Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 42

Thread: What can we argue about?

  1. #1
    Willscale
    Guest

    What can we argue about?

    I like coming in for a cup of tea and seeing the latest argument.

    Any ideas on what we can argue about next or are all direct drillers happy with everything?

    All no till crops look pretty good and clean with me at the moment (agronomist can't believe there's no need to spray no till WOSR and WW much. The only thing I'm wondering about is one variety of Wheat (Panorama) looks very leggy and doesn't seem to be interested in tillering

  2. #2
    agricontract
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Is claydon really direct drilling ? :lolk: mines coming today but going to run it along side the Moore

  3. #3
    fred
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Do you genuinely believe no till low disturbance direct drilling can reduce black grass burdens,

  4. #4
    The ruminant
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    or:
    cutting a slot to drill a seed is overkill when a hole will do

  5. #5
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by agricontract View Post
    Is claydon really direct drilling ? :lolk: mines coming today but going to run it along side the Moore
    Yes definitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by fred View Post
    Do you genuinely believe no till low disturbance direct drilling can reduce black grass burdens,
    I think so but not at the expense of herbicide and crop rotation.


    Quote Originally Posted by The ruminant View Post
    or:
    cutting a slot to drill a seed is overkill when a hole will do
    Yes but technologically more complex to achieve cheaply. Shouldn't we really be mixing up our seeds as seedballs and chucking them on the ground instead?


    Happy now

  6. #6
    pig fighter
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    My foray into DD would be replacing a plough contractor with a DD contractor. But I can't make the numbers work based on what folk are talking about for contract drilling (Claydon/Mzuri type). So my argument is why do we read over and over again about the huge savings in running these drills whilst contractors seem unable to pass any of that on? Are they cashing in instead of trying to make an honest living whilst also spreading the DD gospel or are these machines genuinely bloody expensive to run? Today on harvested swede land I can have someone drag a plough along at 14 or a one pass drill at 21....yes I know thw plough still has to be drilled but that's not the point I am making.

  7. #7
    Clive
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I like coming in for a cup of tea and seeing the latest argument.

    Any ideas on what we can argue about next or are all direct drillers happy with everything?

    All no till crops look pretty good and clean with me at the moment (agronomist can't believe there's no need to spray no till WOSR and WW much. The only thing I'm wondering about is one variety of Wheat (Panorama) looks very leggy and doesn't seem to be interested in tillering
    how much carbon did it take to make that cup of Tea !

    some people have no respect for the environment - why drink tea when water is a natural product that will be better for the friendly bacteria within your gut

    Tea drinking is not sustainable

    Maybe someone can invent a machine that makes water taste a bit more like tea ?

  8. #8
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    My foray into DD would be replacing a plough contractor with a DD contractor. But I can't make the numbers work based on what folk are talking about for contract drilling (Claydon/Mzuri type). So my argument is why do we read over and over again about the huge savings in running these drills whilst contractors seem unable to pass any of that on? Are they cashing in instead of trying to make an honest living whilst also spreading the DD gospel or are these machines genuinely bloody expensive to run? Today on harvested swede land I can have someone drag a plough along at 14 or a one pass drill at 21....yes I know thw plough still has to be drilled but that's not the point I am making.
    I won't drill for less than 23 acre including fuel. Drill is cheap enough to run but it does need looking after to create reliability and consistency. But you don't need to do anything else before or after drill - apart from spraying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clive View Post
    how much carbon did it take to make that cup of Tea !

    some people have no respect for the environment - why drink tea when water is a natural product that will be better for the friendly bacteria within your gut

    Tea drinking is not sustainable

    Maybe someone can invent a machine that makes water taste a bit more like tea ?
    The best way to ensure the sustainability of a resource is to utilise it. So if we all didn't drink the aforementioned tea then there would be no market for it and instead of worrying about the sustainability of tea we'd be worrying about the possible extinction of the tea because it would be of no use to us.

    And I've been f*****g dumped today too

  9. #9
    pig fighter
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I won't drill for less than 23 acre including fuel. Drill is cheap enough to run but it does need looking after to create reliability and consistency. But you don't need to do anything else before or after drill - apart from spraying.


    For me this is a huge stumbling block to having a go. I only want to do it to have a share in the potential savings, after all it is me who is taking all the potential risks. Needless to say a plough will turn up next day or two.!

  10. #10
    The ruminant
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    My foray into DD would be replacing a plough contractor with a DD contractor. But I can't make the numbers work based on what folk are talking about for contract drilling (Claydon/Mzuri type). So my argument is why do we read over and over again about the huge savings in running these drills whilst contractors seem unable to pass any of that on? Are they cashing in instead of trying to make an honest living whilst also spreading the DD gospel or are these machines genuinely bloody expensive to run? Today on harvested swede land I can have someone drag a plough along at 14 or a one pass drill at 21....yes I know thw plough still has to be drilled but that's not the point I am making.
    Can you really get a contractor in to plough at 14/acre?

  11. #11
    pig fighter
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by The ruminant View Post
    Can you really get a contractor in to plough at 14/acre?
    That's the rate....whole farm not individual fields.

  12. #12
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    For me this is a huge stumbling block to having a go. I only want to do it to have a share in the potential savings, after all it is me who is taking all the potential risks. Needless to say a plough will turn up next day or two.!
    Maybe, but sooner or later if you want to do this you are going to have to take a risk and a leap of faith somewhere along the line. Naturally you are keen to minimise this risk but equally you will make a few cock ups as well - guaranteed. We all have done. One year I had 1 tonne acre of DD Spring Wheat - my own fault of course but still made a profit and vowed not to make the same mistake again - can't do much else.

    So you have to ask yourself do you really want to establish crops like this or not? If the answer is yes then you find what you once percieved as a risk becomes a little more normalised over time with experience.

    I'm seeing savings everywhere and see more potential yet.

  13. #13
    marco
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    My foray into DD would be replacing a plough contractor with a DD contractor. But I can't make the numbers work based on what folk are talking about for contract drilling (Claydon/Mzuri type). So my argument is why do we read over and over again about the huge savings in running these drills whilst contractors seem unable to pass any of that on? Are they cashing in instead of trying to make an honest living whilst also spreading the DD gospel or are these machines genuinely bloody expensive to run? Today on harvested swede land I can have someone drag a plough along at 14 or a one pass drill at 21....yes I know thw plough still has to be drilled but that's not the point I am making.
    what you have is a fear of failure, but actually what you have is a huge asset with all the slurry you have. would you have any interest in starting one field?

    maybe if you could split the tramlines when spreading slurry? How long do you think your contractor can stay going @14 an acre. out of interest how much is a pass of a normal drill?
    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    For me this is a huge stumbling block to having a go. I only want to do it to have a share in the potential savings, after all it is me who is taking all the potential risks. Needless to say a plough will turn up next day or two.!
    you could always get an old moore or athcinson drill for a few grand and give that field a go, you know, the one out the back that the guys can't see off the road.

    you obviously have an interest as you keep coming back to post it can't be done

  14. #14
    maxxum 125
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    That's the rate....whole farm not individual fields.
    think i could cry 14 pounds an acre !!! cant balme you for not seeing the DD argument at those rates dare i ask how much drilling is ?

  15. #15
    martian
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    It's a weird business. We sidled into direct drilling with an eye on the savings and the mystical side of it crept up on us. You kind of don't want to bang on about it too much to people, they back away like you're a Jehovah's Witness or something.

    But, for me the appeal is the feeling that you are heading towards proper farming, working with what our friends on the far bank of the pond call Mother Nature, rather than agin her. Putting something back into the soil other than P&K in a bag, changing the rotation so that we don't need to douse the crops with poisons and learning from our many mistakes. Taking a bit of ownership of the job away from agronomists and magic bullet salesman.

    Listening to Neil Dennis and Greg Simmonds at the Ruminant's place on Monday was another quasi-religious moment. Here is a guy (Neil) who faced with bankruptcy sold all his machinery and armed with a few reels of electric fence and a quad, mob stocked his land into fertility and profit. The counter intuitive thing he did was to get the cattle to tread half the forage he grew into the ground, feeding the bugs and worms, encouraging the plants to root ever deeper and grow ever bigger, such that he now has three times more stock per acre than his neighbours and far more wildlife etc, still with no inputs bar 8 inches of rain a year and some sunlight.

    I'd like to get to the cropping version of his farm, growing crops to feed the soil and bugs, making natural fertiliser and pesticides. You've got to have a dream...
    Sorry to hear of your dumping, Will. Bummer

  16. #16
    shakerator
    Guest

    Talking Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    I like coming in for a cup of tea and seeing the latest argument.

    Any ideas on what we can argue about next or are all direct drillers happy with everything?

    All no till crops look pretty good and clean with me at the moment (agronomist can't believe there's no need to spray no till WOSR and WW much. The only thing I'm wondering about is one variety of Wheat (Panorama) looks very leggy and doesn't seem to be interested in tillering

    im worried about slugs getting my spring beans before they come up. wish id waited till next week to drill them now (less slotting) so no argument/ no till bashing until any damage confirmed, then it will be no till's fault and not my lack of patience

  17. #17
    foxbox
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    My foray into DD would be replacing a plough contractor with a DD contractor. But I can't make the numbers work based on what folk are talking about for contract drilling (Claydon/Mzuri type). So my argument is why do we read over and over again about the huge savings in running these drills whilst contractors seem unable to pass any of that on? Are they cashing in instead of trying to make an honest living whilst also spreading the DD gospel or are these machines genuinely bloody expensive to run? Today on harvested swede land I can have someone drag a plough along at 14 or a one pass drill at 21....yes I know thw plough still has to be drilled but that's not the point I am making.
    Really, 14 an acre?! Let them get on with it at that sort of money, our local contractor won't put the plough in the field for less the cost of the Claydon (20 per acre) and we still need a press pass followed by the drill. The costs have to stack up though like you say and at the price above they probably don't.

  18. #18
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    We establish crops for various clients and our charges work out at 20/acre direct-drill (inc pass with the sprayer) 50/acre min-till (50% deep loosened inc pass with sprayer to clean stale seedbed) and 70/acre ploughed...last year top yielding crop was......direct-drilled

  19. #19
    JD_Kid
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    i kinda wonder why the livestock guys get forgotten .. after all they are not needing to rase soil C levels all ready have free muck and in 99% of the time it's spread for nothing ... lack of weeds due to seedhead eaten or silaged

    already have the stock to eat fodder crops and stock mangerment

    but they are not going out and going to buy a clayton 750 cross slot etc etc etc mud's new drill looks OK and there is the T boot drills etc

    so are the DD builders makeing the cropping drills to flast to do a simple job just due to know the cropping boys have low blood iron and just buy must haves a 300+ Hp tractor to pull a small drill ?????? realy it should pulling 10 meters +

    if the govt was right on the ball about lowering carbon etc and seeing they call the shots with the payment what would happen if cropping was only alowed on the same ground 1 year in 3

  20. #20
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Kid View Post
    if the govt was right on the ball about lowering carbon etc and seeing they call the shots with the payment what would happen if cropping was only alowed on the same ground 1 year in 3

    Lowering Carbon and being seen to lower carbon are different things.

  21. #21
    pig fighter
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by marco View Post
    what you have is a fear of failure, but actually what you have is a huge asset with all the slurry you have. would you have any interest in starting one field?

    maybe if you could split the tramlines when spreading slurry? How long do you think your contractor can stay going @14 an acre. out of interest how much is a pass of a normal drill?


    you could always get an old moore or athcinson drill for a few grand and give that field a go, you know, the one out the back that the guys can't see off the road.

    you obviously have an interest as you keep coming back to post it can't be done
    Yes marco it would be logical to perhaps try one field to start with but the only real value of a change is a whole farm approach .....not really interested in messing around with an opportunistic approach in some years on some soils and some crops.
    Yeah do keep coming back and asking . I think the forum would be better if things like Will's 23 per acre to run the drill and his 1 tonne per acre wheat crop were dicussed more along side all the success stories.
    Back to the high DD contract charge I;m not sure what a contractor would charge for Vaddy or combi because I don't use a contractor for that part of the system but I would guess 12 per acre.....I wouldn't pay any more.

  22. #22
    marco
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    well i just sprayed off what was left of a winter barley crop yesterday due to poor straw management and slot closure. finished putting a set of guttlers on my 750 today. My aim is not necessarily lowest cost of establishment, but there are more benifits, less weed pressure, less picking stones. But i'm only starting out.

    I don't know how many acres you farm but you should be able to put one field permently in dd? Also timeliness is an advantage, forcaste says it's going to rain tomorrow it's easy to get out and get the field sown, rather than ploughing leveling and sowing.

  23. #23
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by pig fighter View Post
    Yes marco it would be logical to perhaps try one field to start with but the only real value of a change is a whole farm approach .....not really interested in messing around with an opportunistic approach in some years on some soils and some crops.
    Yeah do keep coming back and asking . I think the forum would be better if things like Will's 23 per acre to run the drill and his 1 tonne per acre wheat crop were dicussed more along side all the success stories.
    Back to the high DD contract charge I;m not sure what a contractor would charge for Vaddy or combi because I don't use a contractor for that part of the system but I would guess 12 per acre.....I wouldn't pay any more.
    Sure no problem.

    Other cock ups include Lupins which I failed to harvest, Spring wheat that I sprayed after with roundup/pdm mix and i didn't close the slot well enough and it rained straight after, second wheats and sometimes stubble turnips have been a bit dissapointing. Also direct drilled some barley for my neighbour once into rock solid hammered ground and he ploughed it up after about three weeks. I could shrug my shoulders and I say it doesn't work but had still seen enough to work on the potential, besides I was young and stubborn and my father wanted me to quit.

    But in each of those occassions there is a reason that is beyond chance, about why it went wrong. I don't mind getting a few things wrong each year for how else am I going to try new ideas out?

    Drill Maintenance and building a good soil are the main ones I think.

    There's no point me charging less than 23acre and even then I don't really do much contracting as people expect wonders and it doesn't really work like that. 12 acre? - Leave them carry on. If someone said to you that if you planned for the longer term that you can establish crops for 23 acre - no tilling, ploughing, rolling etc I'd have thought that'd look ok on the farm budget no? 50 acre fields could alter the maths of course but 7acre ones don't!

  24. #24
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by marco View Post
    well i just sprayed off what was left of a winter barley crop yesterday due to poor straw management and slot closure. finished putting a set of guttlers on my 750 today. My aim is not necessarily lowest cost of establishment, but there are more benifits, less weed pressure, less picking stones. But i'm only starting out.
    Are your discs and boots good enough Marco? And have you checked the middle hole for rocking?

  25. #25
    marco
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Are your discs and boots good enough Marco? And have you checked the middle hole for rocking?
    william old bean, disks and boots brand new(cha ching) and there is a little play in the center hole but not too bad.

  26. #26
    Shutesy
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    And I've been f*****g dumped today too
    Sorry to hear that Will, going through similar situation myself atm and it sucks massively. Women can make things like farming or DD seem like a walk in the park!

  27. #27
    Willscale
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shutesy View Post
    Sorry to hear that Will, going through similar situation myself atm and it sucks massively. Women can make things like farming or DD seem like a walk in the park!
    But Shutesy, you're young and still have your swarthy good looks, plenty of time for you yet!

  28. #28
    Tim Fr
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willscale View Post
    Other cock ups include Lupins which I failed to harvest,
    failed to harvest my lupins too, they were ploughed!!!

  29. #29
    martian
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Well, I don't think much of this argument. I threw done the gauntlet last night, and everyone skirted round it like an embarrassing pile of sick at a teenage party. The question is: 'Is direct drilling a religion?'

    If it is, I think we need to design some robes for the High Priests before the open day. Any thoughts?

  30. #30
    peasantman
    Guest

    Re: What can we argue about?

    Quote Originally Posted by martian View Post
    Well, I don't think much of this argument. I threw done the gauntlet last night, and everyone skirted round it like an embarrassing pile of sick at a teenage party. The question is: 'Is direct drilling a religion?'

    If it is, I think we need to design some robes for the High Priests before the open day. Any thoughts?
    I would say the plough is more of a religion than DD.
    "We plough the fields and scatter..."

    No DD is most definitely a science, but a novel one.

    Still plenty of flat earthers around though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •