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Thread: Leyland 4/98

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    Leyland 4/98

    Looking for info on how to ID my engine?
    The engine was destened for JCB but was bought by Thornycroft and marinised an is currently in my boat,
    The engine runs as sweet as a nut but has a lot of hours on it and is a little smokey on start up,
    I have found a overhaul kit by Agraline but I am un sure of the exact engine model,
    As far as I know it is a 4/98nt but un sure if the overhaul kits fitts all 4/98nt engine range?
    Any help would be much appreciated.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    There should be an id number on the side of the block below number 4 injector. Agriline engine kits would'nt be of the higest quality,hence the cheaper price.Bepco or Sparex would be of better quality........
    You really need to have the pistons and liners out and do a bit of measuring before ordering parts as there are a couple of different lengths of liners and 4 and 5 ring pistons available.
    If the engine is starting and running well and not using oil,why not just pull the injectors first and get them tested? Just be careful of the injector sleeves coming out with the injectors as I'm not sure how readily available they are now for replacement and may need a special tool to properly reinsert them without damage.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Quote Originally Posted by agrimax View Post
    There should be an id number on the side of the block below number 4 injector. Agriline engine kits would'nt be of the higest quality,hence the cheaper price.Bepco or Sparex would be of better quality........
    You really need to have the pistons and liners out and do a bit of measuring before ordering parts as there are a couple of different lengths of liners and 4 and 5 ring pistons available.
    If the engine is starting and running well and not using oil,why not just pull the injectors first and get them tested? Just be careful of the injector sleeves coming out with the injectors as I'm not sure how readily available they are now for replacement and may need a special tool to properly reinsert them without damage.
    I had the injectors and injector pump reconditioned the head overhauled and new injector pockets swadged in a couple of years ago so I think its a little ware
    causing the smoke,
    Do you have any recomondations where to buy the Bepco/Sparex overhaul kits?

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    I have a local dealer 4 miles away for both Bepco and Sparex so I have never used anyone else but a look on Google gives these....

    http://www.gordonagri.co.uk/index.ph...egory&path=138
    http://www.forge-services.co.uk/acat...pco-Store.html
    https://www.tvh.com/expe/en/parts-ac...ural-equipment
    https://www.malpasonline.co.uk/

    Engine Fix UK could be another option too.

    Or you could try
    https://www.tractorspareparts.co.uk/
    https://www.charnleys.com/

    Both the above would be Leyland experts I believe.The Leyland 272 having the 4/98NT.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    I overhauled a late 4/98TT last year using the Agriline kit and was very happy with the quality of the parts though they had to supply a different liner to the one in the "kit" to match my spec I would strip the engine before ordering any parts as there are quite a few variations in liner design some very subtle. Pay close attention to the depth of the lip on the liners you remove (use verniers) as fitting the wrong one will cause repeated head gasket failure. I would not regard Bepco parts as better quality than agriline, Bepco can be hit and miss . The only better parts would be AE Hepolite but I don't think they are available any more.
    There are at least three possible liners that can be fitted to the 4/98 block depending on the date of manufacture. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more than three. There are considerable physical dimensional differences between the liners ,some dimensions you can get away with but one you won't_ the depth of the top flange. A parts vendor that offers you a "kit that will fit your engine" without a serial number is Russian roulette and knows nothing about 4/98 engines.
    The three liners that I am aware of are (in the Agriline brand) :

    https://www.agrilineproducts.com/liner-14464.html

    https://www.agrilineproducts.com/liner-14472.html

    https://www.agrilineproducts.com/liner-14465.html

    As you see all listed for the same engines/tractor and JCB backhoe loader

    Any supplier offering professional products needs to cater for all these variations not send a load of shims to fill the gap. Some companies only offer the short flange and a load of shims then blame you for not achieving the proper stand out from the block when the engine fails. Plenty of the late engines require no shims at all to be in spec. with the correct liner.

    Top tip __if you plan to fit a liner with the wrong flange depth save a lot of time by making a wee pile of your money and lighting it.

    Providing your engine has been working well for a long period fitting the same as is in it should be Ok the problems occur when you strip an engine someone else has made an a**e of by fitting wrong parts then it's expert territory to know the existing liners were wrong and what should have been in it. Measure the liners you remove especially the flange depth and overall length.

    Big flange in shallow block recess equals coolant and oil leaks wrongly attributed to head gasket failure

    Shallow flange in deep block = either a load of unnecessary shims or no shims and repeated head gasket failures.

    There are four variations of the 4/98 engine that I am aware of

    4/98DT
    4/98NT
    4/98TT
    4/98NV

    I've had spanners on the first three many a time not the last which was a high revving variant. When you actually work at them in detail you find a plethora of differences internally including things like heavier valve train components on the turbo models (thicker tappet rods for a start) different injector nozzles etc but of course the armchair experts will tell you the only difference is the turbo lol. If your engine was from a JCB there will likely be no balance gear assembly in it. If it has balance gears fitted it is more likely but not certain to have come from a tractor. There was a bit of "whatever was available" in a hurry went on at BL. Be sure to be very fussy on the correct thermostat with the moving disc and there is also a special "anti-splash"gasket available from Charnley's for the lift pump to stop the usual leak. An ordinary thermostat overheats a 4/98 engine as the water has an easier escape route back round the block instead of through the radiator. Runing with no thermostat fitted counterintuitively overheats the engine in heavy work.

    https://www.charnleys.com/part/nuffi...et-anti-splash

    https://www.charnleys.com/part/leyla...508/thermostat

    The last time I ordered the thermostat from Charnleys they sent the wrong one, even the experts can make a mistake, they are otherwise generally very helpful and good at the job.

    Should your engine not have balance gears and you decide to fit a new oil pump consider fitting the balance gear type and sourcing a set of secondhand balance gears and housing from a tractor breaker as it's a worthwhile refinement upgrade.
    Unbalanced 4/98 oil pump:

    https://www.emmarkuk.com/en/leyland-...anced-oil-pump

    The above listing totally incorrectly states that the unbalanced pump fits tractors which it does not. Click on the tractor models and it takes you to the correct Balance 4/98 oil pump with the bushing for the balance gear drive shaft:

    https://www.emmarkuk.com/en/leyland-...anced-oil-pump

    As per usual a lot of the model listings are wrong, the top one isn't fitted to tractors only the JCB and lorry engines etc on resilient mounts.

    At this stage there are countless bizza's and bodges swopped from this to that out there.

    The 4/98 is a great wee engine reliable and a good performer properly built and looked after, a money pit in the hands of the technically ignorant. Be fussy about parts suppliers as allegedly these engines are exported to India where no doubt a lot of dubious spares are made to service them. The like's of Charnely's and Agriline seem OK on quality but ebay maybe not. Sparex OK Bepco and Vapormatic my least preferred.
    Last edited by T P; 08-01-18 at 12:41 AM.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    Does anyone know what model of turbo was fitted to 498 TT?

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtractif View Post
    Does anyone know what model of turbo was fitted to 498 TT?
    From Memory I would tentatively recall that most of the tractors had a Holset brand one though I'll need to double check to be sure. One or applications used different brands of turbo. Contact Charnleys's for a definite answer as they are the experts:

    https://www.charnleys.com/part/leyla...-reconditioned

    The third small picture underneath does indeed show the brand Holset in the casting of the air blower housing. These were a very long lasting turbo if the engine was serviced though the engine would make really big power only for a relatively short time if grossly overfueled! Late Turbo engines had a plethora of different parts to the naturally aspirated version including different injectors, heavier tappet rods, different (heavier wall) cylinder liners and harder bearing shells. Anything over 90hp without the upgraded parts tends to result in reduced life expectancy. Back in the day I got to fix a few with melted pistons etc after someone else made amateur fuel adjustments without a dyno. I spoke to someone from Marshall's development team once who indicated that with the right intercooler, oil cooler and big radiator lowered compression ratio etc I believe a reliable 140 hp was possible. They were looking at how far they could push the engine to save them looking for an alternative power plant for newer models but it never went into production.
    The correct injector nozzle for the turbo engine is pretty much impossible to obtain now: BDLL150S6760 so everybody tries to fob you off with the naturally aspirated nozzle instead which does work but not properly, the nearest alternative is the nozzle from the rare 6610 ford with the rotary CAV pump BDLL150S6764 which I can confirm does work acceptably / properly. Not only is the nozzle different between turbo and non turbo engines but the injecting pressure and pump timing is different too.



    you can get away with the wrong nozzles and settings as long as you don't go for increased fuel to fully utilise the turbo. Be warned this is one of the easiest engines to destroy meddling with the power output if you do not really know what you are doing especially if it's got inappropriate parts fitted.





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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Thank you, I spoke to Charnleys but the werenít much help other than to say Leyland fitted Holset and Marshal fitted Garrett. They sell a pump for a 92 hp rated engine and a Garrett turbo with a turbo injector but all are service exchange
    My tt

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    My TT engine came with a Garret T04B51 which appears to be used on 6354T so Iím trying to find the correct pump, injector and turbo numbers for these engines

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Charnley list this Garrett turbo HKJ2215R but wonít say what model it is
    https://www.charnleys.com/part/marsh...15/turbo-recon

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    Charnley list this pump for the later 92hp 498 Marshal
    https://www.charnleys.com/part/marsh...econditioned-1

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    Charnley list this injector for the turbo 498TT
    https://www.charnleys.com/part/leyla...turbo-injector

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    To the OP I would say does it start easily and does it burn any significant oil?
    If yes and no then why touch the engine? You could check to see that it running at the correct temperature when warm and not being overcooled.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Quote Originally Posted by essexpete View Post
    To the OP I would say does it start easily and does it burn any significant oil?
    If yes and no then why touch the engine? You could check to see that it running at the correct temperature when warm and not being overcooled.

    I am assuming that as the OP is fairly old it was overhauled by now and he's thinking of adding a turbo but information to go on what's actually taken place is scarce. Pics would help too.

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Quote Originally Posted by Xtractif View Post
    Charnley list this Garrett turbo HKJ2215R but wonít say what model it is
    https://www.charnleys.com/part/marsh...15/turbo-recon
    Everything except the models indicated in that link used the holset brand turbo, ie the vast majority of all 4/98TT's ever built. The rare and not very good 904 had some tweaks for more power including the bigger volume garrett turbo and a minimec inline pump to deliver more fuel and significantly earlier timing also an oil cooler and more efficient fan as the radiator size was compromising. It wasn't a great success by all accounts. There might have been other changes to the 904 like a lower compression ratio that I am not aware of as very few were built and I never actually worked on one though I knew of one locally and it was not very reliable. As the engine is in a boat it will likely utilise a heat exchanger which would not suffer the physical constraints of the tractor radiator so with the right combination of parts including an oil cooler and intercooler big power could be achieved but any mistake will result in a meltdown, far cheaper just to fit an engine with bigger power to start with .The turbo perkins out of the 3cx easily makes 100hp reliably in a boat and is popular on fishing boats on Lough Neagh as it's a light engine so the boat sits relatively high in the water. Anything heavy like a 6 cylinder puts the boat down in the water too low and the extra power is just wasted getting the boat to come up onto it's tail. I've been out on an eel fishing boat on the Lough with a guy I did the engine up for and it's ropey, no lights in the dark, no lifejacket, hardly any of them can swim etc etc and his was one of the better setup's

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    This looks like the Marshall Turbo just need pump number now thanks
    https://turbocentras.com/turbo-model/TA3117

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Now discovered itís a TV engine as fitted in Trucks
    https://www.melett.com/turbo-model-r...&EngineBHP=100

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    Re: Leyland 4/98

    Can anyone tell me the Simms pump number for turbo 498?

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    Re: Leyland 4/98 TT

    Seems the 92hp has a P4801/6a but my engine should have a P5000/3a
    Anyone help with this pump?

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