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Thread: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

  1. #1
    Pedders
    Guest

    Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    if anyone is interested then I am planning on drilling another batch of cover crop cocktail mix this year ...
    plan is to use fodder radish as the brassica rather than the black rape used last year
    this years cocktail will be
    Oats
    Vetch
    Tic beans
    Black sunflower
    Buckwheat
    Linseed
    Red millet
    Fodder Radish
    it comes in 20kg bags delivered by the pallet load

    This has to be mixed up in a minimum quantity of 4 tonnes so as I don't want a whole 4 tonne batch if anyone is interested in trying some this year let me know and we can combine the orders

    interesting article here First class cover

    I think all who tried it last year plan to repeat the experiment
    just pm me and we can take it from there

  2. #2
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    How much and what seed rate pedders? I'd like to try some

  3. #3
    Steevo
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    How much and what seed rate pedders? I'd like to try some
    Does it need to be grazed, or can it just be sprayed and drilled into?

  4. #4
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    hi Will seed rate used last year was 40-50Kg/Ha and I think everyone who tried it felt that was about right
    last years price was around 20/Ha not got a price back yet for this year but would expect it to have moved up a bit in line with the price of everything else
    so probably more like 25-28/Ha
    will know more in the next day or so
    cheers

  5. #5
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Steevo View Post
    Does it need to be grazed, or can it just be sprayed and drilled into?
    some grazed it including us and others just sprayed it off and direct drilled into it ..I think Simon_C did that not sure how he got on hopefully he can tell us himself

  6. #6
    Mr Bean
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Here's some pictures of Spring Beans into ungrazed 'Pedders Mix'.

    I'm very pleased with how the Beans now look. The only problem has been slug grazing on the beans, the lower leaves are fairly chewed off and they are still active on damp days. The Beans are so thick I don't expect any yield loss from the slug grazing. I think the main problem was there was black rape in last years mix and I am pleased to see Pedders has now removed it. The Fodder Radish grows very well and it's tap root no doubt is great for soil aeration but I think they also breed slugs, so I'm undecided about them at the moment.

    I am planning to contact Pedders about reordering.

  7. #7
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Anyone just watch Chris packam on BBC two? Just got annoyed a bit about the program. If we want to increase bird numbers, I think winter cover crops and no till fit the bill as it should not have to cost the taxpayer anything and still provide food and habitats for birds over winter. This seems so simple and everyone a winner. For anyone who did not see the program this post might seen a bit random, sorry

  8. #8
    Ewen McEwen
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    I had sheep grazing the Pedders Special last year and also straight oats out of the barn in same field, unsurprisinly they preffered the mix. Depending on the price you take for the oats last year the PS mix was similar price to straight oats, with hopefully advantages.

    Interestingly on a trip to Germany with Kentish Andy a few weeks ago we saw DSV's new range of cover crops under the " TerraLife" label. They included many of the Pedders Special ingredients. I'm trying to get prices as a comparison.

    Sorry Andy - didn't see Packham!

  9. #9
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    Anyone just watch Chris packam on BBC two? Just got annoyed a bit about the program. If we want to increase bird numbers, I think winter cover crops and no till fit the bill as it should not have to cost the taxpayer anything and still provide food and habitats for birds over winter. This seems so simple and everyone a winner. For anyone who did not see the program this post might seen a bit random, sorry
    We need to get someone like Jim Paice along to a NTA farmer open afternoon in November for him to see what we're trying to do.

  10. #10
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bean View Post
    Here's some pictures of Spring Beans into ungrazed 'Pedders Mix'.

    I'm very pleased with how the Beans now look. The only problem has been slug grazing on the beans, the lower leaves are fairly chewed off and they are still active on damp days. The Beans are so thick I don't expect any yield loss from the slug grazing. I think the main problem was there was black rape in last years mix and I am pleased to see Pedders has now removed it. The Fodder Radish grows very well and it's tap root no doubt is great for soil aeration but I think they also breed slugs, so I'm undecided about them at the moment.

    I am planning to contact Pedders about reordering.
    That is incredibly impressive.

  11. #11
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Ewen McEwen View Post
    I had sheep grazing the Pedders Special last year and also straight oats out of the barn in same field, unsurprisinly they preffered the mix. Depending on the price you take for the oats last year the PS mix was similar price to straight oats, with hopefully advantages.

    Interestingly on a trip to Germany with Kentish Andy a few weeks ago we saw DSV's new range of cover crops under the " TerraLife" label. They included many of the Pedders Special ingredients. I'm trying to get prices as a comparison.

    Sorry Andy - didn't see Packham!
    York did not think that the "terra-life" mixes would be available in the UK. Worth asking DSV though. I expect you might get a shock on the price!

  12. #12
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    York did not think that the "terra-life" mixes would be available in the UK. Worth asking DSV though. I expect you might get a shock on the price!
    Andy,
    maybe the English is a little causing difficulty. When I talk about available I mean marketed via proper channels. I would be surprised if you decide to have some that it will not be shipped to you. We had some send last year to our "traveling Brothers" which you met also and shared some beer with. :-)
    As you have the info brochures just send a mail to the headquarters of what you want, always divide by 25 kg bags, and then you will get a pricing. When you send me a copy of the mail I will take care that it is "processed" with the needed speed.
    the prices, to my knowledge, range from 25 to less than 100 /ha. Now the high prices are for special mixes to increase soil health, suppress certain diseases, on ground planted next year with potatoes.
    As I have been seeing the development of the mixes I only can say that there is a lot of knowledge put into so that you have balanced mixes which use by the specific root development the whole soil profile and that the amount of each varaity is not too much that it will suppress other species in the mix. Not very easy to archive.
    I'm happy that Pedders is involved in it as it need some local "promoters" of this which get the right mixes developed for the local enviroment.
    York-Th.

  13. #13
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Andy,
    maybe the English is a little causing difficulty. When I talk about available I mean marketed via proper channels. I would be surprised if you decide to have some that it will not be shipped to you. We had some send last year to our "traveling Brothers" which you met also and shared some beer with. :-)
    As you have the info brochures just send a mail to the headquarters of what you want, always divide by 25 kg bags, and then you will get a pricing. When you send me a copy of the mail I will take care that it is "processed" with the needed speed.
    the prices, to my knowledge, range from 25 to less than 100 /ha. Now the high prices are for special mixes to increase soil health, suppress certain diseases, on ground planted next year with potatoes.
    As I have been seeing the development of the mixes I only can say that there is a lot of knowledge put into so that you have balanced mixes which use by the specific root development the whole soil profile and that the amount of each varaity is not too much that it will suppress other species in the mix. Not very easy to archive.
    I'm happy that Pedders is involved in it as it need some local "promoters" of this which get the right mixes developed for the local enviroment.
    York-Th.
    Well "Ewen" if you find out more then maybe we can share the haulage. I would not mind trying some N-Fixx or Bio Max along side Pedders Mix for a comparison. Let me know how you get on. Sorry York, I took you too literally.

  14. #14
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    Andy,

    I'm happy that Pedders is involved in it as it need some local "promoters" of this which get the right mixes developed for the local enviroment.
    York-Th.
    thats is what we are trying to do ..adapt the mix according to peoples experience ...we are now planning to run two different mixes this year
    one with the brassica in the form of fodder radish and one without as Mr Bean felt that slugs could be encouraged by the radish ...others want the radish for its deep tap root ..we've also removed the tic beans and replaced with peas as some bean growers felt more comfortable with having no beans in their mixes
    final prices should be available in the next few days but looking to be around the 20-25 Ha mark

  15. #15
    Gadget
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    What would a good cover crop be if you have a WW, WOSR, WW, S.Beans/Potatoes rotation?
    We are not DD'ing but are looking to keep the structure over winter before the spring Beans on high silt/clay soils.

    Thank you

    Geoff

  16. #16
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget View Post
    What would a good cover crop be if you have a WW, WOSR, WW, S.Beans/Potatoes rotation?
    We are not DD'ing but are looking to keep the structure over winter before the spring Beans on high silt/clay soils.

    Thank you

    Geoff
    well I think that the pedders mix without radish should do you ok
    only problem with not DDing is establishing as IMO it really needs to be drilled as there is a diverse range of seed sizes
    probably something like a horsch or Vraddy would do the job
    seed rate 40-50 Kg /Ha cost 0.60/Kg and that would come out at about 25.00 Ha

  17. #17
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    for this year we are now planning to have three mixes running
    Mix # 1
    Oats
    Vetch
    Maple peas
    Black sunflower
    Buckwheat
    Linseed
    Red millet
    Fodder Radish

    mix # 2 same as above but no radish

    mix # 3 cereals/grass free so volunteers can be sprayed out
    Vetch
    Maple peas
    chick peas
    Black sunflower
    Buckwheat
    Linseed
    safflower (for deep rooting)

  18. #18
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    some may have seen these pics before but this is what the first years mix looked like when growing
    Attachment 28892
    Attachment 28893
    Attachment 28894

    and what was left after winter and grazing

    Attachment 28896

  19. #19
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kentish_Andy View Post
    York did not think that the "terra-life" mixes would be available in the UK. Worth asking DSV though. I expect you might get a shock on the price!
    Andy,
    maybe that has changed. At least, as I was looking for some info not in German, I found some info in English, even a PPT presentation which explains pretty good the "phylosophy" of the Terra Life programm:
    The main page in English: http://www.eurograss.com/other-products/terralife/
    and the presentation:
    http://www.eurograss.com/upload/docs...euro_grass.pdf
    Page 4 & 5 are one of the keys why we need mixes.
    For the "Grasers" the "Landsberger Gemenge" - Landsberger mix, is of special interest.
    The last page is stating:
    :::::::::
    TerraLife-Landsberger Gemenge
    High yielding winter catch crop with a high protein content
    Developed in 1928 by employee of DSV-Deutsche Saatveredelung in
    Landsberg an der Warthe
    High green- and dry matter yield with a high feeding value and very
    good rooting
    Soil life will be supported, the soil structure will be improved and
    stabilized, infiltration will be increased
    Growth can be used for grazing, cutting, fresh feeding, silage production
    or fallow with vegetation cover
    Successful since more than 80 years
    ..........
    Hope this is helping more people to understand and increasing the motivation to start in this direction.
    York-Th.

  20. #20
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    a couple of photos of cover crop mix. One after drilling 3 weeks ago with JD750a and one from today

  21. #21
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Is that baled straw?

  22. #22
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    No, we never bale anything

  23. #23
    Alistair McLaren
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Any current photos of your cover crops. Have they come well in this dry time? Would like to use cover crops here in the future. As an ELS option this might help get them here I hope and keep the bloody plough out of the fields in front of the spring crops!

  24. #24
    martian
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Afraid I haven't got a camera, which is a shame as cover mix has grown astonishingly well considering the dry. Radishes the size of your fist, sunflowers above the knee. Buckwheat killed by frost and the rest of it rapidly being eaten by a large mob of delighted yearling store cattle. Dry weather been a boon for that.

    Admittedly it's quite kind ground, but it was drilled into thick chopped straw, in the wet time at the end of harvest and never looked back.

  25. #25
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    taken a few weeks ago

  26. #26
    autopilot
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedders View Post
    thats is what we are trying to do ..adapt the mix according to peoples experience ...we are now planning to run two different mixes this year
    one with the brassica in the form of fodder radish and one without as Mr Bean felt that slugs could be encouraged by the radish ...others want the radish for its deep tap root ..we've also removed the tic beans and replaced with peas as some bean growers felt more comfortable with having no beans in their mixes
    final prices should be available in the next few days but looking to be around the 20-25 Ha mark
    We grow brassica's in our rotation so do you think adding fodder radish will increase the incidence of club root?

  27. #27
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by autopilot View Post
    We grow brassica's in our rotation so do you think adding fodder radish will increase the incidence of club root?
    No I don't ...the radish isn't in the ground for long enough and also being part of a diverse mix rather than a monoculture I think makes a difference
    however we did have another mix this year without Radish or Brassicas for those that didnt want them ..Mr Bean had a batch of it perhaps he may put a pic up here to see how its done

  28. #28
    autopilot
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedders View Post
    No I don't ...the radish isn't in the ground for long enough and also being part of a diverse mix rather than a monoculture I think makes a difference however we did have another mix this year without Radish or Brassicas for those that didnt want them ..Mr Bean had a batch of it perhaps he may put a pic up here to see how its done
    How long would you suggest it is left in the ground? The reason I ask is that I would like the benefits of the Radish with its tap root, but I have a long gap between ploughing and planting. e.g. ploughed late Oct but not plant broccoli until mid June.

    Occasionally we can grow vining peas first, harvest them by mid July, plant broccoli and harvest by end of Oct then drill winter wheat (only on the best land!), but most of our veg fields are bare land from Nov to June. Unfortunately most of the land is too heavy to leave the ploughing until spring.

  29. #29
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by autopilot View Post
    How long would you suggest it is left in the ground? The reason I ask is that I would like the benefits of the Radish with its tap root, but I have a long gap between ploughing and planting. e.g. ploughed late Oct but not plant broccoli until mid June.

    Occasionally we can grow vining peas first, harvest them by mid July, plant broccoli and harvest by end of Oct then drill winter wheat (only on the best land!), but most of our veg fields are bare land from Nov to June. Unfortunately most of the land is too heavy to leave the ploughing until spring.
    so are you looking for something that can be planted into bare ground when you plough in November for overwintering until June the following year
    or something planted straight after harvest ?

  30. #30
    autopilot
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    I think it would be after the plough as I would be tempted to plough it in too early, especially in a wetter autumn.

    However I am also a bit concerned about leaving it in the ground too long as it could cause problems with the top growth clogging up the planter. I was hoping just to spray it off and then plant the modules.

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