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Thread: A few questions:

  1. #1
    Willscale
    Guest

    A few questions:

    I've been thinking about a few random things - maybe some of you can help answer:

    1. My 750 drill runs on a box drill with a separate grass seed box. Its fine but I'm fed up with it now and I think I'd like to put an air box seeder on it instead - just a bit more reliable for outside work. Is my best bet to try and get an accord seed box? Been suggested Andy Guest. Anyone else know of one or how much it may cost? Can anyone sell me one?

    2. I drill on 7.5" spacings. For SOSR do you think I should drop off a set of coulters and seed rape at 15" spacings? I did it at 7.5" last year for spring rape which was ok but I kind of like the idea of doing just half the disturbance again but not sure if considered too wide for spring? I should probably do this for WOSR by the sound of things.

    3. Finding after about 3 years grass weed pressure is getting a little bit lower - planning to try and drop off the roundup application between rape and wheat unless I'm trounced by meadowgrass which is less likely as time goes on and the seedbank gets a bit tired. What kind of tank mixes work well as contact herbicides on grassweeds if I go in with PDM and something else? Any experience of any specifically?

    4. Reading the FG this week about Attribut (propoxycarbazone-sodium). Do any of you boys find it has a good affect on bromes and couch grass? Wondering whether to think of finding a place for it to replace the roundup somewhere in the rotation. Just trying to think ahead on grassweed chemistry rotation.

  2. #2
    mbsrhol
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    If you take out half the coulters then there may be crabbing/wear issues?

    IMO keep using glyphosate, in the history of resistance contact graminicides feature quite highly and I feel it would be foolhardy to put more pressure on them. As for other glyphosate issues, there will be similar "problems" with other herbicides that we just don't know about because they aren't so controversial.

  3. #3
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    do you use use kerb or crawler? if so less grassweeds in rape stubbles- just blws. in which case my plan next year is to drill into this carpet and apply lexus to knock down the rape/blw's and give some pre em effect if it rains a lot, and on bare patches. not sure whether to keep with the roundup for desication or perhaps switch to glufosinate?

    i always thought meadow grass would be tricky after a few years- do your residuals still work well then will?

  4. #4
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by mbsrhol View Post
    If you take out half the coulters then there may be crabbing/wear issues?

    IMO keep using glyphosate, in the history of resistance contact graminicides feature quite highly and I feel it would be foolhardy to put more pressure on them. As for other glyphosate issues, there will be similar "problems" with other herbicides that we just don't know about because they aren't so controversial.
    Possibly a little extra wear - nothing significant I don't think.

    On resistance in contact graminicides specifically can you tell me how the pressure and resistance cycle works? Is it from repeated use, is it from the chemical not being man enough, is it from the allowing the plants too much strength etc? Contact graminicides don't tend to be used in annual repetition that much do they and do you think a no till rotation changes the rules a bit or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by shakerator View Post
    do you use use kerb or crawler? if so less grassweeds in rape stubbles- just blws. in which case my plan next year is to drill into this carpet and apply lexus to knock down the rape/blw's and give some pre em effect if it rains a lot, and on bare patches. not sure whether to keep with the roundup for desication or perhaps switch to glufosinate?

    i always thought meadow grass would be tricky after a few years- do your residuals still work well then will?
    Yes started using kerb. I know roundup resistance pressure is not as high as in GM crop rotations but its personally important for me to try and get dependence a bit down. This year I did drill rape into wheat stubble without roundup (it was windy for two weeks and I couldn't spray) and although the plants are all there it was swamped by meadowgrass for a while till kerb did its job. I have no resistance issues at all with anything though btw and all sprays remain effective.

    Just throwing ideas around really.

  5. #5
    mbsrhol
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    On resistance in contact graminicides specifically can you tell me how the pressure and resistance cycle works? Is it from repeated use, is it from the chemical not being man enough, is it from the allowing the plants too much strength etc? Contact graminicides don't tend to be used in annual repetition that much do they and do you think a no till rotation changes the rules a bit or not?
    You have just got to look at blackgrass control to see how control from selective herbicides diminishes over time and yet glyphosate still does a job on it. Quite often selective herbicides work on one aspect of the weeds metabolism (obviously unique to the weed as opposed to the crop plant). It only takes one gene to switch off, find an alternative pathway, or a multiplication of an enzyme gene that metabolises the active and you have resistance or at least tolerance.

    Keep the pressure off the selective herbicides and they will remain useful for longer.

  6. #6
    FarmerDan
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    This year I did drill rape into wheat stubble without roundup (it was windy for two weeks and I couldn't spray) and although the plants are all there it was swamped by meadowgrass for a while till kerb did its job.
    I've been wondering about this with no till... Sowing rape after wheat gives a very narrow window to create a stale seed bed.

    Is it better to just crack on and sow the rape and deal with volunteer cereals and grass weeds in the rape crop or are no tillers generally raking and using glyphosate pre drilling?

    On the same subject are there any historic threads on here dealing specifically with the topic of residual sprays and their effect on subsequent no-till crops. e.g. kerb on rape followed by wheat?

  7. #7
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by FarmerDan View Post
    I've been wondering about this with no till... Sowing rape after wheat gives a very narrow window to create a stale seed bed.

    Is it better to just crack on and sow the rape and deal with volunteer cereals and grass weeds in the rape crop or are no tillers generally raking and using glyphosate pre drilling?

    On the same subject are there any historic threads on here dealing specifically with the topic of residual sprays and their effect on subsequent no-till crops. e.g. kerb on rape followed by wheat?
    Kerb for wheat generally not seen as a big problem. I'd say most people would be raking and glyphosating pre drilling I put some winter wheat after spring rape which had about a two day break between harvest and seeding. I put down some glyphosate pre drilling and its as clean as a whistle ever since.

  8. #8
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    will

    does meadow grass compete aggressively with rape where you are? i guess it would have flowered and set seed last warm autumn. but perhaps managing it later with kerb ticks some no till boxes such as full ground cover, erosive protection etc? i do wonder if there is an alternative tactic to tillage for outfoxing meadow grass, a bit like how mulch impairs blackgrass emergence. with wheat obviously more of a problem, and competes for fert and moisture- but in a wet year (when no till "falls apart") im thinking we need something in a wheat crop from late july when its no longer drawing water. is meadow grass natures answer, to then be controlled later by diverse rotation?


    i think your point about gramincide and wide rotation is valid. just as resistance builds on fops/dims, i think susceptiblity returns after several years without application. if it were just cereals you were looking to do with a fp/dim instead of glypho- i would go ahead, as the genetics change with each variety you plant so resitance wont evolve.

  9. #9
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by shakerator View Post
    will

    does meadow grass compete aggressively with rape where you are? i guess it would have flowered and set seed last warm autumn. but perhaps managing it later with kerb ticks some no till boxes such as full ground cover, erosive protection etc? i do wonder if there is an alternative tactic to tillage for outfoxing meadow grass, a bit like how mulch impairs blackgrass emergence. with wheat obviously more of a problem, and competes for fert and moisture- but in a wet year (when no till "falls apart") im thinking we need something in a wheat crop from late july when its no longer drawing water. is meadow grass natures answer, to then be controlled later by diverse rotation?


    i think your point about gramincide and wide rotation is valid. just as resistance builds on fops/dims, i think susceptiblity returns after several years without application. if it were just cereals you were looking to do with a fp/dim instead of glypho- i would go ahead, as the genetics change with each variety you plant so resitance wont evolve.
    Ok meadow grass is worse in some fields than others. Remember I'm on fairly light land, its damp and this is king grass growing country. Elmsted used to say "its only a bit of meadow grass don't worry about it" but in my situation it can get a bit much. But I do think over time you can tire it out a bit and reduce the burden.

  10. #10
    Bog Man
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    I have problems with Annual meadow grass in spring barley in wet years . When I was ploughing it was a problem and since I have gone to min till I use Stomp Aqua pre emerge .https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...RekUhJpFki-F1A. It is supposed to not effect yield but it makes it hard to harvest . It works well keeping Annual Meadow grass at bay but not so strong on other weeds .
    We used to have problems with meadow grass in Sugar Beet but it was amazing how Betanal used control it when hit early post emergence .
    Our Winter rape sown with a Sumo after pre Harvest Round up was sprayed with Fusilade and no other Herbicide .

  11. #11
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: A few questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bog Man View Post
    I have problems with Annual meadow grass in spring barley in wet years . When I was ploughing it was a problem and since I have gone to min till I use Stomp Aqua pre emerge .https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...RekUhJpFki-F1A. It is supposed to not effect yield but it makes it hard to harvest . It works well keeping Annual Meadow grass at bay but not so strong on other weeds .
    We used to have problems with meadow grass in Sugar Beet but it was amazing how Betanal used control it when hit early post emergence .
    Our Winter rape sown with a Sumo after pre Harvest Round up was sprayed with Fusilade and no other Herbicide .
    Yes I like a bit of PDM but slightly discouraged with too much spring usage in no till but depends on next crop.

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