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Thread: direct drilling rotation

  1. #1
    marco
    Guest

    direct drilling rotation

    Is a different rotation needed for direct drilling? would first wheats only be ideal. i.e winter wheat , cover, spring rape, winter wheat, cover, peas, winter wheat, cover, spring beans. and so on. your thoughts are welcome.
    mark

  2. #2
    eliot2004
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    here 's mine ( in Normandie) :

    corn - spring beans - winter raps - winter wheat - cover -

  3. #3
    james lloyd
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Aim for next year-

    irrigated land

    grain maize-wheat-cover of beans or mix to be decided

    Non irrigated land

    wheat-cover-sunflowers-wheat-cover-grain maize

  4. #4
    Elmsted
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Think this has some good information accross EU.


    http://www.grainlegumes.com/aep/prod...crop_rotations

  5. #5
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    wheat- osr-wheat- cover mustard spring peas or potatoes - wheat - winter beans -

    that's pretty much ours with spring beans on some land as well

  6. #6
    foxcover
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Continuous wheat.

  7. #7
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by foxcover View Post
    Continuous wheat.
    Wow! for how long have you been doing this...? You would have to farm in either Yorkshire or Lincolnshire as farmers in that part of the world seem to be able to grow massive crops with few of the problems the rest of us seem to get...Have tried continuous wheat in the dim and distant past (25 years ago) and we still have a black grass problem on those fields today..

  8. #8
    Scott
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Two schools of thought:
    Alternate monocots & dicots
    Alternate 2 monocots followed by 2 dicots, theory being that you get 2 years to reduce populations of problem weeds such as brome, blackgrass and thistles.
    Fashionable topic is use of overwintered cover followed by spring break. Spring oats and beans have GMs similer to winter varieties and better quality. Linseed GM approaching that of anything other than a bumper rape crop & you can go skiing without feeling guilty about ignoring the pigeons. Downsides are harvests that conflict with wheat combining & drilling and associated storage issues.
    The one thing I am convinced of is that permanent wheat or, wheat, rape, wheat rotations reliant on ever increasing fuel and herbicide usage are unsustainable.

  9. #9
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Two schools of thought:
    Alternate monocots & dicots
    Alternate 2 monocots followed by 2 dicots, theory being that you get 2 years to reduce populations of problem weeds such as brome, blackgrass and thistles.
    Fashionable topic is use of overwintered cover followed by spring break. Spring oats and beans have GMs similer to winter varieties and better quality. Linseed GM approaching that of anything other than a bumper rape crop & you can go skiing without feeling guilty about ignoring the pigeons. Downsides are harvests that conflict with wheat combining & drilling and associated storage issues.
    The one thing I am convinced of is that permanent wheat or, wheat, rape, wheat rotations reliant on ever increasing fuel and herbicide usage are unsustainable.
    Scott ...with you on this one...my ideal rotation would be ..wheat, grain maize, beans, winter osr and back to wheat again...The problem is the grain maize...finanacially it does not stack up and we didnt manage to get the beans in after it....so replace the maize with spring wheat ...winter wheat, spring wheat, beans, osr and followed by two wheats.. not perhaps ideal but agronomically sound...(and perhaps put some oats in where you do not have a grass weed problem)
    Rape after beans really makes sense..easy to establish and you only need about 100kgs/ha of nitrogen to grow a good crop of rape... we loose much of the nitrogen fixed by our pulse crops because we are planting a wheat crop...OSR is far better at utilising the available N in the Autumn being sown at least a month earlier...!
    Spring wheat (sown as a spring crop), beans and OSR gives you a really good opportunity to hit your black grass without using Atlantis/Pacifica.

  10. #10
    Ewen McEwen
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Planning wheat, spring barley, peas, osr, wheat on some chalky stuff.

    Can you get the osr sown on time after spring beans Jim ? ( I've never grown sp beans)

  11. #11
    fullback155
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    I am starting direct drilling this autumn with a rotation of Wheat, OSR, Wheat, Spring Linseed on my heavier soils. My lighter soils will be OSR, Wheat, Spring Linseed, Wheat, Spring Wheat/Spring Barley.

    However I reserve the right to change this for whatever reason!!!

  12. #12
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    Wheat, osr, spring wheat, osr is my target for the next few years. I can replace the spring wheat with something else if it's paying better. While osr is sitting at about 280/t with bonus's you've got max up on it.

    this post just shows you can't really plan in the moving goal post world we live in - not long ago you were going to banish OSR from the farm due to low margins but within a year or so it's back to top payer

    rotataion has to remain fluid to react to changing ecomiomic situation

    if wheat is 150 or more in March 11 you will wish you had more wheat

    OSR can be a great crop but can also be a disaster

    looking at my last 10years of margins Winter Beans win on consistancy mainly due to them costing bugger all to grow

  13. #13
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ewen McEwen View Post
    Planning wheat, spring barley, peas, osr, wheat on some chalky stuff.

    Can you get the osr sown on time after spring beans Jim ? ( I've never grown sp beans)
    I think it would depend where you are in the country..if you are in our part of the world we usually have our beans combined by the third week in August...so it is not a problem...Spring beans (or better still peas) are better than winter varieties because if you get a normal winter with some frost it kills off the volunteers...

  14. #14
    NickF
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    I am very tempted to simplify my whole system and go wheat, fallow with cover crop, winter OSR, wheat, fallow etc...

    On my clay with blackgrass problems I wonder if this would be the most profitable solution. Fallow to get good kill and reduce seed bank, easy early drilling of winter OSR followed be plenty of time to get wheat in after a good chit of weeds. My break crops recently of beans (both spring and winter), spring OSR, peas and linseed rarely seem to reduce the grass weed problem significantly regardless of the chemistry we use.

    Slightly off topic, is it unwise to use mustard as a cover crop in a year fallow prior to winter OSR as they are both brassicas. I think probably due to risk of disease carry over.

  15. #15
    chalky
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    two very telling posts here by clive & nick F.

    Chasing the 'great white hope' of crops will almost always be a year too late & everyone else has done it. Wait til spuds show good margins & everyone who grows increases their area again & kills it. If you have a balanced cropping, you are covered good and bad.

    Likewise- wheat & fallow will pay IF you devastate your overheads, which of course the rotation allows. It relies though on discipline. The minute the 'lure' of a break crop beats you, and you gear up, you are on the slippery slope of falling between two stools.

    Of course, you are far better off if you are a contract farmer and you have persuaded your landowners to adopt this regime.

  16. #16
    static_discharge
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by chalky View Post
    Likewise- wheat & fallow will pay IF you devastate your overheads, which of course the rotation allows. It relies though on discipline. The minute the 'lure' of a break crop beats you, and you gear up, you are on the slippery slope of falling between two stools.

    Of course, you are far better off if you are a contract farmer and you have persuaded your landowners to adopt this regime.
    I think if you were going to alternate fallow and a cash crop that you would be better of growing rape as the cash crop. Volunteers for some cover on your fallow, etc etc. A 3m Moore, set of rolls and an old low hp tractor to pull it with, and a contractor to harvest it and I dont think you can cut your overheads any more! Certainly no blackgrass issues. Also the plusses of timely harvest and almost guarenteed drilling slot in great conditions.

    No matter what your views on rape seed rates etc, it's difficult to argue against a high performing rape crop will pay the best, and also that a crop of rape established well without any pressures of a wheat harvest in the way after a decent cover crop to retain moisture is the panacea for heavy land with tricky blackgrass.

  17. #17
    james lloyd
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    [QUOTE=Jim Bullock;479114]Scott ...with you on this one...my ideal rotation would be ..wheat, grain maize, beans, winter osr and back to wheat again...The problem is the grain maize...finanacially it does not stack up.

    what went wrong with the grain maize, last year you thought that it was the answer to a maidens prayer!!!!!!

  18. #18
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    [QUOTE=james lloyd;480347]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Scott ...with you on this one...my ideal rotation would be ..wheat, grain maize, beans, winter osr and back to wheat again...The problem is the grain maize...financially it does not stack up.

    what went wrong with the grain maize, last year you thought that it was the answer to a maidens prayer!!!!!!
    Nothing agronomically....just when we came to sell it many of the buyers disappeared...and for this year the seed went up another 15/acre and the price of the fuel has gone up 15%....
    We will grow it again, but I need to find somebody who will have it wet for crimping..

  19. #19
    foxcover
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Wow! for how long have you been doing this...? You would have to farm in either Yorkshire or Lincolnshire as farmers in that part of the world seem to be able to grow massive crops with few of the problems the rest of us seem to get...Have tried continuous wheat in the dim and distant past (25 years ago) and we still have a black grass problem on those fields today..
    Winter wheat/Kale mix/Spring wheat

  20. #20
    mbsrhol
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by foxcover View Post
    Winter wheat/Kale mix/Spring wheat
    I have dd Winter wheat going into maize and had thought Italian ryegrass may be the best option for a grazable cover. What time frame do you have to establish the kale mix for it to be successful? Is the mix grazed? Regards

  21. #21
    foxcover
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by mbsrhol View Post
    I have dd Winter wheat going into maize and had thought Italian ryegrass may be the best option for a grazable cover. What time frame do you have to establish the kale mix for it to be successful? Is the mix grazed? Regards
    Hypothetical. good 6 months for a cover crop, could graze it but we dont have many sheep in east yorkshire! With ryegrass you wouldnt be able to hit blackgrass.

  22. #22
    mbsrhol
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Being mainly livestock we have no blackgrass. IRG is the safe bet for me but much prefer the idea of a dicot between moncot crops. May do a mix as i dont intend to use a herbicide.

  23. #23
    Steakeater
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    this post just shows you can't really plan in the moving goal post world we live in - not long ago you were going to banish OSR from the farm due to low margins but within a year or so it's back to top payer

    rotataion has to remain fluid to react to changing ecomiomic situation

    if wheat is 150 or more in March 11 you will wish you had more wheat

    OSR can be a great crop but can also be a disaster

    looking at my last 10years of margins Winter Beans win on consistancy mainly due to them costing bugger all to grow
    They may be consistent but are they high or low margin?

  24. #24
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Steakeater View Post
    They may be consistent but are they high or low margin?
    a 2 year old quote but it's still fair to say that for me Winter Beans have always been a good break crop and certainly a good tool in the war against grass weeds. Their margin won't rival OSR at current prices but what will ? WW/OSR is not a rotation IMO

  25. #25
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    What would you say to spring beans instead Clive? Too variable or impractical on your soil?

    I never liked the idea of WW/OSR despite how profitable it is, you can soon start eroding the benefit of it financially if you get mounting weed and slug problems. If there is a cover crop and even DD solution to that we'd have a winner.

  26. #26
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayo View Post
    What would you say to spring beans instead Clive? Too variable or impractical on your soil?

    I never liked the idea of WW/OSR despite how profitable it is, you can soon start eroding the benefit of it financially if you get mounting weed and slug problems. If there is a cover crop and even DD solution to that we'd have a winner.
    spring beans are risky on my lighter soils but I have grown good crops in the past along with a few disasters when it didn't rain much. Better than winter from a rotation point of view

    If i was growing them in the future they would be following a cover crop and direct drilled which would help with the moisture issue

  27. #27
    Steakeater
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    How about a osr/winter oats/winter wheat rotation?

  28. #28
    Tim Fr
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by james lloyd View Post

    Non irrigated land

    wheat-cover-sunflowers-wheat-cover-grain maize
    How do you get on with non irrigated maize. all my neighbours who grow maize irrigate.?
    I have no irrigation so have not tried maize. Sun flowers suffer if we get no rain for germination.
    May be we are a lot drier here than your area?

  29. #29
    walter melon
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    ww, osr, ww, spring linseed and I might do another ww after linseed to make it a 5 course rotation and not 4. Potatoes also feature on some land and is followed by ww or spring linseed if conditions are bad.

  30. #30
    nick channer
    Guest

    Re: direct drilling rotation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Wow! for how long have you been doing this...? You would have to farm in either Yorkshire or Lincolnshire as farmers in that part of the world seem to be able to grow massive crops with few of the problems the rest of us seem to get...Have tried continuous wheat in the dim and distant past (25 years ago) and we still have a black grass problem on those fields today..
    we have winter wheat thats continous for 5 years, and have no plans on changing... doehill on here has wheat thats been in 7yrs [maybe more] with good results..

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