim. Their drivers are fairly good at being there at the right time. They have nice trials, and depite having a "trials club" I have never had to pay. They send their BACs and cheques on time. Their pricing for me is simple as it is simply LIFFE price = delivered price for feed so I dont feel the need to ring every day.

    Centaurs rep is a wet blanket. Has their market report seen the wood for the trees yet, as it was saying that prices would be back up one of these days? Havent sold to them on account of the rep being such a cry baby.

    Masstock had a rep but as he never replies to my emails for seed prices I dont really know what his bag is.

    We have delt with ADM Direct. Top notch for deliveries and prices, although that lack of personal touch actually does mean something. Now if this lot could get some staff on farm, and give local growers to their mills soem incentives then they could really clean up - if all the milling wheat going into say Rotherham (if this is still open) or Knottingly was grown within 25 miles, then that would be a huge boost.

    Kerrys Gainsborough, if you are listening, you could easily just get a group of us locals together to grow exactly what you need, and we can T&T is all to you and not have rejections, waggons etc to worry about.
    Grainfarmers rep is easily the nicest. He is known as the "housewifes favorite", as he is the only one who is nice to my mother and is always friendly and interested in what we are doing,. He is also the most knowledgable about crops and that sort of thing. His money comes on time, as do his wagons. He never ceases to amaze me at how many new schemes or marketing tools they have, despite always being out on pricing for both sales of grain and purchases of seed, which is a real shame.

    Obviously, all reps and experiences are different, and it depends on what you want. We want one chap or two at most, who wont hassle us,, whos lorries turn up as planned and a decent number a day. Money arrive on time. Who wont be stupid about one low bushel claim in 30 loads. In return, we will give them a list of our crop areas and our cashflow requirements, and tell them the actual yields at harvest and let them so their job. And I keep 300t or so and have a play with it so I can rib them about how much better I did selling it.

  14. #14
    Journey Man
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    What about rapeseed pool results? We were in a pool with one of the national merchants who returned just over 300ex. It looks a great price now, but these markets are so volatile and difficult to read!

  15. #15
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Havent seen any yet - all ours in long pool or priced earlier on. With the prices peaking a while ago, I am guesstimating that the longer pools may well be lower than the earlier pools.

  16. #16
    Grain_Buyer
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Tesla a fantastic, who's who of the grain trading world. Should be a sepatate thread- Rate your merchant, we might start to see a pattern. Agree the lovely Janet from Frontier has a couple of things going for her. Met her at cereals a couple of years ago, I popped in for one of her baps. Pork with appple saurce...emmm.

  17. #17
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grain_Buyer View Post
    Tesla a fantastic, who's who of the grain trading world. Should be a sepatate thread- Rate your merchant, we might start to see a pattern. Agree the lovely Janet from Frontier has a couple of things going for her. Met her at cereals a couple of years ago, I popped in for one of her baps. Pork with appple saurce...emmm.
    Hands off those baps. There is no other reason to go to Cereals

    Would love to see a rate your merchant but not sure how happily the moderators would be if we named names. I suppose as long as we dont libel them it should be fine. We could nominate the best one for an award.

  18. #18
    richard
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    When you sell into a pool do you consider if they will be in business long enough to see it through??? what is the risk?

  19. #19
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Dont know what the risk is, although I expect that if you sell grain and it is taken away and you are not paid, then you just become a creditor of a bust company and get nowt. Havent read the contract small print, but I expect is says when the goods become the property of the other party. But, as in all contracts, you can always change the terms so that the goods remain yours until paid for. How this would work in practise if your wheat had been turned into flour, then into cake, then eaten etc I dont know. Dont really see how this is much more risky than selling grain with payment in 28 days though. Certainly less risky for you than the reverse ie they sell you fert, you spread it on the fields and then go bust. You could always take the money the day after movement, or at least 90%.

    In practise, we often sell wheat about now into the pool for delivery AMJ 2010. If they went bust beforehand, then clearly they dont get the wheat.

    If you had a big tonnage, you could always get the personal guarentee of the directors, but for a few hundred tons its the same risk as selling any product to anyone. I dont see companies like Frontier and the like backed by big multinationals going tits up.

    Every year there is the usual scare story passed around the mobile phones that someone is going belly up. For some reason it is always Grainfarmers. Never happens - just malicious rumours. Last year it was that they had stopped paying out and at that time they did owe me a lot of money. It was all lies and I was paid on 28 days. They said they had had hundreds of phone calls. Probably another merchant shovelling muck.

  20. #20
    ged
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    finally got my harvest pool top up for feed barley which brings it to 123.50 per ton should find out about the wheat next week

  21. #21
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Gleadell harvest pool results now on their website if you want them:

    Feed wheat base 130.15
    Feed barley base 128.15
    OSR base 307.68

    all pre bonuses for quality/oils and after any commission.

    ged - care to name the merchant?

  22. #22
    Clart on my boots
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    well done everyone that sold in the pools this year, but on a five year average how would you say you have done? do you have any results from the previous years that we can compare with?

  23. #23
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clart on my boots View Post
    well done everyone that sold in the pools this year, but on a five year average how would you say you have done? do you have any results from the previous years that we can compare with?
    I could dig them out. Over 5 years I tend to beat the pools, but then I only personally market around 15% of what we grow - doing more and ballsing it up would not be good risk management. For example last harvest pool did not great but long pool did well.

    Not so sure that people who sold wheat in this years long pools will consider it such a great result though, although anyone with HC spring and winter beans in the OND pools will be laughing all the way to the bank. Especially those who sold the product of a known hectarage :P

    Harvest rape pool doesnt look any great shakes compared to prices you could have had for most of last year.

    Again, personal choice and for me a useful tool for risk management, especially if joined with central storage - GF were happy to advance money for 1.5% over BoE base which I think if I were asking the bank for some more unsecured overdraft today I would struggle to get.

    Horses. Courses. Beggers. Choosers. Pays your money and takes you choice. IMHO with prices easily being able to move 5 in a day I reckon 50% of my cropped area will be in a pool by the end of the week. The choice is now to either allocate this years crappy sprouted feed into the long pool, and market the good stuff myself, or the other way around. Personally I think it best for my rep to have the fun of shifting 600t of the nasty and let me find homes for the nice.

    -edit-

    Centaur pool base price feed wheat 118.08
    OSR harvest 300.41
    Barley feed harvest 112.10

  24. #24
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Gleadell OND, JFM, AMJ pools are all sold now and will all pay c117/t ex plus bonuses.

    Grainfarmers havest feed wheat pool did 120 ex, and OSR did 307 ex.

    Just Frontier to go now, and he is due this afternoon. Day of reckoning as thats where 10 loads of nice Alchemy went last month. Have allocated all the poor feed wheat into long pool positions and now concentrating on finding homes for the good stuff before the premiums fall away.

    -edit- see next but one post for correction

  25. #25
    Crazybull
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Tesla,

    Is that OND price right for the gleadell pool, i have 4 loads in it and thought i was told 127 as base price. I'm off to find out.........

  26. #26
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    No, tis my typing error. 127 is the pennies for their other pools at least which is pretty bloody good going. Good enough to get a sizeable acreage of ours in their pools next year again. And good enough for others to feel some shame I expect.

    -edit-

    ...although apparently Unioted Oilseeds harvest rape pool has done 320 ex plus bonuses, which would be a really strong performance.

  27. #27
    Tesla
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Frontier man told me not to post their results for harvest. I am not a harvest pool "customer" but as I was asked nicely then mouth is zipped. If someone who is wants to post, then thats fine. They are apparently all sold up for their remaining short/medium/long pool positions, and none of them will be best pool of the year.

    Still beats todays prices by a very long pointy stick.

    So thats all the big pools in now, and for wheat Gleadells win with the rest looking like a good tenner behind. For rape United Oilseeds looks to have taken it a clear 20/t ahead of the rest who are all about the same but around 13 ahead of Grainfarmers who came second.

  28. #28
    ged
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Gleadell harvest pool results now on their website if you want them:

    Feed wheat base 130.15
    Feed barley base 128.15
    OSR base 307.68

    all pre bonuses for quality/oils and after any commission.

    ged - care to name the merchant?
    grainco on the river tyne

  29. #29
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Whats other farmers experience of pool selling OSR with United Oilseeds?

    Do they really beat the market most years?

  30. #30
    static_discharge
    Guest

    Re: Pool Results.

    Gleadell JFM pool results out today:

    Feed type wheat Base 105.22
    Average 107.12
    Highest 110.23

    Bread making wheat Range 109.22 to 125.22

    Feed barley 94.00

    http://www.gleadell.co.uk/News.htm

    If memory correct, we got 108 and some pennies for some ok Robigus.

    Due to memory being like a sieve, I went to a Frontier meeting this evening and didnt ask what they did. Post harvest, if selling for March 2010, I would only have been able to beat that on two forward trading days. Average price for forward sales (March 2010 ex farm) since 1/1/2009 is just over 108 though so undecided.

    Anyone care to add other merchants/co-ops?

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