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Thread: Brexit, yes or no?

  1. #121
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Jack, the reason you are having trouble finding WTO tariffs is the WTO doesn't charge tariffs.

    Selected text from the WTO website: https://www.wto.org/

    "The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only global international organization dealing with the rules of trade between nations. At its heart are the WTO agreements, negotiated and signed by the bulk of the world’s trading nations and ratified in their parliaments. The goal is to ensure that trade flows as smoothly, predictably and freely as possible."

    "The WTO has many roles: it operates a global system of trade rules, it acts as a forum for negotiating trade agreements, its settles trade disputes between its members and it supports the needs of developing countries."

    "The primary purpose of the WTO is to open trade for the benefit of all."

    "The WTO has over 160 members representing 98 per cent of world trade. Over 20 countries are seeking to join the WTO."

    "The WTO derives most of the income for its annual budget from contributions by its members. These contributions are based on a formula that takes into account each member's share of international trade."
    Thank you, so presumably the tariff I am having to pay is EU tariff?

    Jack Caley

  2. #122
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    Thank you, so presumably the tariff I am having to pay is EU tariff?

    Jack Caley
    The tariff would be either EU or British.

  3. #123
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    if you mean World Trade Organization (WTO) they do not import or export duties or tarrifs on trade between countries - the "duties" Jack mentions would be a combination of EU / British import duties AND "paper work" charges by the shipper.

    I have run into this "paper work" charge many times when importing things into Canada from the US.
    Apologies, I was being mischievously ironic with my reply . Fair play to you though with your excellent explanation of how the World Trade Organization operates.



    When something on ebay has an inflated price like that there is no way it is down to any tax or tariff .
    It could simply be its out stock and they are avoiding having to relist it with a financial cost or losing people who have it on their watch list as is common with spare parts.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41859691
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  4. #124
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    so we have lost yet another Brexiteers from the cabinet!
    Seems a shame, we shall have to see who is appointed in her place.
    This whole totally unneccessary business of leaving the EU gets more and more difficult every day. If the stubborn EU lot had only given Cameron some space, we would not be here.
    It does make you wonder at the Freudian aspect of yet another loss of a Brexiteer from the cabinet.
    Wish they would get on with it.

    Jack Caley

  5. #125
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Just as a bit of light relief, Neil Oliver, archaeologist and historian, and new chairman of the National Trust (?) has described Alex Salmond as:

    A round wrecking ball of a man - shaped only to do damage.

  6. #126
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Jack. I used to think that Cameron was a half decent bloke but I now think that he couldn't negotiate his way onto an empty bus. I currently think that the PM is a thoroughly decent human being but I doubt if she is strong enough for the task ahead. I hope she proves me wrong.

  7. #127
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Went to meeting Wednesday night.
    A sheep farmer and his wife and son spoke.
    His wife said NZ lamb was more expensive in NZ than here. Food is very dear there.
    This morning on farming programme they confirmed there is no tariff on 200000 tonnes NZ lamb.
    At least that's one thing that can,t get cheaper!
    Jack Caley

  8. #128
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    My name is Anouk, I am a highschool student in Amsterdam, and grand-daughter of a Herefordshire farmer. I am working on an economics project about UK farmers and Brexit. I really need UK farmers' help to collect some basic data, to complete my project. Thank you, for taking the time to help me with a very short survey. All responses are anonymous and will only be used by me in my school project and will be deleted after analysis.
    At the end of the survey this software will ask for your e-mail, please do not fill in. Thank you.
    Please click on the link below:
    https://nl.surveymonkey.com/r/5FGJ9HL

  9. #129
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Anybody listening to Owen Patterson this morning should be worried, kept going on about the advantages of no customs union etc and listed his perceived areas that would be better, second on the list was "cheap food". Now how is that sitting with UK farmers and the standards we have to compete and produce by.

    Always thought this would be the Brexit choice and still do, we will be sacrificed as the freeby with any negotiated trade deal.

  10. #130
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Anybody listening to Owen Patterson this morning should be worried, kept going on about the advantages of no customs union etc and listed his perceived areas that would be better, second on the list was "cheap food". Now how is that sitting with UK farmers and the standards we have to compete and produce by.

    Always thought this would be the Brexit choice and still do, we will be sacrificed as the freeby with any negotiated trade deal.
    Could his REAL point be "No . . . Union"?

  11. #131
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    The turn of events in the Brexit saga worries me!!!!
    We are going to finish up with the worst of all worlds!
    I watched a bit of the live coverage of BBC Parliament yesterday afternoon, it was mostly Labour MP,s , but the amount of ignorance of all MP,s worries me. They rattle on about trade deals, democracy , workers rights, you name it but very few of them know anything about the real world!
    I am sad to say also that Dominic Greaves mother was a local Yorkshire woman. I met her once a long while ago and was horrified at London establishment air of unreality!
    It begins to look like the establishment is going to ignore the will of the people by devious means, and we will finish up with the worst of all worlds.
    I believe if we had another referendum the vote would be 70/30 for out, in view of the fact that all the EU wants is our money and to further cripple our industry the same way it has done Italys.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    The turn of events in the Brexit saga worries me!!!!
    We are going to finish up with the worst of all worlds!
    I watched a bit of the live coverage of BBC Parliament yesterday afternoon, it was mostly Labour MP,s , but the amount of ignorance of all MP,s worries me. They rattle on about trade deals, democracy , workers rights, you name it but very few of them know anything about the real world!
    I am sad to say also that Dominic Greaves mother was a local Yorkshire woman. I met her once a long while ago and was horrified at London establishment air of unreality!
    It begins to look like the establishment is going to ignore the will of the people by devious means, and we will finish up with the worst of all worlds.
    I believe if we had another referendum the vote would be 70/30 for out, in view of the fact that all the EU wants is our money and to further cripple our industry the same way it has done Italys.
    Jack Caley
    Ignorance of many voters worries me!
    70/30 in!
    Rather think Italy as acountry, got there before the EU!

  13. #133
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Ignorance of many voters worries me!
    70/30 in!
    Rather think Italy as acountry, got there before the EU!
    I still believe 70/0 out.
    Our voters have seen the real Europe and are still seeing that all those fat cats in Europe want is our money.
    Very skilfully the EU has turned our politicians away from what our voters voted on, they voted on immigration, benefits and our infrastructure.
    I see some German businessmen wanted to reopen Cameron's negotiations, and forget all the trade problems.
    We have been trading with Italy for more than thirty years, when we first went Italy was a booming industrial nation. It has declined since they went in the EURO and also since Poland ad Roumania joined. My son tells me it is the same in Spain.
    Jack Caley
    PS Yesterday saw the service for the Grenfell fire. That was an absolute tragedy, but nobody seems to connect the need for housing with the growth of our population from the low 0,s to the high 60,s. Unlimited immigration whether it be in London, or in the northern ghettos has to be coped with somehow.
    My feeling is that the referendum vote was a knee jerk reaction to that, and I am not being racist, just realistic.
    Last edited by Jack_Caley; 15-12-17 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Addition.

  14. #134
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I still believe 70/0 out.
    Our voters have seen the real Europe and are still seeing that all those fat cats in Europe want is our money.
    Very skilfully the EU has turned our politicians away from what our voters voted on, they voted on immigration, benefits and our infrastructure.
    I see some German businessmen wanted to reopen Cameron's negotiations, and forget all the trade problems.
    We have been trading with Italy for more than thirty years, when we first went Italy was a booming industrial nation. It has declined since they went in the EURO and also since Poland ad Roumania joined. My son tells me it is the same in Spain.
    Jack Caley
    PS Yesterday saw the service for the Grenfell fire. That was an absolute tragedy, but nobody seems to connect the need for housing with the growth of our population from the low 0,s to the high 60,s. Unlimited immigration whether it be in London, or in the northern ghettos has to be coped with somehow.
    My feeling is that the referendum vote was a knee jerk reaction to that, and I am not being racist, just realistic.
    Getting there......
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8114406.html

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    The survey was among 1400 voters.
    The referendum was roughly 33 million.
    Wonder if the 1400 were all around London?
    Watched question from Barnsley my overall impression was still one of leave. Most of the audience called upon the MP,s to respect the will o the people.
    JackCaley

  16. #136
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Just to add a little to the debate as to the influence of the whole ethos of European protectionism and business methods.
    Our lorry is at present in Italy picking up a couple mill mixers.
    Just out interest it costs £3500 for the return trip, admittedly £1000 of that is the ferry fare and about another £1000 in fuel, but a huge slice is just the privilege of driving on their roads and passing through tunnels, which were created with the help of European money to which we subscribed.
    Just how much do European lorries pay for our roads?
    All along the lines, Europe has marauded against our businesses and economy, take for instance the pig industry.
    We would be far better out so we can protect ourselves just the same.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    On a slightly different tack, and not wishing to dive into the political circus too much but I always watch Andrew Marr on Sunday. He has just interviewed Diane Abbott (yes, the Shadow Home Secretary) That woman, like so many politicos these days, will not, or maybe cannot, answer a single question put to her. She just rolls her eyes to the skies and goes off on a completely different tangent. A Shadow Home Secretary who would not even be drawn on the level of EU immigration post-Brexit if her party were in power. Will there be Visas - dunno. Will there be lengthy checks - dunno. Will there be a limit on numbers - dunno. It would appear that we need migrants to do some of the work that the indigenous people are too b***dy idle to do so at least lets have a policy from the possible alternative government.

    At least the Mogg answers all questions in a succinct and precise manner that are put to him.

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Half way down is the future for Farming...
    It would appear hunger will be our only salvation...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8115156.html

  19. #139
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Half way down is the future for Farming...
    It would appear hunger will be our only salvation...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8115156.html
    All the way along, even though I would have voted out, had I not been in hospital, but I have never believed that agriculture would come out of it well.
    For years I believe we were protected by French farmers. I think that when we broke away from production related the situation was distorted and that agricultural infrastructure was distorted by payments related to acreage only that situation was going to be untenable, especially under Tories.
    I believe Teresa May was in her own way trying to achieve a negotiated settlement.
    She ought to have followed Dyson,s suggestion: hard brexit then let them come to us.
    I heard some figures the other day put out by a remainer, in which he said our exports to Europe were higher as a percentage than theirs to us. Maybe, but their exports to us were about four times ours to them. They have a lot more to lose.
    Our negotiators are far too soft, we should adopt their hard line attitude.
    Jack Caley.
    By the way the Facebook response to the Independent survey was huge, in line with the 1400 sample against 33 million.

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Many years ago in the innocence of youth I tried to deduce the meaning of the phrase "To catch a Tiger by the Tail".
    In my youthful ignorance I concluded that catching by the tail was the best option....the tail being the least dangerous part of such a mighty adversary.
    ( I also had a serious misunderstandingof the phrase "Fur coats and Nee Knickers".....being of a Northern persuasion I always presumed "Nee" was spelt "Knee" , I could never work out the significance of commenting about someone wearing a "Fur coat and Knickers" that came down to the Knee)
    Ahh the innocence.
    Farage, Gove and Johnson have indeed caught a tiger by its tail......
    There can be no good outcome...............hard or soft!
    When the well roused "Rabble" come to realise that they have been duped by the trio of charlatans and the promised £350 million a day has disappeared in the remains of the cloud of smoke and mirrors that prevailed at the time, the cold light of the economic dawn will reveal how far up the garden path the nation has been led.
    Not the end of Brexit......but the very beginnings of the end!
    None so blind as those who will not see.

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Many years ago in the innocence of youth I tried to deduce the meaning of the phrase "To catch a Tiger by the Tail".
    In my youthful ignorance I concluded that catching by the tail was the best option....the tail being the least dangerous part of such a mighty adversary.
    ( I also had a serious misunderstandingof the phrase "Fur coats and Nee Knickers".....being of a Northern persuasion I always presumed "Nee" was spelt "Knee" , I could never work out the significance of commenting about someone wearing a "Fur coat and Knickers" that came down to the Knee)
    Ahh the innocence.
    Farage, Gove and Johnson have indeed caught a tiger by its tail......
    There can be no good outcome...............hard or soft!
    When the well roused "Rabble" come to realise that they have been duped by the trio of charlatans and the promised £350 million a day has disappeared in the remains of the cloud of smoke and mirrors that prevailed at the time, the cold light of the economic dawn will reveal how far up the garden path the nation has been led.
    Not the end of Brexit......but the very beginnings of the end!
    None so blind as those who will not see.
    Actually the blackmail divorce money does include that £350 million. When that is cleared we will not be paying out huge sums to fat cats in Brussels.
    I first started traveling to france some forty odd years ago. I saw the modernisation that brought France up from virtually a third world country. The common market helped to modernise Germany and others, that was a good thing.
    What is not a good thing is the way Europe has become a left wing, protectionist monster.
    Others are beginning to see that, take Austria for instance, and there are others.
    The EU has resorted to blackmail bullies.
    If only Teresa May had the balls of Maggie, we would never have got in to this dangerous situation. We should have had hard Brexit from the start, they would have come begging. As it is Withernsea devaluation of the pound the EU will be very pleased to buy our goods.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Poor Withernsea, whilst not the most popular place in the country having to devalue the pound alone is not really fair on the place.

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barney View Post
    Poor Withernsea, whilst not the most popular place in the country having to devalue the pound alone is not really fair on the place.
    Actually, devaluing the pound is great for Withernsea, and the rest of the country. It means more tourists and can export more lobsters.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Just out of interest, my son delivered a Challenger tractor to a farmer near Rimini on the Adriatic coast. Of Italy last week, as. He was fetching two mill/mixers back.
    the farmer hated Merkel and the EU. Said he wished Italy could get out of the EU.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Looks a bit like Jack Caley replies to Jack Caley on here.
    Only the EU leave people ever come on here, those that actually do, not talk about and will suffer when our government sells us down the river cant be bothered.

    We are leaving, it will be a bloody mess and it will take a few years for everyone to realise we were so much better off as we were.

    There is a lot wrong with the EU but there is a bloody lot wrong with our own government as well and as for the argument that at least they are elected, it doesn't cover the bureaucrats that implement and come up with the majority of the rules.


    The whole basis on which the referendum was put to the people is being shown up to be lies one step after another. I bet that when the final terms are actually nailed down and laid bare in black and white if it was put back to people they would deem it not a price worth paying.

  26. #146
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAndy View Post
    Looks a bit like Jack Caley replies to Jack Caley on here.
    Only the EU leave people ever come on here, those that actually do, not talk about and will suffer when our government sells us down the river cant be bothered.

    We are leaving, it will be a bloody mess and it will take a few years for everyone to realise we were so much better off as we were.

    There is a lot wrong with the EU but there is a bloody lot wrong with our own government as well and as for the argument that at least they are elected, it doesn't cover the bureaucrats that implement and come up with the majority of the rules.


    The whole basis on which the referendum was put to the people is being shown up to be lies one step after another. I bet that when the final terms are actually nailed down and laid bare in black and white if it was put back to people they would deem it not a price worth paying.

    Be fair to Jack, just because he has the benefit of age, experience in business and now the time to squander debating here shouldn't be held against him.

    Nobody in or out of the EU can guarantee where either group will be in the future both economically or politically. Either in or out everyone will still be ruled by politicians and civil servants the majority of whom have their own agendas ahead of what they morally should be doing.
    The best thing about Facebook is the logout button......

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    ..... Either in or out everyone will still be ruled by politicians and civil servants the majority of whom have their own agendas ahead of what they morally should be doing.
    Very, very wise words ff.

    Exactly the same applies here; my personal experience attests.



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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Be fair to Jack, just because he has the benefit of age, experience in business and now the time to squander debating here shouldn't be held against him.

    Nobody in or out of the EU can guarantee where either group will be in the future both economically or politically. Either in or out everyone will still be ruled by politicians and civil servants the majority of whom have their own agendas ahead of what they morally should be doing.
    I have noticed when I talk to myself, I am always right!
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    Either in or out everyone will still be ruled by politicians and civil servants the majority of whom have their own agendas ahead of what they morally should be doing.
    Yes, but as Jack will hopefully attest to, what we have in front of us now are, by and large, a bunch of wasters. There are shining exceptions of course. Theresa, the Mogg, and probably a few in all parties but frankly most of them I wouldn't pay in washers.

    The answer of course is to get up and do it if you think you can do better but I would not last 5 minutes with my non-pc views.

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?


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