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Thread: HGCA and DD

  1. #31
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Hartwig View Post
    Yep, as rule of thumb says, DDing 2 weeks later in spring and 2 weeks earlier in autumn compared to regional tillage standard !! That means in my opinion that a bit too wet drilling makes less problems when it`s done later in spring or earlier in autumn - so the worst you can do is DDing early and wet in spring or late and wet in autumn. That means patience is a virtue in spring as soils become drier usually but go for it in autumn, even if it may be a bit damp.



    I`ve done it twice and really can`t recommend it !! Wait another 2 month until soils have dried and warmed up a bit more and you will have 2 days delayed harvest from later drilling but much more vigour seedlings and more yield from my experience.
    Hartwig
    I agree with your concepts re: drilling times but there comes a point (like we had in the wet years of 08/09) that you have to do something or you will not have a crop....and with the benefit of hindsight the best thing we did was to run through some of our land with a flexi-tine (tined cultivator 250mm row spacing @ 100mm depth) it was just enough to allow the surface to dry and some oxygen to get into the soil after which we able to drill in one pass with our Kuhn drill...with reasonable results. Not direct-drilling but in years when we had 1000+ mm's of rainfall it was the only answer (10 year av.700mm....2011-375mm and this year looks like being even drier! but if we are looking at averages we will be at 675mm over 5 years not far from the 700mm)

  2. #32
    shakerator
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Hartwig
    I agree with your concepts re: drilling times but there comes a point (like we had in the wet years of 08/09) that you have to do something or you will not have a crop....and with the benefit of hindsight the best thing we did was to run through some of our land with a flexi-tine (tined cultivator 250mm row spacing @ 100mm depth) it was just enough to allow the surface to dry and some oxygen to get into the soil after which we able to drill in one pass with our Kuhn drill...with reasonable results. Not direct-drilling but in years when we had 1000+ mm's of rainfall it was the only answer (10 year av.700mm....2011-375mm and this year looks like being even drier! but if we are looking at averages we will be at 675mm over 5 years not far from the 700mm)
    jim

    do you not believe a cover crop wicking moisture out can substitute the drying effect of cultivating in some situations? even if it means chnaging your cropping at the last minute (allelopathy etc)

  3. #33
    Hartwig
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    shakerator,
    I`m still committed with no-till, as I`ve seen very good results (sadly in small fields) just beside poor results (sadly in large fields). For example last year I had 2nd wheat into stripped straw with only 6,2 to yield and field next door under comparable conditions with no cover-crop some oats with 8,6 to yield ! Don`t ask me why, but my feeling is that spring crops may outcompete autumn crops in DDing in terms of economy, especially when conditions become a bit tough and mainly late in autumn.

    I`ve drilled beans and oats up to around 15th to 20th april with best results and would say that everything will become fine as long as it is april, but certainly a bit hurry if it becomes last decade in april. Depends on the weather of that year for sure. Yield especially of beans is more effected by rain and temperatures in june/july than any drilling date - if it is a bit too dry and/or too hot, yield will drop immediately. I feel that drilling dates have just a small influence on success in spring (in DDing, as moisture is always enough), but may have a big influence in autumn if it becomes a bit late.


    Jim,
    I know what you mean and can agree - I would have been able to drill more crops last autumn if I had done cultivations !! But what for at the end ?? I will prove the next years how spring crops may compare in terms of economy with autumn crops as spring cropping is a totally different system in DDing than in tillage (conserving moisture) and if spring crops are the key to permanent DDing it may be more economic than getting out the plough or cultivator every few years when it is too wet and make probably a mess deeper down in the soil only for the effect to grow winter wheat where oats, beans or spring barley can maybe reach comparable yields. Market prices are a bit more risky maybe, but what is risky in these years when we`ve seen wheat prices vary from 90 to 280 EUR/to ??

  4. #34
    FarmerDan
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Personally I like to plan my crop rotation in advance so I can buy the best seed varieties, buy the right amount of fertiliser and sell a certain percentage of my crop forward. I wouldn't be able to do this if I need to change my cropping plan at the last minute, so I have no problem in a bit of pragmatic tillage do aerate and dry the soil if conditions force me to.

    The key thing, surely, is to be pragmatic and to do the best you can within the constraints of the economics of the situation. If all you care about is your soil structure then grass the lot down and mob graze it or plant trees or something.

  5. #35
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Had my hard copy today..
    Can anybody find the Soane et al. (2012) Soil and Tillage Research 118: 66-87 (www.elsevier.co/locate/still) on which the publication is based (mentioned in Background on the back page...I have trawled through the website but can't find much.

  6. #36
    Shutesy
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bullock View Post
    Had my hard copy today..
    Can anybody find the Soane et al. (2012) Soil and Tillage Research 118: 66-87 (www.elsevier.co/locate/still) on which the publication is based (mentioned in Background on the back page...I have trawled through the website but can't find much.
    Jim, I can read the whole article on ScienceDirect.com but can't just post the link as I had to log in to read it, anyone else not logged in would have to purchase the article. I have downloaded the PDF of the article which hopefully should appear somewhere in this post.

  7. #37
    slejpner
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Top work Shutesy, and thank you.
    Have downloaded and saved - others shd do likewise - Abstract and first page are an encouraging start.

    (Shutesy - i suspect strongly you shd not have made available to all, and shd probably pull the link soonish. Unless you are confident to the contrary, in which case great )

  8. #38
    Jim Bullock
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Thanks Shutesy...have managed to save it.

  9. #39
    Shutesy
    Guest

    Re: HGCA and DD

    Quote Originally Posted by slejpner View Post
    Top work Shutesy, and thank you.
    Have downloaded and saved - others shd do likewise - Abstract and first page are an encouraging start.

    (Shutesy - i suspect strongly you shd not have made available to all, and shd probably pull the link soonish. Unless you are confident to the contrary, in which case great )
    Did think about that once I had posted it but articles on there are ridiculously expensive for what you get, however I have pulled it off for now. If anyone would like the document just drop me a PM (probably still a bit naughty but at least then its not on public display). One of my things to do before I leave Harper is to spend some time finding some good articles on no-till and related topics and save them to read at a later date before i lose my login priviledges.

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