Small Baler

[Sleepy]

Hi! I am looking at a Claas Markant 65 at the moment. I have never had much to do with balers - what are the key parts (i.e. most expensive) to examine?

Also has anyone any experience of using one to bale haylage? I have heard that the JD 459 can be tricky because of the cross auger. I realise that Welger balers are taken to be the dogs whatsits but cant find a reasonable one for reasonable money!

That sledge looks mighty!

Thanks.

Yeah I have a couple of customers who I bale haylage for.

First of all it is tedious - especially if there are wet lumps which just jam the baler up and you either have to shut down and go and pull it out by hand or wait and just hope it will chew through it. Gives the slip clutch a bit of a workout in haylage!

Forget using a 459 in haylage - I had on in straw last year and it was a pain even when the straw got a bit damp so wouldn't fancy it in haylage.

Try to make the haylage as dry as possible - basically hay. If it is too wet it will weigh a ton.

The sledge doesn't really like the short bales - they try to turn sideways.

But the Markant 65 does cope with it - and I'd say you were better spending 4k on a decent Markant 65 and have a bit of money to spend servicing it than 4 to 5k on a knackered Welger and have no money to spend servicing it.

Expensive parts - anything that gets pulled behind a tractor is expensive end of! Take a guess at what you think a part might cost and times it by 3 and you're most of the way there.

But billhooks are 180 quid each if they are worn out - leaving the twine fingers loose (one for each knotter) and a needle is about 150 if they have worn away.

But they are fairly simple balers to understand, don't seem to rust to badly and aren't obsolete yet (can still buy a new one I think).

[hughf]

Yeah I have a couple of customers who I bale haylage for.

First of all it is tedious - especially if there are wet lumps which just jam the baler up and you either have to shut down and go and pull it out by hand or wait and just hope it will chew through it. Gives the slip clutch a bit of a workout in haylage!


But they are fairly simple balers to understand, don't seem to rust to badly and aren't obsolete yet (can still buy a new one I think).

Not a good job for an old baler IMO.
I just wouldn't put haylage thru my 65. She is 1985 and I want it to keep going at reasonable cost.

Yes , a new one was sold near me last year.

[Dry Rot]

I raised a query about small bale haylage with a baler specialist (you know the one. Very decent people) and was told that the manufacturers probably wouldn't warrant any of their Welgers except the bigger ones for small bale haylage, i.e. the AP730 and 830. Presumably with the wider pickup, they are built stronger -- but it could have been a sales ploy.

Anyway, the difficulty of wrapping and handling the bales put me off the project and I did not take it further. If I win the lottery, one of those fancy wrappers looks the business though!

[icklerox]

Thanks for all your replies!

I will go and have a look at this Markant 65 then. We will give it a go for a year or two and if it doesnt work trade in the wee baler and wrapper for a cheap round baler. We have used contractors for the past two years and had awful results - contractors with too many demands on their time to care about my 40ac of haylage!

I was also having a look at a New Holland 570 in Northern Ireland as well I hear several small bale contractors use or used them - such a long way to go for a baler though. There is very few used conv balers in Scotland for sale.

Should we look at a new baler? Starting at 13k + Vat!!?!! (New Holland BC****) The machine would have to do more acres than mine though to earn its keep.

Thanks again,

[Sleepy]

I doubt I put more than 600 bales of haylage through mine last year.

If I thought it was so bad I wouldn't do it - its goes OK until you start finding wet lumps near the field edges or that hasn't been pulled up by the tedder.

I do charge twice as much though to cover the extra time and wear and tear.

But put it this way, if someone offered me 3000 bales of haylage to bale, I would probably do it.

[lou]

I've got a IH 440 and NH 386. Brought the 386 last year after realising the IH had got a problem. 386 is a cracking baler, really can get a shift on with it but it does make the bigger bale, which horsey customers werent really impressed with when they get 180 bales instead of the 350 they usally get(poor yield last year didnt help either) The bales were on the sloppy side i thought but think yield also effected this as couldnt get a row big enough for it!
The 440 makes, in my opinion the best bale, tight and the right shape! but unfortunatly can't go any faster than low 1st on the old DB otherwise it stops knotting on one side if theres too much going through! Gone through the manual and can only come up with that a tension bolt on the knotter may not be right?! But its one of those problems you dont know if you've cured it until your in the field and baling!! Anyone any other ideas?

Sleepygit: Cracking setup!!

Lou

[cyrush]

Hi Lou All the ajustments and settings for the 440 are detailed in the IH servicemans technical Data booklet (Twine & wire tying balers)

I can supply a copy on CD rom in PDF format. Snd me a PM with your email address.

[Gapples]

I've got a IH 440 and NH 386. Brought the 386 last year after realising the IH had got a problem. 386 is a cracking baler, really can get a shift on with it but it does make the bigger bale, which horsey customers werent really impressed with when they get 180 bales instead of the 350 they usally get(poor yield last year didnt help either) The bales were on the sloppy side i thought but think yield also effected this as couldnt get a row big enough for it!
The 440 makes, in my opinion the best bale, tight and the right shape! but unfortunatly can't go any faster than low 1st on the old DB otherwise it stops knotting on one side if theres too much going through! Gone through the manual and can only come up with that a tension bolt on the knotter may not be right?! But its one of those problems you dont know if you've cured it until your in the field and baling!! Anyone any other ideas?

Sleepygit: Cracking setup!!

Lou

Lou

Scooby is giving good advice there, I suspect that if your 440 is tying ok at slow speed but not in a higher gear the problem lies elsewhere from the knotters, more of a ram/needles set up job or our old friend material interference

[lou]

Thanks for the info chaps, will start and work through the possibilities when i get a day.

Many thanks again
lou

[lamplighter2]

Thanks for all your replies!

I will go and have a look at this Markant 65 then. We will give it a go for a year or two and if it doesnt work trade in the wee baler and wrapper for a cheap round baler. We have used contractors for the past two years and had awful results - contractors with too many demands on their time to care about my 40ac of haylage!

I was also having a look at a New Holland 570 in Northern Ireland as well I hear several small bale contractors use or used them - such a long way to go for a baler though. There is very few used conv balers in Scotland for sale.

Should we look at a new baler? Starting at 13k + Vat!!?!! (New Holland BC****) The machine would have to do more acres than mine though to earn its keep.

Thanks again,

just read the thread we had a markant 55 brilliant baler when we knew how to use it bales the same all the time you can get them for about £1600 in good nick the 65 may be better as its feed is larger so is quicker to bale if i could get some land to mow i get a class again or a welger but more money

[Sleepy]

Thinking of selling my Markant 65 again

Dragged it out of the shed the other day to give it it's once over.

Spent the morning with Claas spanner man on it, rebuilt clutches, checked knotters, general service.

Pulled it out again this afternoon, started it up and a couple of minutes later nasty grinding sound

One of the bearings on the plunger has disintegrated - looked fine when we had it out the week before

Starting to wonder whether reliability is becoming too much of an issue... it is getting on a bit now, hay is expensive..... more customers to bale for this year - reputations go very quickly

Anyone know of a decent Welger for sale?

[essexpete]

Thinking of selling my Markant 65 again

Dragged it out of the shed the other day to give it it's once over.

Spent the morning with Claas spanner man on it, rebuilt clutches, checked knotters, general service.

Pulled it out again this afternoon, started it up and a couple of minutes later nasty grinding sound

One of the bearings on the plunger has disintegrated - looked fine when we had it out the week before

Starting to wonder whether reliability is becoming too much of an issue... it is getting on a bit now, hay is expensive..... more customers to bale for this year - reputations go very quickly

Anyone know of a decent Welger for sale?

Did you pressure wash last year?

[Sleepy]

Did you pressure wash last year?

No - sprayed it in some oil after a dusting.

The more I look at it the more I feel it is getting sloppy in a lot of bushes etc and it is hard to know when to stop spending on it with parts being so expensive for it.

[hughf]

I would say you should change , it sounds like you have a good workload and that bearing incident has given you the heeby jeebies. If you run it again this year you'll be sitting on the edge of your seat every field just waiting to hear that awful screech or bang.... if it comes you'll be stuck and if it doesn't you'll be a bag of nerves.

Of course you might get a big bang with your replacement too , but that is the nature of the business as I am sure you well know.

[Sleepy]

I would say you should change , it sounds like you have a good workload and that bearing incident has given you the heeby jeebies. If you run it again this year you'll be sitting on the edge of your seat every field just waiting to hear that awful screech or bang.... if it comes you'll be stuck and if it doesn't you'll be a bag of nerves.

Of course you might get a big bang with your replacement too , but that is the nature of the business as I am sure you well know.

Yeh.. this is it!

I took the plunger out today - that bearing had well and truly gone... theres also some damage to the rails from where ball bearings had got stuck between and gouged it. I made it worse because I thought it was the pickup making noise so spent 15 minutes listening to the pickup trying to work out where it was coming from

I am sure the bearing will be plenty from Claas and no doubt the rails are even more expensive. I guess this is the dilemna with a 20+ year old baler.

Anyway want to hazard a guess what it is worth? I spent £600 on the knotters last year, it has been serviced ready for this year, pickup is in good order with all tines and a box of spares, most paint still on it, good tires, full road lighting, worked well last year apart from one knotter playing up traced back to worn out billhooks (180 pound each, replaced them both).

I have a matching sledge for it with hydraulic door and lights, new tires, Claas paint which I could sell with it. See further back for pictures.


As for Welgers... I've been on the phone today and think I'm looking at 7-8K for a smart one.

AP630 seems a bit cheaper than 730, and I'm not planning on putting hundreds of thousands of bales through it so think I am better off with a newer 630 than an older 730. 830 too big for roads.

[bob k]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WELGER-AP630-B...item19c5a4409a

[jpd]

Yeh.. this is it!

I took the plunger out today - that bearing had well and truly gone... theres also some damage to the rails from where ball bearings had got stuck between and gouged it. I made it worse because I thought it was the pickup making noise so spent 15 minutes listening to the pickup trying to work out where it was coming from

I am sure the bearing will be plenty from Claas and no doubt the rails are even more expensive. I guess this is the dilemna with a 20+ year old baler.

Anyway want to hazard a guess what it is worth? I spent £600 on the knotters last year, it has been serviced ready for this year, pickup is in good order with all tines and a box of spares, most paint still on it, good tires, full road lighting, worked well last year apart from one knotter playing up traced back to worn out billhooks (180 pound each, replaced them both).

I have a matching sledge for it with hydraulic door and lights, new tires, Claas paint which I could sell with it. See further back for pictures.


As for Welgers... I've been on the phone today and think I'm looking at 7-8K for a smart one.

AP630 seems a bit cheaper than 730, and I'm not planning on putting hundreds of thousands of bales through it so think I am better off with a newer 630 than an older 730. 830 too big for roads.

i am interested to know the price of the plunger bearings fot the claas.
i'm told they are very very expensive for a welger

[Sleepy]

i am interested to know the price of the plunger bearings fot the claas.
i'm told they are very very expensive for a welger

I will tell you when I get the invoice.


I am told up to a week to arrive Isn't exactly instilling confidence. Claas are not interested in small balers any more, period.

Heres a good writeup about Welger balers: kasutatud-welger-vaikepaki-pressid-pdf-may-24-2009-9-26-am-8-7-meg (application/pdf Object)

[bob k]

I will tell you when I get the invoice.


I am told up to a week to arrive Isn't exactly instilling confidence. Claas are not interested in small balers any more, period.

Heres a good writeup about Welger balers: kasutatud-welger-vaikepaki-pressid-pdf-may-24-2009-9-26-am-8-7-meg (application/pdf Object)

Ring Morris Corfield Much Wenlock sort you no probs deliver tomorrow.

[Sleepy]

Ring Morris Corfield Much Wenlock sort you no probs deliver tomorrow.

Will give him a go tomorrow cheers

Woodfields and my local dealer did not have it in stock. And I haven't heard back from dealer yet as to when.

[bob k]

Will give him a go tomorrow cheers

Woodfields and my local dealer did not have it in stock. And I haven't heard back from dealer yet as to when.

Speak to Chris, knock 60 per cent off what he quotes you :lolk:

[Remlap]

i am interested to know the price of the plunger bearings fot the claas.
i'm told they are very very expensive for a welger

Welger spares are horrendous, but they are the best small baler.

[Sleepy]

Welger spares are horrendous, but they are the best small baler.

Can you elaborate?

[jpd]

my information is a plunger bearing is upwards of €200 each for a welger

[Dry Rot]

my information is a plunger bearing is upwards of €200 each for a welger

There is surely a substitute? Would they seriously manufacture a one off bearing just for that baler??

Sounds a bit like the warning about importing Honda quad spares from the USA. "They won't fit. They are all made to Imperial sizes over there". Yeah, right!

I needed a hitch to pull a bale accumulator for mine. I was quoted a horrendous price by the dealers. The local engineers made one up for me at a fraction of the price. Similarly for the needle brake -- just got the old one relined for about £15. They'll charge what people are stupid enough to pay.

[jpd]

There is surely a substitute? Would they seriously manufacture a one off bearing just for that baler??

Sounds a bit like the warning about importing Honda quad spares from the USA. "They won't fit. They are all made to Imperial sizes over there". Yeah, right!

I needed a hitch to pull a bale accumulator for mine. I was quoted a horrendous price by the dealers. The local engineers made one up for me at a fraction of the price. Similarly for the needle brake -- just got the old one relined for about £15. They'll charge what people are stupid enough to pay.

no need to round on me
i was told this by a man that ran welger and massey balers
i was inquiring about the massey
he was free with his experience and knowdlege and this was his experence of running welger balers
i have access to wholesale bearing suppliers and specialized bearings are very expensive
what was special about welger plunger bearings i dont know-but i;d like to

[Sleepy]

I asked my local dealer today when I asked about whether they know anything about them or not...

90 pounds. Its a big bearing that runs along a round rail, so it has a semi circle cut all the way round it if you see what I mean.

[bob k]

I asked my local dealer today when I asked about whether they know anything about them or not...

90 pounds. Its a big bearing that runs along a round rail, so it has a semi circle cut all the way round it if you see what I mean.

I will be amazed if this bearing is not available from a bearing man, my claas combine bearings are all universal parts, by the way how many bearings is there.

[Sleepy]

I will be amazed if this bearing is not available from a bearing man, my claas combine bearings are all universal parts, by the way how many bearings is there.

Welger - 4 I think.

Claas, I think 8?

Its easy to take the plunger out, just undo the two bolts on the big bearing on the crank and then hook a ratchet strap or something on to the plunger and yank it out the back. Have to let bale tension right off and let off side tension plates fully. It makes it easier to sharpen the knife as well rather than trying to crawl in there.

Have you got a markant?

[Sleepy]

Think I have just brought a 2002 AP630, fully serviced and a seasons warranty.


fixed costings gone out the window

no i think it is the right thing to do, will be buggered if i end up getting more work this year and still stuck with the markant!