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Thread: General Election, and Brexit.

  1. #31
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by b slicker View Post
    This is copied from the Conservative party manifesto

    I have highlighted some of the more relevant paragraphs.


    Our countryside communities
    We will bring sustainable growth to the rural economy and boost our rural areas, so that
    people who live in the countryside have the same opportunities as those who live in our
    towns and cities.
    We have huge ambitions for our farming industry: we are determined to grow more, sell
    more and export more great British food. We want to provide stability to farmers as we
    leave the EU and set up new frameworks for supporting food production and stewardship
    of the countryside. So we will continue to commit the same cash total in funds for farm
    support until the end of the parliament. We will work with farmers, food producers and
    environmental experts across Britain and with the devolved administrations to devise a
    new agri-environment system, to be introduced in the following parliament.
    Our countryside and rural communities have been moulded by generations of farmers.
    We will help Natural England to expand their provision of technical expertise to farmers
    to deliver environmental improvements on a landscape scale, from enriching soil fertility
    to planting hedgerows and building dry stone walls. We will deliver on our commitment
    to improve natural flood management, such as improving the quality of water courses to
    protect against soil erosion and damage to vulnerable habitats and communities. We will
    continue to ensure that public forests and woodland are kept in trust for the nation, and
    provide stronger protections for our ancient woodland.
    We will continue to take action to improve animal welfare. We will implement
    our proposed reforms on pet sales and licensing and will make CCTV recording in
    slaughterhouses mandatory. As we leave the European Union, we can take early steps to
    control the export of live farm animals for slaughter.
    We will also take steps to enhance the provision of public services in rural areas. We
    will safeguard the post office network, to protect existing rural services and work with
    the Post Office to extend the availability of business and banking services to families
    and small businesses in rural areas. A third of all SMEs in rural areas use their post
    office weekly and our ambition is that all routine small business and consumer banking
    services should be available in rural post offices. We will support pharmacies and village
    schools in rural areas.
    We will grant a free vote, on a government bill in government time, to give parliament the
    opportunity to decide the future of the Hunting Act.
    Finally, we pledge to be the first generation to leave the environment in a better state than
    we inherited it. That is why we shall produce a comprehensive 25 Year Environment Plan
    that will chart how we will improve our environment as we leave the European Union
    and take control of our environmental legislation again.
    I seem to be hearing an awful lot of ducks of many varied colours farting under water just lately.
    Jack Caley

  2. #32
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    I have reached the conclusion that all manifestos, from any party that you care to name, are works of fiction. Nothing more, nothing less.

  3. #33
    Senior Member LALANS's Avatar
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Jack
    Years ago a wiser man than me stated that 'there is nothing more sincere than the words of a politician and the kiss of a prostitute'.
    Everyone tells fibs just some tell bigger fibs than others and mostly politicians of whatever hue.
    I repeat the mantra of Churchill 'KBO, Keep Buggering On'

  4. #34
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    We will help Natural England to expand their provision of technical expertise to farmers
    to deliver environmental improvements on a landscape scale, from enriching soil fertility
    to planting hedgerows and building dry stone walls. We will deliver on our commitment
    to improve natural flood management, such as improving the quality of water courses to
    protect against soil erosion and damage to vulnerable habitats and communities.

    Am I the only one worried about this statement? It sounds like yet more sanctioned meddling by university types who have a little knowledge and big ideas.

  5. #35
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    We will help Natural England to expand their provision of technical expertise to farmers
    to deliver environmental improvements on a landscape scale, from enriching soil fertility
    to planting hedgerows and building dry stone walls. We will deliver on our commitment
    to improve natural flood management, such as improving the quality of water courses to
    protect against soil erosion and damage to vulnerable habitats and communities.

    Am I the only one worried about this statement? It sounds like yet more sanctioned meddling by university types who have a little knowledge and big ideas.
    On Farming Today. There is much pressure to divert all the single farm payment to environmental.
    I think that is most likely to happen,also the reference to live animal exports. Puts even more relevance to the discussion on tariffs.
    Jack Caley

  6. #36
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    We will help Natural England to expand their provision of technical expertise to farmers
    to deliver environmental improvements on a landscape scale, from enriching soil fertility
    to planting hedgerows and building dry stone walls. We will deliver on our commitment
    to improve natural flood management, such as improving the quality of water courses to
    protect against soil erosion and damage to vulnerable habitats and communities.

    Am I the only one worried about this statement? It sounds like yet more sanctioned meddling by university types who have a little knowledge and big ideas.
    I don't have a problem with statement per se`, its the lack of detail .There are a lot of spaces were more trees could be grown in the countryside , the problem is the army of consultants , office monkeys and regulatory constraints involved that make it very frustrating .Similar is with hedgerow stonewall protects , everyone who has been involved in these schemes will feel they are treated like potential benefits cheats , more than half the financial budgets go on administration costs , which makes one wonder were is the inefficiency .


    Typical lack of detail here . https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...aval-rhtcktdl5#_=_
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  7. #37
    Senior Member b slicker's Avatar
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    I don't have a problem with statement per se`, its the lack of detail .There are a lot of spaces were more trees could be grown in the countryside , the problem is the army of consultants , office monkeys and regulatory constraints involved that make it very frustrating .Similar is with hedgerow stonewall protects , everyone who has been involved in these schemes will feel they are treated like potential benefits cheats , more than half the financial budgets go on administration costs , which makes one wonder were is the inefficiency .
    _
    Exactly. But surely it's up to the Farming Unions to stand up to the Government, the beaurocrats and the biased environmental lobby. But we won't be
    successful until the NFUs act together and search for and obtain street wise agitators to argue our case. Who can remember Clive Jenkins? Is Nigel Farage looking for a change of career?

    So lets first establish a British and Ulster NFU instead of the current situation of in-fighting between the various unions. One example is the Scottish NFU constantly
    arguing that Scottish agriculture is unique and has its own specific problems. It isn't and it doesn't.

  8. #38
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I seem to be hearing an awful lot of ducks of many varied colours farting under water just lately.
    Jack Caley
    That is a new one on me!

  9. #39
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Hmmmm
    NFU seem to have an obsession with making sure that all IAC's / SFP / forms are filled out correctly......Wake up and smell the Coffee.......the forms are the past!

  10. #40
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Makes you wonder if the Manchester thing will affect the election.
    Apparently the guy had just returned from indoctrination abroad.
    I am still convinced that immigration was the main reason people voted brexit.
    Maybe if we had had better border controls, Manchester would not have happened.
    Jack Caley

  11. #41
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Makes you wonder if the Manchester thing will affect the election.
    Apparently the guy had just returned from indoctrination abroad.
    I am still convinced that immigration was the main reason people voted brexit.
    Maybe if we had had better border controls, Manchester would not have happened.
    Jack Caley
    Didn't I see somewhere that he was born in England a couple of decades ago to a couple that immigrated from Lebanon?? London comes to mind?

  12. #42
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Didn't I see somewhere that he was born in England a couple of decades ago to a couple that immigrated from Lebanon?? London comes to mind?
    His parents are Lydian. Apparently his father is back in Lydia, but is also radical. They came some 20 odd years ago.
    My point is though that he only returned to England recently. Maybe better border controls would have picked him up.Jack Caley

  13. #43
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    His parents are Lydian. Apparently his father is back in Lydia, but is also radical. They came some 20 odd years ago.
    My point is though that he only returned to England recently. Maybe better border controls would have picked him up.Jack Caley
    He was a British citizen, born on the UK, how would border controls have prevented him from entering the country?

    his parents were anti Gadaffi activists, (remember, Gadaffi was the bad guy). Gadaffi, like many 'strong man' middle east leaders was secular, the Libyan opposition groups were Islamist. After Cameron and Sarcozy intervened in Libya and helped depose Gadaffi, we end up with a situation where islamist groups are fighting for control of Libya, which is essentially a failed state with two competing govts and no centralised control. It would appear that the Manchester bomber had been to Libya to fight with such a group and that's how he has been radicalised and recruited.

    FWIW there's actually a lot of truth in what Corbyn has said today, that meddling in such countries has strengthened islamic terrorism.

  14. #44
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    His parents are Lydian. Apparently his father is back in Lydia, but is also radical. They came some 20 odd years ago.
    My point is though that he only returned to England recently. Maybe better border controls would have picked him up.Jack Caley
    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    He was a British citizen, born on the UK, how would border controls have prevented him from entering the country?

    his parents were anti Gadaffi activists, (remember, Gadaffi was the bad guy). Gadaffi, like many 'strong man' middle east leaders was secular, the Libyan opposition groups were Islamist. After Cameron and Sarcozy intervened in Libya and helped depose Gadaffi, we end up with a situation where islamist groups are fighting for control of Libya, which is essentially a failed state with two competing govts and no centralised control. It would appear that the Manchester bomber had been to Libya to fight with such a group and that's how he has been radicalised and recruited.

    FWIW there's actually a lot of truth in what Corbyn has said today, that meddling in such countries has strengthened islamic terrorism.
    Some very basic logic here from stand up comedian Guz Khan.
    https://www.facebook.com/DoubleDownN...0030931749233/It is safe to say that what has happened in Libya is even worse than Iraq , IMO it would have happened without the West`s intervention at some point given the way that both their tyrannical leaders were treating their citizens ,and critically a lot of people who were loyal at one point. Because we intervened , its obvious we are going to be blamed and get caught up .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  15. #45
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    He was a British citizen, born on the UK, how would border controls have prevented him from entering the country?
    By stopping him coming back into the U.K. after his trips back to Libya and other places. He was on MI5's radar and we need to get serious about who can and can't just flip into and out of the U.K. We have been pussy-footing around for years.

    It took nearly a decade to kick Qatada out after he was visiting mosques and preaching hatred, even blocking streets in London with his rants. And will we kick Choudary out when he comes out of gaol ?

  16. #46
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    By stopping him coming back into the U.K. after his trips back to Libya and other places. He was on MI5's radar and we need to get serious about who can and can't just flip into and out of the U.K. We have been pussy-footing around for years.

    It took nearly a decade to kick Qatada out after he was visiting mosques and preaching hatred, even blocking streets in London with his rants. And will we kick Choudary out when he comes out of gaol ?
    He was a British citizen, and at the time he'd not been convicted of any crime. On what grounds do you propose he should have been denied entry to the country?

    MI5 have a pretty long list of potential suspects, and watching all of them is a mammoth task, the bomber was on an even longer list of former subjects of interest, it takes 30 officers to watch one suspect for 24 hours, there's a limit to what they can do in terms of surveillance.

    Apparently 18 attacks have been foiled since 2013, which suggests a certain amount of success from the security services current tactics. Ultimately you cannot predict what an individual might take it upon themselves to do, and there comes a point where no more can be done other than impose some sort of blanket removal of basic civil liberties from anyone within a very large and broadly defined social or religious group.

    Aside from the civil liberties and human rights implications involved with this, (and not to mention the practical and logistical problems), it's extremely likely that such an approach would turn out to be counter productive. If you start to identify large groups of people who might have an association with a particular minority ideology and persecute them as a result of this supposed association, you're driving people towards this ideology.

  17. #47
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    He was a British citizen, and at the time he'd not been convicted of any crime. On what grounds do you propose he should have been denied entry to the country? I don't know what grounds he could have been denied entry because he was not on my radar, he was on MI5's. There must have been reasons why he was. Were they monitoring his emails, Internet useage, tapping his 'phone calls ?

    MI5 have a pretty long list of potential suspects, and watching all of them is a mammoth task, the bomber was on an even longer list of former subjects of interest, it takes 30 officers to watch one suspect for 24 hours, REALLY ?? there's a limit to what they can do in terms of surveillance.

    Apparently 18 attacks have been foiled since 2013, so we are told which suggests a certain amount of success from the security services current tactics. Ultimately you cannot predict what an individual might take it upon themselves to do, and there comes a point where no more can be done other than impose some sort of blanket removal of basic civil liberties from anyone within a very large and broadly defined social or religious group.

    Aside from the civil liberties and human rights implications involved with this, (and not to mention the practical and logistical problems), it's extremely likely that such an approach would turn out to be counter productive. If you start to identify large groups of people who might have an association with a particular minority ideology and persecute them as a result of this supposed association, you're driving people towards this ideology.
    Any citizen is free to leave if they consider the U.K. an unsuitable place to live.

  18. #48
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Any citizen is free to leave if they consider the U.K. an unsuitable place to live.
    Problem is,because of our welfare system this is a suitable place to live,housing benefit paid,not in work benefits - and the devil makes work for idle hands.

  19. #49
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmjl View Post
    Problem is,because of our welfare system this is a suitable place to live,housing benefit paid,not in work benefits - and the devil makes work for idle hands.
    Is it not strange how events change the whole picture. Events you would never have dreamed of:
    1/general election result, although when she announced my first reaction was that voters nowadays can never be predicted,
    2/ Terrorist attacks,goes without saying they were going to provoke some madman like the guy from Cardiff, although they said it was a terrorist event, I regarded it as more of a reprisal.
    3/ The fire in London.
    Yesterday Teresa May said that we now have something like 3 million EU citizens in the UK.
    The population of this country has risen from something just over 50 million 50 years ago to something like 67 million or more now.How on earth was it to be expected to house all those people, especially in cut price housing, one of the most expensive property. Areas in the country.
    What with corrupt councillors and politicians running the job, what did they expect, especially when compassionately they keep on welcoming more immigrants.
    I am not being racist, just realist, that is how the world spins around.
    I despair of how things are working out, I am not even sure that Teresa is not fulfilling a Freudian wish.
    Jack Caley

  20. #50
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Jack, one of these days you are going to write something that I really disagree with but as far as I can remember you haven't managed it yet becauise I think exactly the same as you do.

    I tell all my friends that I am so glad that I am the age I am. My generation has seen the best days. The hardships of postwar Britain turned into the exciting 60s full of opportunity which you and I grabbed with both hands. But look at the young of today. Those that frequent forums such as this, i.e. I presume that most on here are hard working folk trying to get on in life but who haven't got the same chances that we have had. How the Hell are they going to afford to even buy a house ? I know there are exceptions and good luck and well done to those that do but by and large it is unattainable.

    And who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to house people in high rise tower blocks ? We can't (and don't want to) keep hens like that. Is it any wonder if there is social unrest ? A high dependence on alcohol and drugs was always going to happen helped along with a system of benefits that keeps those who can't or won't work mostly sub-servient.

    I often feel the need to apologise to all the younger generation of today. We (the generation of Jack & I) have screwed up. We are leaving you with a bloody mess that you don't deserve. I am genuinely sorry about that.

  21. #51
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    Jack, one of these days you are going to write something that I really disagree with but as far as I can remember you haven't managed it yet becauise I think exactly the same as you do.

    I tell all my friends that I am so glad that I am the age I am. My generation has seen the best days. The hardships of postwar Britain turned into the exciting 60s full of opportunity which you and I grabbed with both hands. But look at the young of today. Those that frequent forums such as this, i.e. I presume that most on here are hard working folk trying to get on in life but who haven't got the same chances that we have had. How the Hell are they going to afford to even buy a house ? I know there are exceptions and good luck and well done to those that do but by and large it is unattainable.

    And who in their right mind thought it was a good idea to house people in high rise tower blocks ? We can't (and don't want to) keep hens like that. Is it any wonder if there is social unrest ? A high dependence on alcohol and drugs was always going to happen helped along with a system of benefits that keeps those who can't or won't work mostly sub-servient.

    I often feel the need to apologise to all the younger generation of today. We (the generation of Jack & I) have screwed up. We are leaving you with a bloody mess that you don't deserve. I am genuinely sorry about that.
    I am not being racist either in what I say and try to be a realist and judging by previous posts by Jack and yourself, both of you have had a few more years experience in life than I have. I agree with a lot of what yous say too but the younger generation can blame the one before but do they learn from the mistakes made? No, they go ahead and keep making the same one again. It's hard to listen to the people on Question Time and other political programmes on TV calling for an end to austerity and that they would do this and that.........but where is the money going to come from? We used to hear years ago about the balance of payments deficit, is it that bad now that they don't mention it any more? We as a country need to make it attractive to work, not attractive to lie at home reaping all sorts of benefits and giving nothing for it. There are genuine cases who need the state support but it's too easy to bluff the system.

  22. #52
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    The problem today is that we have a generation or two who have grown up living on the 'never never' which, in their world means never paying it back,the parents have brought them up giving them everything they want, handed to them on the proverbial plate without having to lift a finger to earn it,there's no wonder they don't like austerity.

  23. #53
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    One thing I can never understand is why someone doesn't stand up and say that the U.K. national debt is approximately 1.666 trillion. That equates very approximately to 25,000 being owed by every man, woman, and child within it's borders. How the Hell is that going to get paid off ? Austerity has only really hurt the people at the sharp end of life. The nurses, the teachers, the people who work at the coal face of life.

    Some of the managers in this country I wouldn't pay in chocolate buttons, whether they work for large companies, councils, the police, in the health service, it is they who seem to think that they are entitled to exhorbitant salaries, excessive pensions, etc. but but who in reality couldn't "manage" the proverbial pee-up in a brewery. And what's with all this university crap ? How many thoroughly useless degrees are there ? As a gamekeeper friend of mine once said, you can probably get a degree in macrame nowadays.

    Most people are of the opinion that they are enitled to the easy life. No you're not, you should have to bloody work for it.

  24. #54
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I regarded it as more of a reprisal.
    He was a Welsh lunatic Terrorist , nothing less , calling it a reprisal can be justification for anyone to commit carnage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I am not being racist, just realist, that is how the world spins around.
    Jack Caley
    The reality is that nobody admits to being Racist , and its impossible to prove one isn't completely , it is for others to judge ,but the more one protests
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    For what it's worth, I offer this, as an outside observer:

    https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/navig...rick-wilkinson

    JV
    Agtronix - the home of the Weedswiper

  26. #56
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    Dead Ringers this week, seem to have a more accurate view of DD's negotiating skills

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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    although they said it was a terrorist event, I regarded it as more of a reprisal.
    Straight from page 1 of the terrorists recruiting manual. Well done.

    He indiscriminately killed and maimed people going about their lawful business. It was terrorism, end of.

  28. #58
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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Dead Ringers this week, seem to have a more accurate view of DD's negotiating skills



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08v8vgt#play

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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.


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    Re: General Election, and Brexit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Ha! Did I laugh out loud! I wonder how much time it took to replace the faces?

    How easy it is to produce fake news

    JV
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