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Thread: Brexit, yes or no?

  1. #31
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by zaza View Post
    I know I have mentioned this before but probably timely now to repeat myself in this discussion (it's not an argument please, it's a discussion or a debate) To a large extent I think the whole Brexit issue is an age thing. Jack and I remember when the U.K. was called Great Britain. That was probably a bit pompous but we did have the last vestiges of an Empire. The latter morphed into a Commonwealth, Great Britain became the United Kingdom although even that is starting to disintegrate now.

    Jack and I thought that the Common Market was basically a good idea. If nothing else the basics meant that there was a fair chance of stopping another European war, maybe even another World war. And for a few years it was good. But it has grown like Topsy. And, in truth, the whole monolith has taken over large swathes of our lives. A lot of the Governance of the EU is unelected and people like Jack and I see people whoi have jumped on the gravy train which some people are wont to do if they find an easy passage through life. In my opinion we have plenty of our own MPs who couldn't run the proverbial in a brewery. In my view the U.K. is U.K. plc. It should be administered by people with business brains, acumen, and experience. Read what James Dyson says about Brexit. And I vehemently support that we must always provide an education and health system that is free at the point of delivery and a welfare system for those who need a bit of help.

    But we have lost control of our borders and to a degree our judicial system, not to mention our governence. That for me is enough to want to be freed from the clutches of the EU.

    What is really worrying is that we have become a very divided society. The haves & the have nots. There are those in inner city areas who have basically nothing, and yet look at house prices. Somebody is paying them or they wouldn't be the level they are. It's what is going to happen in this country in the future that we really need to be worried about and we need to have the ability to correct the imbalance without any interference from any Heinrich, Pascal, or Antoinette.
    Thank you, constructive debate!
    We can all learn from debate.
    You are correct, we have lost control of our borders, our judicial system and our governance.
    The blackmail by EU politicians/administrators, re single market and free movement is just that blackmail.
    The instinctive vote of our people in the referendum was due in my opinion not to prejudice but to sheer practicality. The population of our country has risen from the early 50 millions to something more than 67 million. This has put huge pressure on our infrastructure and services. No one has looked at the tragedy of the Grenfell Towers fire objectively and wondered at the need for high rise housing, especially in a metropolitan city with high cost housing. How on earth those people expect to get rehoused in a fortnight I will never know. In any case it is rumoured that some were illegal immigrants anyway. I am not being racist, just realistic.
    I do not believe we will lose jobs in this country as a result of brexit, we have been very fortunate to avoid the Euro, otherwise we would probably have finished up like Italy, Greece and Spain.
    What we need now is positive government, a clean break brexit and everything will sort itself out.
    The only people to suffer will be the fat cats in Belgium, who I shall be in close proximity with tomorrow as I am going on the overnight ferry tonight to Bruge for one glass of Belgian beer!
    Jack Caley

  2. #32
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    . . . one glass of Belgian beer!
    Jack Caley
    Must be really really good beer if all you need is one

  3. #33
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Must be really really good beer if all you need is one
    Just back from that trip.
    Very short trip but very enjoyable. Took my young granddaughters, so that they could enjoy the ferry trip and Brugge, a beautiful place.
    One very big impression though, with the devalued pound, things are tremendously expensive.
    A very small bag of chips with ketchup for my granddaughters, 3.20 euros!
    It all really does confirm my views that the europeans are really shooting themselves in the foot. The more uncertainty they create , the worse they make it for themselves. BMW and Mercedes are really going to either lose a lot of British Market or else reduce their prices artificially. Either way they lose out, we can always buy Lexus, Toyota , Nissan or Range rovers.
    The big advantage we do have is not being tied in to the euro, not like Italy, Greece or Spain, especially Italy who Europe has ruined.
    I see the Chancelloer has said that any minister can be sacked, he needs to be brought in to the real world, that even Boris knows a little bit more about.
    Jack Caley.

  4. #34
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    https://www.farminguk.com/news/Briti...tes_47545.html Some brilliant ideas coming to the fore .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  5. #35
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    https://www.farminguk.com/news/Briti...tes_47545.html Some brilliant ideas coming to the fore .
    To be fair, Cranswick Abattoir near here have been exporting various parts of the pig to the Far East extensively the last few years.
    Just goes to show we do not need all these so-called trade agreements anyway. If the product is good and the price is right we can sell it. We do not need Davis or EU or anybody, and WTO tariffs are not insurmountable anyway.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    To be fair, Cranswick Abattoir near here have been exporting various parts of the pig to the Far East extensively the last few years.
    Just goes to show we do not need all these so-called trade agreements anyway. If the product is good and the price is right we can sell it. We do not need Davis or EU or anybody, and WTO tariffs are not insurmountable anyway.
    Jack Caley
    Didn't I see something the other day where Turkey doesn't think it needs the EU anymore? an upcoming Tuexit?

  7. #37
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironhead View Post
    Didn't I see something the other day where Turkey doesn't think it needs the EU anymore? an upcoming Tuexit?
    An immaculate conception as they have never entered.
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  8. #38
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    To be fair, Cranswick Abattoir near here have been exporting various parts of the pig to the Far East extensively the last few years.
    Just goes to show we do not need all these so-called trade agreements anyway. If the product is good and the price is right we can sell it. We do not need Davis or EU or anybody, and WTO tariffs are not insurmountable anyway.
    Jack Caley
    We could start exporting more Lamb and all kinds of food to China if we dropped our prices ,or if their currency was to dramatically strengthen.
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  9. #39
    Senior Member grassmanman's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    To be fair, Cranswick Abattoir near here have been exporting various parts of the pig to the Far East extensively the last few years.
    Just goes to show we do not need all these so-called trade agreements anyway. If the product is good and the price is right we can sell it. We do not need Davis or EU or anybody, and WTO tariffs are not insurmountable anyway.
    Jack Caley
    Not sure of the specifics but the product is most likely 5th quarter stuff which we wouldn't eat and at a price we wouldn't like to be taking for the rest of the carcase.

  10. #40
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    The only issue at stake here in terms of reaching an agreement is money. Without the UK's contribution the EU budget will have a black hole of 15 billion euros. In addition the extra 15 billion euro expenditure on additional vanity projects will have a serious shortfall without the UK pitching in. As a result the net contributor countries will have to dig deeper and those which gain more i.e. France will have to receive less.
    The ball is at the UK's feet but we seem unable to grasp this fact.
    If no agreement is reached we revert to World Trade Tariffs which ave 3%, actually less than EU rates.
    Please also remember that the EU commission runs the show and is a completely unelected and generally unanswerable cabal of has been and failed euro politicians who are playing 'Billy Big Balls'
    Although UK agriculture would see price drops (which would be countered by a fall in the pound) many of our inputs would become far cheaper, fert, agro chems etc.
    The EU is very much a protection racket in terms of trade and is very much on a shaky nail.
    It is people who trade not governments or politicians a salient fact worth remembering.

  11. #41
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by LALANS View Post
    The only issue at stake here in terms of reaching an agreement is money. Without the UK's contribution the EU budget will have a black hole of 15 billion euros. In addition the extra 15 billion euro expenditure on additional vanity projects will have a serious shortfall without the UK pitching in. As a result the net contributor countries will have to dig deeper and those which gain more i.e. France will have to receive less.
    The ball is at the UK's feet but we seem unable to grasp this fact.
    If no agreement is reached we revert to World Trade Tariffs which ave 3%, actually less than EU rates.
    Please also remember that the EU commission runs the show and is a completely unelected and generally unanswerable cabal of has been and failed euro politicians who are playing 'Billy Big Balls'
    Although UK agriculture would see price drops (which would be countered by a fall in the pound) many of our inputs would become far cheaper, fert, agro chems etc.
    The EU is very much a protection racket in terms of trade and is very much on a shaky nail.
    It is people who trade not governments or politicians a salient fact worth remembering.
    Very well put,
    Jack Caley

  12. #42
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by grassmanman View Post
    Not sure of the specifics but the product is most likely 5th quarter stuff which we wouldn't eat and at a price we wouldn't like to be taking for the rest of the carcase.
    You are correct, but that is what Gove was talking about, pigs ears!
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    If "Speccy Gove" opened a door for me and said after you, I would be having a dam good look to make sure it was actually a door!

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    The whole scenario seems to get worse every day!
    At one time I did believe Teresa May, that Brexit meant Brexit. Now, with Hammond and the Home Secretary exerting undue influence, I am beginning to wonder if we will ever leave.
    One heartening thought though on Facebook there were hundreds who said that after the EU. Behaviour lately they were more than ever convinced to leave!
    Jack Caley.
    Its just about money!!

  15. #45
    Senior Member skoda's Avatar
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    The whole scenario seems to get worse every day!
    At one time I did believe Teresa May, that Brexit meant Brexit. Now, with Hammond and the Home Secretary exerting undue influence, I am beginning to wonder if we will ever leave.
    One heartening thought though on Facebook there were hundreds who said that after the EU. Behaviour lately they were more than ever convinced to leave!
    Jack Caley.
    Its just about money!!
    No shortage of echo chambers on FB to seek reassurance .
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.

  16. #46
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by skoda View Post
    No shortage of echo chambers on FB to seek reassurance .
    I would agree with you if it were not for the total apathy of the masses. Normally most people are so apathetic they just read and carry on. They have got to feel strongly just to write a few words.
    There were some remainders who wrote that after they had realised that Europe just wants our money, they had changed their minds.
    Jack Caley

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    I would agree with you if it were not for the total apathy of the masses. Normally most people are so apathetic they just read and carry on. They have got to feel strongly just to write a few words.
    There were some remainders who wrote that after they had realised that Europe just wants our money, they had changed their minds.
    Jack Caley
    Yessssss....the Tory Remainer upper echelons appear to be very much in the mood for realising that they were at the time misguided.
    Now that this error has been pointed out to them, they feel the need to make this clear to the media!

  18. #48
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Caley View Post
    The whole scenario seems to get worse every day!
    At one time I did believe Teresa May, that Brexit meant Brexit. Now, with Hammond and the Home Secretary exerting undue influence, I am beginning to wonder if we will ever leave.
    One heartening thought though on Facebook there were hundreds who said that after the EU. Behaviour lately they were more than ever convinced to leave!
    Jack Caley.
    Its just about money!!
    One of advantage down here in Oz Jack is that Brexit is very much off the radar, theres plenty here to be chewing over their politicians with feet in more than one country, Clive Palmer who still hasn't extricated himself from loosing most of his farm and mineral rights since we were last here 18months ago and of course now its the weekend the whole country has time out for sport of some sort....................!
    The best thing about Facebook is the logout button......

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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Footsfitter View Post
    One of advantage down here in Oz Jack is that Brexit is very much off the radar, theres plenty here to be chewing over their politicians with feet in more than one country, Clive Palmer who still hasn't extricated himself from loosing most of his farm and mineral rights since we were last here 18months ago and of course now its the weekend the whole country has time out for sport of some sort....................!
    Try and leave things tidy when you leave!
    Following you around.

  20. #50
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    Try and leave things tidy when you leave!
    Following you around.
    Sadly the Brand Highway up north does have a fair bit of litter scattered around, luckily no where near as much as we saw the 1st time here going up the bottom end of the same No1 highway from Esperance to the goldfields. It seems that drivers are unable to keep all their litter with them and it becomes more apparent the more remote the area is- either its boredom or less police to catch the litter bugs.


    I hope my promoter covered his margin and my fee then
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  21. #51
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gee View Post
    If "Speccy Gove" opened a door for me and said after you, I would be having a dam good look to make sure it was actually a door!
    This is pretty much the crux of the matter for me. Even if leaving was a good idea, you've still got to trust our current crop of politicians to deliver it.

    This is an example of the sort of idiocy we're dealing with here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ld-boost-food/

    I mean where do you even begin with the stupidity of that statement?

    I wouldn't trust them to find their arses with both hands, let alone negotiate a complex and unprecedented international trade deal with multiple partners. Even those who think Brexit is a great idea even now must have reservations about the team of imbeciles charged with actually making it happen.

  22. #52
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    This is pretty much the crux of the matter for me. Even if leaving was a good idea, you've still got to trust our current crop of politicians to deliver it.

    This is an example of the sort of idiocy we're dealing with here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ld-boost-food/

    I mean where do you even begin with the stupidity of that statement?

    I wouldn't trust them to find their arses with both hands, let alone negotiate a complex and unprecedented international trade deal with multiple partners. Even those who think Brexit is a great idea even now must have reservations about the team of imbeciles charged with actually making it happen.
    I took a quick look at the article and I think Britain could be self-sufficient in food production - there just wouldn't be the variety of foods available that exist with global trade.

    "unprecedented international trade deal with multiple partners" - there are multiple mult-partner trade deals in other parts of the world - the Canadian EU deal, NAFTA (Canada, US, Mexico), Pan-American trade deal (many parts of North and South America), Pan-Pacific (I think that is what it is called) for many countries bordering the Pacific ocean, etc.

    Britain's biggest problem is it has depended on the EU for the last few decades and has lost "the touch" in negotiating for its own benefit. Perhaps they need to bring in some of the negotiators from these other trade deals to act on Britain's behalf?

  23. #53
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by matbrojoe View Post
    This is pretty much the crux of the matter for me. Even if leaving was a good idea, you've still got to trust our current crop of politicians to deliver it.

    This is an example of the sort of idiocy we're dealing with here:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...ld-boost-food/

    I mean where do you even begin with the stupidity of that statement?

    I wouldn't trust them to find their arses with both hands, let alone negotiate a complex and unprecedented international trade deal with multiple partners. Even those who think Brexit is a great idea even now must have reservations about the team of imbeciles charged with actually making it happen.
    The main reason we were even allowed in to 00,00the Common Market, was precisely because the Europeans wanted our market. Do not forget De Gaulle would not allow us in for a start!
    Take for instance the pig industry, we had a herd of 800,000 sows at one time in the UK. It is now about 400,000! By various means including cheap imported feed from Indonesia, poor welfare standards, sow stalls etc, and our processors prepared to screw British producers, the number of pig producers just down this coastline fell by 30odd within 20 miles of here..
    They wanted our market then, they still want it.
    What politicians ought to do is just pull straight out of the single market , and the customs union and let them come begging to us.
    For years I went across borders in Europe with no hassle. It was easy just to put customs documents in the ships box, to be put over the side whilst we were in the lock in Hull port. There is absolutely no reason why we should not still have a free market, only EU politicians holding a gun at our heads, so they can carry on drawing billions from us to support their federalist dreams and incomes.
    Those billions would pay something towards our NHS and help to house the millions of immigrants.
    Jack Caley

  24. #54
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    only EU politicians holding a gun at our heads,
    It's not the EU politicians holding the gun, we're holding it ourselves, i suppose we could always not pull the trigger but, you know, taking back control and all that.

  25. #55
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    Re: Brexit, yes or no?

    One problem that we have which rrarely gets a mention is that a lot of the cabinet voted remain. How on Earth can they have their hearts in the job of brexit ? We have a Prime Minister and a Chancellor who never wanted to leave in the first place. And Hammond's buddy Osborne is going to do his level best to screw things up if he can by trying to persuade Hammond what a bad idea it was.

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