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Thread: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understands

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    Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understands

    The news headlines today say subsidies will have to be earned rather than just given.
    This sort of headline is a reflection, in my opinion, of years of misunderstanding of the evolution of subsidies, and their purpose.
    I was never happy when subsidies were changed from production related, to be given out willynilly to all and sundry including large landowners, who should not have needed them anyway. This has resulted in the distortion of the farming structure anyway.
    Years of adverse publicity, (featherbedded farmers?), are now taking their toll. The instrument of this reformist the Torres , who have never been good for the farming industry, somewhat ironic.
    I have always hated subsidies , but when I look back over my long lifetime, since the 1947 act , done under Labour, and see what that investment in agriculture has achieved, I am proud of the farming industry, and its achievements.
    In spite of all that government support, and maybe because of it, the farming industry is not rolling in riches. I met two farming brothers yesterday, who admitted if they farmed for the money, they would have sold up long ago. They enjoyed the privilege of living where they do, and the satisfaction of actually producing something tangible with their life. Otherwise they would be far better off selling up and emigrating to the sun.

    EDIT,
    What I was going to say before this post somehow posted itself was that I am not all that impressed with Michael Gove.
    I think also that this outcome will put the UKfarming industry at a disadvantage with the European industry, and the outcome over a number of years will be the inevitable decline of the British farming industry , just the same as after the repeal of the Corn Laws.
    Last edited by Jack_Caley; 21-07-17 at 12:25 PM. Reason: Completion

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    This is the problem with the way our governmental system works as a whole. It's symptomatic of a system with your mates/close allies are put into roles in which they have no expertise.

    In the last few years, Gove has been head of Education, the judiciary and now the environment. I'm assuming he must be a somewhat clever bloke academically - looking at his educational history - but, he must be one of the brightest men of our time if he has expertise in all those areas all from his English degree.

    Get someone who actually understands our needs, or is at least willing to, and we might see some positive change. This could probably be said for a number of government positions though.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Jack - you can be sure that any changes have been lobbied for by the new "aristocracy", the global corporations who syphon all their profits to offshore tax havens.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    I don't think it matters who the puppet at the top of the pile in any cabinet office is because as we see here in NI, it's the top civil servants who make the decisions and the puppets are being handled to sign off on it as elected representatives.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    An interesting read. http://www.jayrayner.co.uk/news/mich...ce-of-my-mind/ Whether you agree with this view or not at least Jay Raynor is at least addressing the subject with some detail and not being anti farming.
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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Jack - you can be sure that any changes have been lobbied for by the new "aristocracy", the global corporations who syphon all their profits to offshore tax havens.
    The real lobbyists on the subsidy front will not these global corporations, they are only concerned with free trade across the world and cheap product.
    The real lobbyists are the green groups and other so called, environmentally friendly groups who see that they can get their hands on a very large pot of cash before it is swallowed by the NHS.
    These groups will include every wildlife trust, the National Trust, the Forestry Commission etc. etc. They have long lobbied hard and strong to get their hands in the pot and only the EU has stopped them taking this years ago.
    It is going to be open war on farming from them now.
    Ixworth Solar Farming Ltd.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    An interesting read. http://www.jayrayner.co.uk/news/mich...ce-of-my-mind/ Whether you agree with this view or not at least Jay Raynor is at least addressing the subject with some detail and not being anti farming.
    A very interesting article. Quite a lot of what Rayner said, I fully agree with, especially that about the power of the supermarkets, and their influence in the ever decreasing commodity prices in real terms.
    their influence has led to to more imported food, for example the pigmeat imported to Cranswick Foods sausage factory near here.
    The problem with the whole Brexit scenario, is modern day politics where egos and personalities play out their childish games of personal ambition, instead of personal service.
    If Rayner had had any personal integrity , he would have met with Gove and told him exactly what he thought, instead he rants off on his own website, showing a weakness in his own principles.
    One of the things I find frustrating is that we seem to have to sit by and watch things unfold, led by people who have no real understanding of the real world that for instance the members of this forum have to face in their everyday lives.
    At one time many years ago membership of the NFU did pose some sort of a way forward. Now it it is totally ineffectual, the real power lies in the hands of overpaid journalists in the BBC, and useless politicians who learnt politics at some university or other.. I saw a guys CV the other day, he said he was educated at the University of life, we need more of them!
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Exfarmer View Post
    The real lobbyists on the subsidy front will not these global corporations, they are only concerned with free trade across the world and cheap product.
    The real lobbyists are the green groups and other so called, environmentally friendly groups who see that they can get their hands on a very large pot of cash before it is swallowed by the NHS.
    These groups will include every wildlife trust, the National Trust, the Forestry Commission etc. etc. They have long lobbied hard and strong to get their hands in the pot and only the EU has stopped them taking this years ago.
    It is going to be open war on farming from them now.
    HERE HERE!!!
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    I think the problem is that as a country we have lost our way in life. 60 years ago U.K. agriculture was populated mostly by family farms who, with the aid of the guaranteed payment system for most commodities, meant that modest farming businesses could earn a reasonable living and the man on the Clapham omnibus had a supply of food that he could afford. One benefit of a system that allowed people who worked the land in that capacity was that, by and large, the environment was cared for as well.

    But then came what I call the agricultural revolution. We gained access to a plethora of chemicals that enabled monoculture, this in turn spawned people who realised that they could farm vast acreages with ever increasing sized machines and less labour. And things were done that should not have been done which in turn made the public sceptical of farmers. Burning straw was a very visible trait, but there were others. And we started to get the lobby groups that we see today because they thought that farmers were raping the countryside. They set themselves up as the protectors of the birds & bees and everything else that walks or flies and Joe Public feels good about subscribing financially to these groups so they now have vast funds at their disposal. This in turn allows them to pay salaries to people who will promote their agendas.

    Those of us who live and work in the countryside know that things aren't how they use to be environmental-wise. You can get extra money now for not cutting a hedge for x years and then you can batter the guts out of it. What sort of a message does that convey to the observer ? And more money is available for allowing field margins to look awful and again, Joe Public sees this and is told that "the farmer" gets paid for leaving it like that.

    We had a pack of hounds around where I am which was disbanded many years ago. Yes, some of it was a bit cruel but our lot never killed much but they kept charlie on the run. And the billys as well. Now both can hunt to their leisure. I used to set snares and catch charlies and the ocassional billy. It's not illegal but where would I be if someone found a billy in a necklace that I had put down ? I found 3 dead hedgehogs over the course of a couple of months in a 6 acre grass field this spring. No chemicals anywhere near the place. Why did they die ? Why, when we see hen pheasants bring their chicks to the bird feeders in early summer, do they diminish in numbers until they are all gone ? Because the balance of nature has been disrupted and man is partly the reason for that,

    But back to today. I have been watching the benefits programmes on TV. I am amazed at the lives that some people lead. Food is not important to a lot of people. I honestly feel that even if good food was free they would still eat junk food. The "boil in the bag" and "ready meal" means that they can be on their iPhones, iPads, gaming or down the pub in next to no time. Cooking a decent meal wastes their time and the multi-nationals know that.

    Most people who are alive in the U.K. today have never been hungry.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    I think the problem is that as a country we have lost our way in life. 60 years ago U.K. agriculture was populated mostly by family farms who, with the aid of the guaranteed payment system for most commodities, meant that modest farming businesses could earn a reasonable living and the man on the Clapham omnibus had a supply of food that he could afford. One benefit of a system that allowed people who worked the land in that capacity was that, by and large, the environment was cared for as well.

    But then came what I call the agricultural revolution. We gained access to a plethora of chemicals that enabled monoculture, this in turn spawned people who realised that they could farm vast acreages with ever increasing sized machines and less labour. And things were done that should not have been done which in turn made the public sceptical of farmers. Burning straw was a very visible trait, but there were others. And we started to get the lobby groups that we see today because they thought that farmers were raping the countryside. They set themselves up as the protectors of the birds & bees and everything else that walks or flies and Joe Public feels good about subscribing financially to these groups so they now have vast funds at their disposal. This in turn allows them to pay salaries to people who will promote their agendas.

    Those of us who live and work in the countryside know that things aren't how they use to be environmental-wise. You can get extra money now for not cutting a hedge for x years and then you can batter the guts out of it. What sort of a message does that convey to the observer ? And more money is available for allowing field margins to look awful and again, Joe Public sees this and is told that "the farmer" gets paid for leaving it like that.

    We had a pack of hounds around where I am which was disbanded many years ago. Yes, some of it was a bit cruel but our lot never killed much but they kept charlie on the run. And the billys as well. Now both can hunt to their leisure. I used to set snares and catch charlies and the ocassional billy. It's not illegal but where would I be if someone found a billy in a necklace that I had put down ? I found 3 dead hedgehogs over the course of a couple of months in a 6 acre grass field this spring. No chemicals anywhere near the place. Why did they die ? Why, when we see hen pheasants bring their chicks to the bird feeders in early summer, do they diminish in numbers until they are all gone ? Because the balance of nature has been disrupted and man is partly the reason for that,

    But back to today. I have been watching the benefits programmes on TV. I am amazed at the lives that some people lead. Food is not important to a lot of people. I honestly feel that even if good food was free they would still eat junk food. The "boil in the bag" and "ready meal" means that they can be on their iPhones, iPads, gaming or down the pub in next to no time. Cooking a decent meal wastes their time and the multi-nationals know that.

    Most people who are alive in the U.K. today have never been hungry.
    I listened this morning to Farming Today. There was a man from Friends of the Earth. He really slated the image of farmers, regrettably we can expect no more after 50 years of criticism of featherbedded farmers.
    It was not just a plethora of chemicals that caused monoculture, it was a reaction to ever decreasing commodity prices. Just read Jay Werners piece on supermarkets! Just like the tower block in London, when there is financial pressure applied, corners are cut , result, disaster.
    On the subject of falling commodity prices, I bought a Ford 5000 for 30 tonnes of barley, new!
    A similar sized tractor today is 400 tonnes of barley.
    The farming industry has done a magnificent job, with the help of government support in coping with FALLING COMMODITY PRICES< (EDIT) albeit with an awful loss of jobs.

    JackCaley
    Last edited by Jack_Caley; 24-07-17 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Missed words

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulscots View Post
    I don't think it matters who the puppet at the top of the pile in any cabinet office is because as we see here in NI, it's the top civil servants who make the decisions and the puppets are being handled to sign off on it as elected representatives.
    I mean, that is completely ignoring the unique nature of the NI system. The UK government does not operate in the same way.

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Gyles View Post
    I mean, that is completely ignoring the unique nature of the NI system. The UK government does not operate in the same way.
    The special nature of NI's circumstances are that we used to be terrorised by bullets and bombs by faceless people..........now we're terrorised by their faces on TV. 😂😂😂😉😉😉

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulscots View Post
    The special nature of NI's circumstances are that we used to be terrorised by bullets and bombs by faceless people..........now we're terrorised by their faces on TV. 😂😂😂😉😉😉
    Bit of Black humour......I remember seeing a hand painted sign in some woodland adjacent to a road on the North Antrim coast.....similar to the "Mud on Road" ones that appear.


    "NO SHOOTING BY ORDER"

    Given the past history!

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    Re: Brexit and Subsidies Earned????I do not believe that Michael Gove really understa

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Bit of Black humour......I remember seeing a hand painted sign in some woodland adjacent to a road on the North Antrim coast.....similar to the "Mud on Road" ones that appear.


    "NO SHOOTING BY ORDER"

    Given the past history!
    Sure there was "NO SHOOTING BY ORDER" FOR YEARS! They were shooting to order!
    🤔🤔🤔

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