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Thread: RHI

  1. #61
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    Re: RHI

    Anyone else with biogas CHP RHI accredited? We applied Feb last year, approved October. Now extending the system to row of cottages across the road.

  2. #62
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    Re: RHI

    progressing rapidly cubo heaters arrived, cable/pipe tray going up, bins connected and filled with pellets.
    10 fitters/sparkies on site today



  3. #63
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    Re: RHI

    Was that your place in the recent farmers weekly article?

  4. #64
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    Re: RHI

    not me , I need to get a read of that

  5. #65
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    Re: RHI

    What sort of distance can you pipe the heat (presumably as hot water?). Very interested as we are looking at an anaerobic digester and have a very significant heat demand, if we can get it there, but it is approx 500m away. If we can get some value from the heat it helps it all stack up.

  6. #66
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by Downcows View Post
    What sort of distance can you pipe the heat (presumably as hot water?). Very interested as we are looking at an anaerobic digester and have a very significant heat demand, if we can get it there, but it is approx 500m away. If we can get some value from the heat it helps it all stack up.
    3 or 4 insulated pipe firms around, flow and return pex type best.
    We dealt direct with flexenergy.
    Very good sevice and here next day.
    There will be heat losses over that distance, but if you got an ad, and combined heat and power, may be your losses will be minamal?

  7. #67
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    Smile Re: Transporting heat long distance

    Quote Originally Posted by Downcows View Post
    What sort of distance can you pipe the heat (presumably as hot water?). Very interested as we are looking at an anaerobic digester and have a very significant heat demand, if we can get it there, but it is approx 500m away. If we can get some value from the heat it helps it all stack up.
    Hey Downcows; transporting heat over that kind of distance shouldn't be too much of a problem. Providing you get the right bore pipe and a large enough pump to transport the hot water quick enough it should be fine. There are systems on the market that will be perfectly capable of retaining the heat, one such system we have used is http://www.uponor.co.uk/solutions/re...onor-aqua.aspxaspx

    This is a pre-insulated, large-bore flexible pipe which is capable of transporting potable hot water up to 95 degrees centigrade above or below ground. We have used this system before to take hot water and central heating flow and returns from an outdoor plant room into a separate building by running it in an underground trench. It can even be supplied with a trace-heating cable by request to prevent freezing in cold conditions when not in use. Uponor are a very reliable company whom we have dealt with on many occasions and they have never failed to achieve.

    If you would prefer to shop around (which we always recommend) then another good company we have used before and would suggest taking a look at is Watts Microflex (also sometimes referred to as Watts Industry), here is a link to the product list you may need http://www.microflexuk.co.uk/productSelector.htm.

    Hope it all goes well, any more questions just ask! I'm always happy to be a help!

  8. #68
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    Re: RHI

    slope is as much of an issue as distance, I wanted to add my house to the boiler system 200m away but approx 12 rise in ground, means bigger bore piping need and a bigger pump, pipe was around 90/m, bigger electric cost for pump and bigger heat loss due to more hot water in the bigger pipes.
    sadly the house remains on lpg

  9. #69
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    Re: RHI

    Thank you RGT, CHALLISS and treblesykes.

    This is really very useful information, there is an energy demand of approximately 30,000 per annum at this site, and so it certainly does look feasible to do. Wouldn't have know where to start (or whether it was worth looking) without your input. I feel a bit guilty for derailing this thread and so will start a new one if I have any further questions, but seriously thanks again for your help and advice. Hugely appreciated

  10. #70
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    Re: RHI

    Ask away, if we can help we will, its all an upward learning curve for us all ?

  11. #71
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    Re: RHI

    Hi. Treble, Question time, how is it going. 1 why did you put 2* 97kw boilers with feed bins to one container instead of 1* 200kw 2. is the distribution working out ok and again do you think a heater on your Clima's would be an answer. 3 did the 97 kw do the heating when we had early summer cold on that first batch. That's for starters.

  12. #72
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    Re: RHI

    2 heaters per cabin for better reliabilty, I had quotes for one 200kw heater and yes considerably cheaper. I can at times turn one heater off and use less fuel when on standby, also boiler are more efficient when burning hard so one at 60% is better than two at 30%.
    A neigbour is going with 200kw but id worry about breakdowns etc, dont forget its a 20 year thing.
    one bin with 2 augers might have been better for fuel level/bin stock control.

    distribution etc very good but it was an easy summer crop so time will tell.

    I had installers looking at fitting heat coils in the clima but they all seem to dislike the idea, one said it would be classed as a separate building so would complicate RHI accreditation.

    taking the heat directly to the cubo heater 60 cm above the chicks seems to work very well.

    birds at day 3 in pic, good birds supplied from hatchery , another shed had poorer birds and didnt look as well as these at same age. so not just a biomass advantage.
    sorry about poor camera phone pic but you get the idea

  13. #73
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    Re: RHI

    Thanks Treble, The Large black tubes, do they draw fresh air in from outside or are they drawing hot air from the top of the shed? My birds go out Wednesday Thursday this week. Last Saturday we Had outside 32.5c today 31c not going to be great catching in these temps.

  14. #74
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by treblesykes View Post
    slope is as much of an issue as distance, I wanted to add my house to the boiler system 200m away but approx 12 rise in ground, means bigger bore piping need and a bigger pump, pipe was around 90/m, bigger electric cost for pump and bigger heat loss due to more hot water in the bigger pipes.
    sadly the house remains on lpg
    Slope is not really an issue as the water goes and comes back. You should be able to get double preinsulated from around 50/m in 50 mm id 63 od, or in the 30s per metre in the next size but one down 40 od. Mind you, fittings are not cheap. Our first installation was in Uponor as the fittings do not need special tools. We are able to borrow a Rehau tool so have used this for our extension. We have about 60 m from CHP to digester heating and 55 to the main distribution point, in the large size, then about 60 m to the cottages in 40. Cheese factory, house and milking parlour are supplied by Hep2O pipe (28 mm and 22mm, with normal insualtion, in underground ducting.

    Grain drying/heat dump radiator is in 3" threaded steel pipe.

    The Germans used to reckon it was worth taking 1 kW of heat 1 meter in preinsulated, so 200 m is justified by 200 kW.

    Getting RHI on all but digester heating and heat dump/grain drying

    Gett

  15. #75
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    Re: RHI

    Maybe true but my installer calculated it and costed it, plans are in my head to put an rhi boiler on the grain drier and thats much closer to the farmhouse and at the same altitude. Also the poultry sheds will use most of the tarriff 1 meaning the house usage will mostly be tarriff 2,

  16. #76
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    Re: RHI

    RHI accredited

  17. #77
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    Re: RHI

    Well done- Hard going ant' it?

  18. #78
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    Re: RHI

    Quite easy TBH, I employed an agent and the system design threw up very few questions, Simple set up really 1 meter per boiler cabin, boilers very close to sheds, heat loss calculations accepted rather than second meters at point of use.

  19. #79
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by treblesykes View Post
    Quite easy TBH, I employed an agent..........
    Dare I ask how much they charged?

    I spoke to a guy t'other day who had X identical chicken sheds with a straw boiler for each (all the same)
    The agent wanted over 1K for *EACH* shed!!!

  20. #80
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    Re: RHI

    no idea, it was an 'all in' price with the install. the installer was going to do it himself but decided he was too busy and passed it on to an expert. no worries.

    second batch of chicks came in today, boilers are coping easily with this good weather. 33.5 C in the sheds

  21. #81
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by treblesykes View Post
    the installer was going to do it himself but decided he was too busy and passed it on to an expert. no worries.
    So .... I've done three RHI's now, does that make me an "expert"

  22. #82
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    Re: RHI

    With Ofgems new version 3 , on going commitments for participants and audits and inspections,1/ has anyone had a visit yet, 2/ apparatus service, checks etc 3/ Meters, re-checked, verified, and re-calibrated and what is procedure and how do you measure heat when you send them off etc.???
    All issues we can expect I guess???

  23. #83
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    Re: RHI

    Anyone got any outline guess figures for cost of install, size of system and estimated payments for a log boiler (looking at Eco Angus) in a barn with block walls, insulated roof, converted to offices / workshop. Approx 350 m2. It also needs to serve the farmhouse about 20m away, approx 120 m2. Well insulated barn conversion with accumulator / esse stove already fitted but not enough to heat it.

    I am assuming boiler and tank is in the barn. We have a supply of wood and if going for this would be looking to plant out 4 or more acres of hybrid willow for fuel on top of our existing woodlands / coppice.

  24. #84
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasty View Post
    Anyone got any outline guess figures for cost of install, size of system and estimated payments for a log boiler (looking at Eco Angus) in a barn with block walls, insulated roof, converted to offices / workshop. Approx 350 m2. It also needs to serve the farmhouse about 20m away, approx 120 m2. Well insulated barn conversion with accumulator / esse stove already fitted but not enough to heat it.

    I am assuming boiler and tank is in the barn. We have a supply of wood and if going for this would be looking to plant out 4 or more acres of hybrid willow for fuel on top of our existing woodlands / coppice.

    I am going to say 25-30k -( if heat exchangers used to existing systems) maybe you will save lot less if do most things/source items yourself, but if you want to blow money and give installations, pipe laying everything to a firm may be 40-45k ball park???

  25. #85
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    Re: RHI

    Looks like NEW regs. again coming in for biomass fuelstock suppliers and users for the rhi installations, wether new installations and or existing from this April, as article in the Farmers Weekly states ?

  26. #86
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    Re: RHI

    Most prob. all of you that are RHI Accredited -non-domestic have received today report from Ofgem -Quarterly Report about Scheme.

    Noted was - Biomas Sustainability Requirements for NEW AND EXISTING rhi Plants .

    Looks like you ither got to buy from a list of certified wood sellers or be self certified and have indipendant report on certification again of your wood , nothing stated how , or about crop residues or straw cert. process ??
    Anyone Know anything ?

  27. #87
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by treblesykes View Post
    slope is as much of an issue as distance, I wanted to add my house to the boiler system 200m away but approx 12 rise in ground, means bigger bore piping need and a bigger pump, pipe was around 90/m, bigger electric cost for pump and bigger heat loss due to more hot water in the bigger pipes.
    sadly the house remains on lpg
    I cannot understand that statement above.
    Since the water is circulating, the down flow cancels out the extra energy for pumping "up" surely?
    It should be purely about the length of pipe needed.
    marcus

  28. #88
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by RGT View Post
    Most prob. all of you that are RHI Accredited -non-domestic have received today report from Ofgem -Quarterly Report about Scheme.

    Noted was - Biomas Sustainability Requirements for NEW AND EXISTING rhi Plants .

    Looks like you ither got to buy from a list of certified wood sellers or be self certified and have indipendant report on certification again of your wood , nothing stated how , or about crop residues or straw cert. process ??
    Anyone Know anything ?

    Have applied to be a certified wood seller but there still thinking about it.

  29. #89
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    Re: RHI

    Quote Originally Posted by renewablejohn View Post
    Have applied to be a certified wood seller but there still thinking about it.
    yes that will be good.

    Ofgem come out with all these rules and regs. but when you ask them to clarify and explain to an individual situation/senario ; their lost ?

  30. #90
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    Re: RHI

    What RHI has done is make a woodland that I would have harvested totally worthless. In the past the cost of felling and extracting I have recovered from biomass chip sales the profit coming from the sale of round wood from road side. Now all biomass sales will need to be from certified sustainable forests therefore I no longer have a market for the woodchip from this non certified woodland the owner being not interested in the red tape to obtain the sustainability.

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