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Thread: IH 674 Engine Probs

  1. #1
    candor
    Guest

    IH 674 Engine Probs

    Hi lads, I'm aware of the threads relating to this engine (one about the 574) but just want to ask a question or two.

    Noticed that whilst checking over things that the rad is losing coolant whilst the tractor was sitting up. I can't see any leaks from the rad or hoses etc. I noticed the oil level seems to have risen also. So I am guessing that the seals at the bottom of the liner are buggered. When I bought the tractor previous owner said the engine had been done, perhaps these seals had been missed.

    Now I've never done any engine work but keen to try and sort the problem, have what I think are the necessary tools, (sockets and ratchet, torque wrench, access to pullers).

    What would you replace as a matter of course and how would you check components for wear.

    Any advice is most welcome.

  2. #2
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Where's Gapples ?

    My guess liners porous or bottom seals.

    Could all be done in situe with luck.

  3. #3
    Inter674
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    Where's Gapples ?

    My guess liners porous or bottom seals.

    Could all be done in situe with luck.

    had same problem, it will be a rusted liner - they rust from the outside in allowing water to leak into the piston side and out the exhaust or into the sump. Our's was due to a lack of corrosion inhibitor. A real PIA as the engine was otherwise excellent. We re-co'd the whole lot rather than do a bitzer repair, so should be good for another 8k.

  4. #4
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Hi lads, I'm aware of the threads relating to this engine (one about the 574) but just want to ask a question or two.

    Noticed that whilst checking over things that the rad is losing coolant whilst the tractor was sitting up. I can't see any leaks from the rad or hoses etc. I noticed the oil level seems to have risen also. So I am guessing that the seals at the bottom of the liner are buggered. When I bought the tractor previous owner said the engine had been done, perhaps these seals had been missed.

    Now I've never done any engine work but keen to try and sort the problem, have what I think are the necessary tools, (sockets and ratchet, torque wrench, access to pullers).

    What would you replace as a matter of course and how would you check components for wear.

    Any advice is most welcome.
    Did someone mention my name

    Candor, have you had the engine started since you discovered your water leak ? If the engine has done any amount of running with a decent quantity of water in the oil, the oil will turn into a grey sludge. You will notice it first at the top of the oil dip stick, lots of water droplets.
    Also if the tractor has stood for a while you could very slowy release the oil drain bung to see how much water if any is in the sump ( water settles at the bottom obviously )

    If no water in the sump there must be leak elsewhere but would seem unlikely from what you are saying ? If you can get a cooling system pressure tester do so, pressure the rad up & see if holding pressure, up to say 10psi or so, look out for any external leaks.

    If sump has water in it, drain oil & remove the sump..once again pressure test if possible, you will see where the water is leaking from ( IE you can see water drip from the bottom of the liners on the outside if liner seals or run down the inside of the liners if porous or cracked !...It could of course be a head gsk, either way with the sump off you will be able to see whats going on in there !

    By the way if you do take the sump off yourself be aware of the 2 small bolts at the back underneath near clutch housing, they are 1/2 inch socket same as the rest, you reach them with a socket on long extention, you will see the 2 slots when you look under the sump at the back.

    There are pullers for the liners but you wont need any as they will just knock out using a piece of hard wood up past the crankshaft.

    Plz repost or pm me if you need any more info or torques etc

  5. #5
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapples View Post
    Did someone mention my name

    Candor, have you had the engine started since you discovered your water leak ? If the engine has done any amount of running with a decent quantity of water in the oil, the oil will turn into a grey sludge. You will notice it first at the top of the oil dip stick, lots of water droplets.
    Also if the tractor has stood for a while you could very slowy release the oil drain bung to see how much water if any is in the sump ( water settles at the bottom obviously )

    If no water in the sump there must be leak elsewhere but would seem unlikely from what you are saying ? If you can get a cooling system pressure tester do so, pressure the rad up & see if holding pressure, up to say 10psi or so, look out for any external leaks.

    If sump has water in it, drain oil & remove the sump..once again pressure test if possible, you will see where the water is leaking from ( IE you can see water drip from the bottom of the liners on the outside if liner seals or run down the inside of the liners if porous or cracked !...It could of course be a head gsk, either way with the sump off you will be able to see whats going on in there !

    By the way if you do take the sump off yourself be aware of the 2 small bolts at the back underneath near clutch housing, they are 1/2 inch socket same as the rest, you reach them with a socket on long extention, you will see the 2 slots when you look under the sump at the back.

    There are pullers for the liners but you wont need any as they will just knock out using a piece of hard wood up past the crankshaft.

    Plz repost or pm me if you need any more info or torques etc
    Haven't had the engine started for a while now as I had been fitting a new handbrake and also had injectors out and injector pump to refurb. Handbrake is all sorted now and nearly going with injection system, just have injector pump to fit which a friend is helping me with.

    When I got it, water was in the cooling system, I put JD Coolgard in so I didn't have to take the water out during winter etc and it seemed like a good option. I'm not sure if Coolgard would separate or mix with the oil. Certainly oil level is up from what it was afaik.

    I checked over the engine briefly whilst it was running last, it wasn't breathing from the pipe 5 mins after starting (tho not knowing if this would change whilst hot, imagine it would).

    I will get the injector pump fitted and at least that will one less thing to sort as I want to check if I have adjusted handbrake correctly etc and fitting top cover correctly.

    Then I will start into diagnosing this problem It is a project at the moment, hopefully won't cost too much money to remedy and will eventually be put back to work.

    Any other tips?

    Torque specs and any other info regarding engine mechanics to a a relatively new person to would be appreciated. I have helped do the head on a 4 cylinder 3.0 litre mercruiser engine (chevy i believe) so at least have some knowledge and if totally stuck can a good mechanic friend.

    Edit: Anyone recommend a good flush for the rad? Should it be done before or after work it carried out?

  6. #6
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Haven't had the engine started for a while now as I had been fitting a new handbrake and also had injectors out and injector pump to refurb. Handbrake is all sorted now and nearly going with injection system, just have injector pump to fit which a friend is helping me with.

    When I got it, water was in the cooling system, I put JD Coolgard in so I didn't have to take the water out during winter etc and it seemed like a good option. I'm not sure if Coolgard would separate or mix with the oil. Certainly oil level is up from what it was afaik.

    I checked over the engine briefly whilst it was running last, it wasn't breathing from the pipe 5 mins after starting (tho not knowing if this would change whilst hot, imagine it would).

    I will get the injector pump fitted and at least that will one less thing to sort as I want to check if I have adjusted handbrake correctly etc and fitting top cover correctly.

    Then I will start into diagnosing this problem It is a project at the moment, hopefully won't cost too much money to remedy and will eventually be put back to work.

    Any other tips?

    Torque specs and any other info regarding engine mechanics to a a relatively new person to would be appreciated. I have helped do the head on a 4 cylinder 3.0 litre mercruiser engine (chevy i believe) so at least have some knowledge and if totally stuck can a good mechanic friend.

    Edit: Anyone recommend a good flush for the rad? Should it be done before or after work it carried out?
    Sound like a good project you have going on ?

    If it was porous liners the engine would be breathing very heavy & get to be like a steam train when hot, vapour out of breather pipe.
    As I was saying just loosen off the sump bung without letting oil out, if there is any water in there it will come out first.

    Cyl head bolt torque 115 lbft ( torque to about 80llbft in first stage )
    Big end nuts 65 lbft
    Main brgs 140 lbft
    Tappets all 12 thou ( cold )

    You may want to find out the torques for the balancer bolts as I can't just remember them off the top of head at the moment. ( they are about 60lbft I think ? ) but I could be wrong.
    You also have to time the balancer unit when you refit it, be very carefull as it will go on a tooth or 2 either way & still run, or be it very badly !
    There are pop marks on the cranksgaft gear & the balancer to align, there marks although always very clear on the crank gear were not always easy to see on the balancer gear !!
    If/when you have the sump off, see if the gsk is unmarked & if so leave well alone, you will regret it if it is the original & you start to scrape off, they are a total pig to remove to say the least !
    If you are that far in it would be worth checking the oil pump bearing as well, replacing all the seals ..o-rings etc
    Plus of course the valve stem oil seals, they were an issue on these engines if lack of oil changes or lack of hard work.
    If you really want to go to town you could have the valves & valve seats sorted & lapped in as well
    All in all good engines though, only real issue was the pourous liners.
    Obviously if not sure just what you are doing take a few pics, make a few note of where stuff goes, IE numbers on big end caps, mark them 1/2/3 & 4. If fitting new liners which way the pistons go back onto the con rods, change one at time ( you will need a ring compressor to refit pitons into liners )
    I could go on & on but I wont . So just enjoy your project mate

  7. #7
    ReidyNZ
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Just to add to what Gapples has said - I have had 2 of these engines where there has been corrosion in the liner O-ring grove :cry:, so if the engine was done as previous owner said (and I hope there is no-one out there that would fit new liners without replacing seals/o-rings) this could have been missed (as we did once, even with close inspection).

    Do not dispair tho - most would say new block required - in both cases, after cleaning thoroughly, we fitted slightly larger o-rings coated with Loctite flange sealant - worked a treat and to my knowledge both are still problem free.

    Other than that, Gapples has been VERY thorough and has a sh*t load more experience than me

  8. #8
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by ReidyNZ View Post
    Just to add to what Gapples has said - I have had 2 of these engines where there has been corrosion in the liner O-ring grove :cry:, so if the engine was done as previous owner said (and I hope there is no-one out there that would fit new liners without replacing seals/o-rings) this could have been missed (as we did once, even with close inspection).

    Do not dispair tho - most would say new block required - in both cases, after cleaning thoroughly, we fitted slightly larger o-rings coated with Loctite flange sealant - worked a treat and to my knowledge both are still problem free.

    Other than that, Gapples has been VERY thorough and has a sh*t load more experience than me

    Oh I dont know about sh*t load Reidy, had lots of sh*t in my time though
    But you are quite right, I have come across that same problem you point out where the liner o-ring groove is corroded away somewhat, over size o-rings are available so do not dispair if this is the case, they work just fine !

  9. #9
    Inter674
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    ..it has been noted before, but the handbrake on these tractors is very weak and usually will not survive one careless episode of leaving it on. So, may be a good idea to fit a buzzer or a bigger warning light to avoid this happening as replacing the hand band band is a PIA. IH dealers in Aus fitted a ratchet mechanism to hold the foot brakes on rather than continuously repairing the hand brake, thereby making it redundant. it does not hold well in any event, even when new, as I found out when the 'new' 674 tractor ran away down hill and nearly ran me over in the process

  10. #10
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by Inter674 View Post
    ..it has been noted before, but the handbrake on these tractors is very weak and usually will not survive one careless episode of leaving it on. So, may be a good idea to fit a buzzer or a bigger warning light to avoid this happening as replacing the hand band band is a PIA. IH dealers in Aus fitted a ratchet mechanism to hold the foot brakes on rather than continuously repairing the hand brake, thereby making it redundant. it does not hold well in any event, even when new, as I found out when the 'new' 674 tractor ran away down hill and nearly ran me over in the process
    I would not think that is a particularly safe practice with hydraulically actuated brakes?

  11. #11
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    I would not think that is a particularly safe practice with hydraulically actuated brakes?
    Not only is it not safe its also illegal in Britain

  12. #12
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by Inter674 View Post
    ..it has been noted before, but the handbrake on these tractors is very weak and usually will not survive one careless episode of leaving it on. So, may be a good idea to fit a buzzer or a bigger warning light to avoid this happening as replacing the hand band band is a PIA. IH dealers in Aus fitted a ratchet mechanism to hold the foot brakes on rather than continuously repairing the hand brake, thereby making it redundant. it does not hold well in any event, even when new, as I found out when the 'new' 674 tractor ran away down hill and nearly ran me over in the process

    Thanks all for the great advice, will keep you updated, looking like a project over the winter with college etc.

    About the handbrake, I have just renewed it, I took the top cover off as it seemed the easier but obviously longer way of doing the job as I could see what I was doing. I think I will be fitting a buzzer in case anyone else drives the tractor with handbrake on.

    These look good, think they would be the correct size.

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=36405

    Edit: That won't do, hole in dash is 17mm.

  13. #13
    Inter674
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gapples View Post
    Not only is it not safe its also illegal in Britain

    wow! Mine have worked for 25 years without a problem unlike the hb that failed in the first week I would have thought foot brakes as the primary vehicle braking system would be built with greater inherent strength and reliabilty than a hb which is secondary in nature and built in most cases quite cheaply. So why make it illegal to lock them down and use them to hold the machine still, especially if this backs up the hb??

    Anyhow, I don't want to start a war, just seems a bit odd that's all. Then again, mine was fitted over 20 years ago so the laws may have been different then. PS I have fitted the same (illegal) system to our MF6170 and so far it has worked very well unlike the hb which is far too weak for our hills in Tassie, and of course the clutch being pressurised is of no use to hold in gear

  14. #14
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by Inter674 View Post
    wow! Mine have worked for 25 years without a problem unlike the hb that failed in the first week I would have thought foot brakes as the primary vehicle braking system would be built with greater inherent strength and reliabilty than a hb which is secondary in nature and built in most cases quite cheaply. So why make it illegal to lock them down and use them to hold the machine still, especially if this backs up the hb??

    Anyhow, I don't want to start a war, just seems a bit odd that's all. Then again, mine was fitted over 20 years ago so the laws may have been different then. PS I have fitted the same (illegal) system to our MF6170 and so far it has worked very well unlike the hb which is far too weak for our hills in Tassie, and of course the clutch being pressurised is of no use to hold in gear
    Oh I'm not saying that your footbrake system is not way better than the hand ( park ) brake system...its here in the UK anyway all handbrakes have to be mechanically activated ( to the best of my knowledge )
    Its to do with maybe having a seal fail or if activate your foot style park brake with the fluid hot as the fluid/oil cools it will contract & could release the brake

  15. #15
    Inter674
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    ....fair enough!

  16. #16
    essexpete
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Used our 884 with a block of wood to wedge the brakes on. It did leak off once and let the tractor roll.
    On a sub 20 mph tractor it would seem that the older system of mechanically applying the main service brakes for parking was quite effective. At least you knew they were on!
    I fitted buzzers to our tractors in the past.

  17. #17
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Looking to do a compression test on the engine, are special tools needed? Obviously a gauge but how does that work with this engine? Do you just hold the probe in?

  18. #18
    ReidyNZ
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Looking to do a compression test on the engine, are special tools needed? Obviously a gauge but how does that work with this engine? Do you just hold the probe in?

    You wont hold it in - you need a proper diesel engine compression tester that is clamped/screwed or whatever system the engine uses to hold injectors in.

  19. #19
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by ReidyNZ View Post
    You wont hold it in - you need a proper diesel engine compression tester that is clamped/screwed or whatever system the engine uses to hold injectors in.
    This is what I was thinking, any idea where to get such a thing?

  20. #20
    cyrush
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Candor, for all the various jobs you have to do on the engine, sounds like you need a service manual.

    I can sell you a Neuss Engine Manual on CD rom in Adobe Acrobat, you can read off the disc on computer and print off all or specific data, has all torque figures etc Drop me a PM & we can discuss.

    Also when replacing liner bottom rings you need service or heavy duty rings ( not standard rings). they are a little thicker and support liner better.

  21. #21
    ReidyNZ
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    This is what I was thinking, any idea where to get such a thing?

    I have a Sykes Pickavant one - not sure where to get your Country

  22. #22
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by ReidyNZ View Post
    I have a Sykes Pickavant one - not sure where to get your Country
    Funny enough I got talking to the local case dealer recently, who specialised in international years back. Know them well enough and they said any manuals I need a look at to let them know, I may be able to borrow the tools I need off them.

  23. #23
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Hi all,

    Wondering to get a bit of advice, injection pump guy is too busy to come out so I'm refitting the pump myself.

    Now things don't seem to be lining up quite right, I am thinking perhaps the injection pump gear is out? The tractor ran beforehand so I'm a little confused. Any advice would be appreciated.

    TIA

  24. #24
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    I have the spring washer and nut don't worry

  25. #25
    go diego go
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    how far out is the timing marks can,t quite see them in photos if they are miles out has the engine been turned over with pump off? if it has you may be set at tdc on no4 cyl instead of no1 did the marks all line up before you took it off:lolk:

  26. #26
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by go diego go View Post
    how far out is the timing marks can,t quite see them in photos if they are miles out has the engine been turned over with pump off? if it has you may be set at tdc on no4 cyl instead of no1 did the marks all line up before you took it off:lolk:
    Hasn't been turned since I took it out, I left it with 4 on the pump gear lined up with the idler gear as I only found the crank pulley marks today after searching for them. Something is not right anyway. Marks did not line up as they would be the same when it was taken off.

  27. #27
    go diego go
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Hasn't been turned since I took it out, I left it with 4 on the pump gear lined up with the idler gear as I only found the crank pulley marks today after searching for them. Something is not right anyway. Marks did not line up as they would be the same when it was taken off.
    as long as engine is in same place as when u removed pump then it should be right as it is on a key the only adjustment after that is on the slots for the bolts. gdg

  28. #28
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Hasn't been turned since I took it out, I left it with 4 on the pump gear lined up with the idler gear as I only found the crank pulley marks today after searching for them. Something is not right anyway. Marks did not line up as they would be the same when it was taken off.
    You need not have bothered with the marks on the gear tbh, all you needed to do prior to removing the pump was take off the pump side plate, turn over the engine untill number 1 is tdc compression, there is a scribe mark on the rotor inside the pump, that obviously lines up with the pointer, the crank pointer will then be pointing ar whatever degree's before tdc ( 14 degree's I think ? )
    Anyway the way you have gone about you have no idea where the pump is in relation to the engine.
    What I would do from here is
    1- first leave the pump on
    2 - turn over engine untill top dead centre number 1 on compression ( take off rocker cover if necessary & check the valve )
    3 - Now move engine to 14 degree's before tdc
    4 - Take off the pump, turn over untill scribe mark is aligned
    5 - Refit pump ( the key should be in the right place )
    6 - Turn pump untill scribes aligned & tighten slotted bolts

    Job done, tighten all bolts, reassemble bleed & run

  29. #29
    candor
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Thank you Gapples, will try that and let you know how I get on.

    Does the pump do a full round internally per full round on the tapered shaft? Any good ways of turning it and when I had it off it was hard to turn by hand with a cloth, it's not jammed though.

  30. #30
    Gapples
    Guest

    Re: IH 674 Engine Probs

    Quote Originally Posted by candor View Post
    Thank you Gapples, will try that and let you know how I get on.

    Does the pump do a full round internally per full round on the tapered shaft? Any good ways of turning it and when I had it off it was hard to turn by hand with a cloth, it's not jammed though.
    Yes just make sure you turn the pump the right way round, you will need something like multi grip pliers on the shaft, its as hard as hell you wont mark it, grip on the woodruff key.
    It will turn in 4 stages sort of, very notchy, but turn untill you see the scribe mark & progress from there

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