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Thread: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

  1. #181
    stroller
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    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed


  2. #182
    155tm
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonC View Post
    maybe we should be trying broadcasting in the previous crop several weeks before cutting. There are problems with this, in a wet time the cover could be up and start to interfere with combining and, when dry, the seed won't grow just laid on the surface. I am going to grow some hard red spring wheat again this year which gets about 4 feet tall so maybe an opportunity to have some greenery in the bottom and then cut it high. In the dry time situation where the cover seed is still sitting there at harvest, a quick run over with a rake and/or rolls the next day might just get it going.

    I don't think we will ever be able to grow the equivalent of 8 foot high maize without any nitrogen but we should be trying to get a little closer to that sort of N cycling.
    Thinking about broadcasting in the standing crop I had found a video where a french farmer had mounted a seed drill hopper and metering system onto a trailed sprayer with outlets spaced across the boom to deliver the seed more accurately.

    What i intended to write is could you split the cover crop? short slow growing seeds broadcast into the standing crop before harvest, and low disturbance drill the larger leafier greener seeds after harvest. Small seeds broadcast on the surface and larger seeds sown. Start fixing some N with broadcast vetch and clover before seeding sunflower maize oat rye to use that N?

  3. #183
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by 155tm View Post
    Thinking about broadcasting in the standing crop I had found a video where a french farmer had mounted a seed drill hopper and metering system onto a trailed sprayer with outlets spaced across the boom to deliver the seed more accurately.

    What i intended to write is could you split the cover crop? short slow growing seeds broadcast into the standing crop before harvest, and low disturbance drill the larger leafier greener seeds after harvest. Small seeds broadcast on the surface and larger seeds sown. Start fixing some N with broadcast vetch and clover before seeding sunflower maize oat rye to use that N?
    I'm thinking my Kuhn Aero with rowcrops on the tractor will be fine to run through with cover seed. Small seeds have more chance of germinating on the surface than bigger ones so splitting them may be a good idea. Why not go when the wheat is still green, 4 or 6 weeks before harvest, more chance of getting some moisture and I think with tall wheat there would not be a problem with too much greenery at harvest. Just run the Stripper Header above the cover crop, job done. Then drill in what ever you think it needs behind the combine, sort of gives you two chances to get it right, even patch in bits that aren't thick enough.

  4. #184
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    I'm planning on using outcast (2x12m) spreaders on the Bateman 2-3 weeks pre harvest with small seeds and then drill larger seeds after harvest If time and conditions look right

    Either this or fit combine header with an old terracast we have and sow at harvest so seed is below straw matt and we can roll it in straight away ? - I'm going to rig the terra cast up anyway to apply slug pellets when required below the straw matt

    Which to you reckon would give best results ?

  5. #185
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    I'm planning on using outcast (2x12m) spreaders on the Bateman 2-3 weeks pre harvest with small seeds and then drill larger seeds after harvest If time and conditions look right

    Either this or fit combine header with an old terracast we have and sow at harvest so seed is below straw matt and we can roll it in straight away ? - I'm going to rig the terra cast up anyway to apply slug pellets when required below the straw matt

    Which to you reckon would give best results ?
    With three different establishment methods there you can be flexible and use what ever suits at the time. If it's hot and dry leading up to harvest there may be no point in chucking seed about, you just need to be in a position to utilize opportunities as they arise.

  6. #186
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonC View Post
    With three different establishment methods there you can be flexible and use what ever suits at the time. If it's hot and dry leading up to harvest there may be no point in chucking seed about, you just need to be in a position to utilize opportunities as they arise.
    makes sense I guess

    so with benefit of hindsight and my 3 options what would have worked best this year then ?

  7. #187
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    makes sense I guess

    so with benefit of hindsight and my 3 options what would have worked best this year then ?
    Should have spread before harvest with all the rain we had, it would all be two feet high by now.

  8. #188
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonC View Post
    Should have spread before harvest with all the rain we had, it would all be two feet high by now.
    yes but may well of been a PITA for the combine it would have grown so well !

    risky way to go if the rain doesn't know when to stop like this year

  9. #189
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    yes but may well of been a PITA for the combine it would have grown so well !

    risky way to go if the rain doesn't know when to stop like this year
    Which is why I was talking about doing it into 4 foot high Hard Red Wheat. These things need a fair bit of planning in advance to get each part of the rotation to follow on seamlessly to the next.

    By the way, the reason they get on so well with Stripper Headers in America/Canada is that they grow these red wheats that are difficult to thrash and so don't get the losses we have had. When I have grow it in the past, it was impossible to get a clean sample, the whole lot was full of unthrashed grain.

  10. #190
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    seeding a cover crop pre harvest in the standing crop is not new. So "nothing new under the4 sun" This system was described in the 1890's and they did throw lupins into a rye crop.
    In the US they spread various seeds, small & large into maize after it has flowered. We do the same in small grain, after flowering get the plants into it. Even big seeds, like Faba Beens will work in most cases, only in extreme drought conditions not.
    Just try some with your had next year. Go out each week, after flowering of the grain, and do spread some seeds into the wheat on little plots. don't get to sientific, just do it. The worst what can happen is: you can't harvest the wheat because of the intersown crop. So what, it's only a little area, like 2 x 2 m, this will not ruin you.
    York-Th.

  11. #191
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by York View Post
    seeding a cover crop pre harvest in the standing crop is not new. So "nothing new under the4 sun" This system was described in the 1890's and they did throw lupins into a rye crop.
    In the US they spread various seeds, small & large into maize after it has flowered. We do the same in small grain, after flowering get the plants into it. Even big seeds, like Faba Beens will work in most cases, only in extreme drought conditions not.
    Just try some with your had next year. Go out each week, after flowering of the grain, and do spread some seeds into the wheat on little plots. don't get to sientific, just do it. The worst what can happen is: you can't harvest the wheat because of the intersown crop. So what, it's only a little area, like 2 x 2 m, this will not ruin you.
    York-Th.
    my trouble is York i'm a born risk taker and very impatient ! if I think something is a good idea I do it ............hundreds of ac's at a time

  12. #192
    York
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    my trouble is York i'm a born risk taker and very impatient ! if I think something is a good idea I do it ............hundreds of ac's at a time
    The winter is long enough to do a sound in depth research & review to minimize the risk for a "risk taker".
    York-Th.

  13. #193
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonC View Post
    Which is why I was talking about doing it into 4 foot high Hard Red Wheat. These things need a fair bit of planning in advance to get each part of the rotation to follow on seamlessly to the next.

    By the way, the reason they get on so well with Stripper Headers in America/Canada is that they grow these red wheats that are difficult to thrash and so don't get the losses we have had. When I have grow it in the past, it was impossible to get a clean sample, the whole lot was full of unthrashed grain.
    have been looking at this red wheat contract

    i think it would suit no till well. drill april, not that late.

    low yield but decent margin- low trash for next year, and probably great opportunity to establish decent covers.

    question is, is 135 over feed enough? i also think the least you should expect from a 4t/ha crop is disease resistance. AC BARRIE is awful for yellow rust & mildew apparently?

  14. #194
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by shakerator View Post
    question is, is 135 over feed enough? i also think the least you should expect from a 4t/ha crop is disease resistance. AC BARRIE is awful for yellow rust & mildew apparently?
    It's a few years since I grew it, there was a fair bit of mildew early on which was easily controlled, just needed CCC and Moddus to stop it getting silly tall. Didn't really see much yellow rust.

  15. #195
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    what sort of yield simon?

  16. #196
    SimonC
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by shakerator View Post
    what sort of yield simon?
    Best I had was 2 tons/acre, but I think that could be improved on a bit. Budget on 1.5 to be safe though.

  17. #197
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Took this picture of a fodder radish today. Cover not drilled until 20th August and does not look anything special above ground. It just shows what is going on underground is more important. I might have to destroy this cover and put into second wheat as this ground will probably drill soon whereas other areas that were planned to go into winter wheat will probably not go. The cover has done a good job so not too worried about terminating early. Needs must this year!! [/U]

  18. #198
    Mayo
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    I still don't like the idea of this cocktail of stuff you are paying good money for and putting it on/in however you do it.

    If you have access to sheep or whatever I would do turnips or redstart or something, keep it cheap and simple.

    If you're merely looking for ground cover would volunteers not be enough?

    My concern is that you are applying a cocktail of stuff, legumes, cereals, grasses, brassicas and surely this is a disease/pest haven for other crops in the rotation, or is it that you have such a mixture of stuff, that no real pest or disease population can establish?

  19. #199
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayo View Post
    I still don't like the idea of this cocktail of stuff you are paying good money for and putting it on/in however you do it.

    If you have access to sheep or whatever I would do turnips or redstart or something, keep it cheap and simple.

    If you're merely looking for ground cover would volunteers not be enough?

    My concern is that you are applying a cocktail of stuff, legumes, cereals, grasses, brassicas and surely this is a disease/pest haven for other crops in the rotation, or is it that you have such a mixture of stuff, that no real pest or disease population can establish?
    You answered the question yourself. Diversity is key.

  20. #200
    Kentish_Andy
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Sheep went in Friday and more today.

  21. #201
    Col
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    For the likes of red clover, what is the seed rate and how long would it have to be left in the ground to do any good. I could broadcast stuff from the slug pellet applicator on the sprayer (has 3 spinners for 36m) when doing preharvest roundup. But anything over 10kg/ha would be a bit tedious!
    All the straw is baled so by the time it is off the field that is another week of potential growth gone.

  22. #202
    Pedders
    Guest

    Re: Cover Crop Cocktail Seed

    Quote Originally Posted by Col View Post
    For the likes of red clover, what is the seed rate and how long would it have to be left in the ground to do any good. I could broadcast stuff from the slug pellet applicator on the sprayer (has 3 spinners for 36m) when doing preharvest roundup. But anything over 10kg/ha would be a bit tedious!
    All the straw is baled so by the time it is off the field that is another week of potential growth gone.
    you'd be wasting your time with Red clover and the seed is horrendously expensive

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