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Thread: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

  1. #1
    Jon
    Guest

    Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    I understand that this is possible and I believe I pretty much have the equipment required - X20 controlling N sensor, Topcon RTK receiver currently used to steer another tractor. Spreader is a Kuhn Axis 40.1W

    Is anyone doing this already and does it work well?

    Cheers,

    Jon

  2. #2
    maresi
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    We use GPS shut off on a Vicon RO EDW. It does work well but obviously there are only 2 sections in effect, a left and a right. It does make a difference, but probably more from the point of making the operators job easier than from saving heaps of fertiliser although it does mean the operation is as accurate as it can be with that machine

  3. #3
    Andrew Kerr
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Is it better used on the hyd disc drive machines that are more variable in speeds?

  4. #4
    foxbox
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Wasn't there something in the press recently about an Amazone spreader that has been released which will drop the spread width in 2m increments based on GPS? Guessing it's possible but likely to be a few years before all the manufacturers get there.

  5. #5
    Niels
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Previously only Amazone could offer a variable auto shuft-off on their fertiliser spreaders (I believe?). This was done by reducing the rpm's as the disc's were hydraulically driven. The biggest issue with this is that the spreader doesn't spread as well when the disc's are not turning at the correct speed.

    Kverneland/Vicon have launched a new system last year, GeoSpread, which changed the point where the fert hits the disc. By doing so (with two small electric motors) they can chuck it further or closer with an accuracy of about 1 metre. Amazone have since copied the system and have ditched the hydraulic disc drive. For the section control spreader you do need the fancy Isobus terminal Isomatch II.

    By putting an N-sensor on the front you could apply variable rate as well. A friend of mine has a bunch of Green Seeker sensors on the front hitch mounted on an old sprayer. Works well so far and if the reductions in fertiliser useage are significant enough they will mount them on their sprayer and copy the data from the sprayer to the spreader. The problem currently being that the fertiliser spreader doesn't cover the cereal fields often enough.

  6. #6
    Oscar
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    The only trouble with the Amazone type system is that if you imagine coming to a angled headland then yes as you get closer by reducing the speed of the disc you can stop it throwing so far, BUT when you go to the next tramline you want to throw the fert to the out side only but you can t do that with a disc system so it only works one sided IYSWIM.

  7. #7
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    I just heard about the Kverneland Geospread "2m section control" system the other day and was intrigued. Would a Topcon X30 screen work with this system? (I assume so since it has Isobus.)

    Anyone have any experience with this system?

  8. #8
    Rob
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Yes x30 will geo spread down to 2m sections

  9. #9
    Chapelton
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Amazone do it with the Hydro Profi and GPS Switch:

    http://service.amazone.de/microsites...uer_itfarming/

    Kuhn do now do it but you need a 50.1 H EMC or Axera to get it auto.
    40.1W can do it manually - you just have to click the up and down buttons on the Quantron box. I'm told the privilage of Auto (50.1) is 10k more.

    Cheers

  10. #10
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Thanks for the replies.

  11. #11
    Farmer T
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    We're going down the route of automatic variable spreading (n, p and k) with SOYL.

    I've got a PTO driven Kuhn 40.1 spinner on order. Should I be going down the route of a hydraulic spinner so I can spread in the short work more accurately? How does the Quantronbox shorten the tramlines if the discs are going at the same rate?

  12. #12
    Farmer Wally
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Surely if you use a individual hydraulic drives for either side it would affect the spread pattern on the other side as the discs throw out in a V shape which overlap each other, so if you slow one side down to narrow the width on the outside it wouldnt cover properly in the centre of the machine.

    We use a vicon geo and X30 which works ok and it seems to be more precise on what we apply but you have to remember no matter how you look at it, you can not cut down precisely in 2metre sections because they are spinning discs which are still throwing/pelting across the field. your not placing it or spraying .!

  13. #13
    Farmer T
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Thanks Wally- fair point.

    Have been reading up on it tonight and Kuhn are bringing out a hydraulic system system that automatic changes the width by placing the fertiliser nearer the edge of the disc so it spreads it not as far. The current models can do either full spreading or half but you have to get out of the cab to do this.

    I also read Amazon are going away from theory of slowing the spinning disc down due to the point you made. Seems there isn't the perfect system quite yet but progress is being made.

  14. #14
    Farmer Wally
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    The Vicon geo spreader works by altering the point of release to narrow the width on the outside but it then has to alter the flow so it doesn't over apply over the narrower width, you could then say your slightly under applying as the V shape spread pattern goes back to the other side (as I said its not a precise science when your throwing it across the width you've choosen to spread)

    Perscription maps to vari rate for your P&K is the one thing which is most likely to save you money but you must apply straights.
    Auto shut off on your headland helps
    But
    Don't get sucked in by the sales reps talking up sectional control, it may help with not over applying a little, but it is still a spinning disc and not a sprayer boom

    Don't get me wrong I love the spreader but you have to stay in the real world with the term "sectional control" when your broadcasting .!

  15. #15
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Pretty easy thing to do - we have same gps kit on a breadal k45 controlling disc shut off

  16. #16
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer T View Post
    Thanks Wally- fair point.

    Have been reading up on it tonight and Kuhn are bringing out a hydraulic system system that automatic changes the width by placing the fertiliser nearer the edge of the disc so it spreads it not as far. The current models can do either full spreading or half but you have to get out of the cab to do this.

    I also read Amazon are going away from theory of slowing the spinning disc down due to the point you made. Seems there isn't the perfect system quite yet but progress is being made.
    There is a perfect system, it's liquid !

  17. #17
    Niels
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Farmer T: I have an article on my computer from a Dutch farming magazine which tested the Kverneland GeoSpread fertiliser spreader to see if the spread pattern was accurate and would stay so when varying the width. She came out quite well. Can email it to you if you like, send me a PM. Is in Dutch though but pictures and graphics should speak for themselves.

    All tests were carried out by Dave Ryan from spreader R&D. He's an Englishman but i don't know if he does any work in the UK as well?

  18. #18
    Farmer T
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Only going on what I've found out but the more moving parts you have on a spinner the more problems you have as the fertiliser can be very harsh on the machine.

    It seems there is no perfect setup (apart from liquid fert, thank you Clive!) for sectional control but for a first venture into soil mapping, variable nutrients and automatic spreading rate I think I'm happy for now. Please don't quote me on this in 6 months time.

  19. #19
    AnthonyR
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    We have been using an Amazone Hydro Profi with auto section control for 2 seasons now, spreading mostly granular urea to 36m.

    We have had the spreader tray tested twice, on both the full width and with the spreader partly shut down on one side to mimick the use in short land, it has always been in spec at full width, but when shut down the pattern was not as good but still acceptable according to the chap that did it.

    The system is really easy to setup with different ferts etc unlike some spreaders I could mention and is also very easy to use in the field.

    Good bit of kit unlike their sprayers.

  20. #20
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Wally View Post
    The Vicon geo spreader works by altering the point of release to narrow the width on the outside but it then has to alter the flow so it doesn't over apply over the narrower width, you could then say your slightly under applying as the V shape spread pattern goes back to the other side (as I said its not a precise science when your throwing it across the width you've choosen to spread)

    Perscription maps to vari rate for your P&K is the one thing which is most likely to save you money but you must apply straights.
    Auto shut off on your headland helps
    But
    Don't get sucked in by the sales reps talking up sectional control, it may help with not over applying a little, but it is still a spinning disc and not a sprayer boom

    Don't get me wrong I love the spreader but you have to stay in the real world with the term "sectional control" when your broadcasting .!
    What do you think of the build quality of the Vicon?

  21. #21
    Feldspar
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonyR View Post
    We have been using an Amazone Hydro Profi with auto section control for 2 seasons now, spreading mostly granular urea to 36m.

    We have had the spreader tray tested twice, on both the full width and with the spreader partly shut down on one side to mimick the use in short land, it has always been in spec at full width, but when shut down the pattern was not as good but still acceptable according to the chap that did it.

    The system is really easy to setup with different ferts etc unlike some spreaders I could mention and is also very easy to use in the field.

    Good bit of kit unlike their sprayers.
    Do you mind expanding on this? Are you saying that the Vicon is very tricky to set up? Comments from anyone else on this issue are most welcome!

  22. #22
    Farmer Wally
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldspar View Post
    What do you think of the build quality of the Vicon?
    Only had it 6 months not really had a problem (apart from a small software issue which they sorted) Havent seen anything major in the build quality, apart from they use two cables in the light socket and the zip tie them together, zip tie ends keep scratching my hands .! Shocking lol

    Have to say our last spreader was an Amazone but it was not good on its build quality so we decided to have a change..!

    Ask me in two years what I think to it .!

    Doesn't matter what you buy you might get a Friday night machine as they say..!

  23. #23
    Farmer Wally
    Guest

    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldspar View Post
    Do you mind expanding on this? Are you saying that the Vicon is very tricky to set up? Comments from anyone else on this issue are most welcome!
    Have to say our vicon geo is easier to set up and more accurate than our last spreader.!

  24. #24
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Quote Originally Posted by maresi View Post
    We use GPS shut off on a Vicon RO EDW. It does work well but obviously there are only 2 sections in effect, a left and a right. It does make a difference, but probably more from the point of making the operators job easier than from saving heaps of fertiliser although it does mean the operation is as accurate as it can be with that machine
    Just wondering... I have the same spreader with a topcon x20 but can get no information from them for GPS shut off.. What controller are you using?
    i have a x20, focus 2, edw spreader.
    i use the x20 for spraying and seeding control.
    cheers

  25. #25
    Senior Member Badshot's Avatar
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    I have the kv coloured version of this spreader. It should be iso compliant, is the x20 iso?
    It's amazing with their own tellus screen. And very easy to use.
    Last edited by Badshot; 16-06-13 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Bloody phone auto correct, apparently tellus screen should be hung on a wall and called trellis
    If in doubt get a bigger hammer

  26. #26
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    The spreader is iso, but I don't think the x20 is, only the newer x30.
    the x20 however can control third party items such as flexicoil, Harding etc via zynxlink. But can't seem to get an answer on vicon, kv.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Badshot's Avatar
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Robt is your man, he sells topcon gear.
    If in doubt get a bigger hammer

  28. #28
    Junior Member
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Badshot : to confirm the X20 is not ISO

    LUX8 : "I have the same spreader with a topcon x20 but can get no information from them for GPS shut off." Obviously not asked the right people...

    The X20 will send a rate to the spreader, we can control pretty much all spreaders using this method. GPS shutoff is a little more complex, depending on your exact setup we may only be able to send a rate but may be able to do autosection left / right depending on what you have.

    Any questions send them over to info@precisiondecisions.co.uk and I'll sort you out.

    James S
    Formally AgritechGizmo.

  29. #29
    Junior Member
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Thanks, I'll send you an email.
    I have definitely not talked to the right people... One suggested that it might be possible... But then said if its not on my zynxlink list (which it isn't) then probably not. The other suggested that it will only show the rate on the x20 but nothing else.

  30. #30
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    Re: Fert spreader GPS auto-section control

    Have sent you an email..

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