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Thread: Romneys

  1. #1
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Romneys

    [YOUTUBE]d937tnzmmd8&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
    Good eh !

  2. #2
    Poorbuthappy
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    You using Wairere lines then Hilly?
    Currently wondering if I should have gone with the NZ Romney instead of the Highlander

  3. #3
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Good video.

    Personally that is how EVERY breed should be. Iv started from scratch but in essence the things outlined in this video are what my end goals are.

    Yer blackie and Mule breeders would have a heart attack watching that

  4. #4
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    [QUOTE=Nithsdale farmer;896540]Good video.

    Personally that is how EVERY breed should be. Iv started from scratch but in essence the things outlined in this video are what my end goals are.

    Yer blackie and Mule breeders would have a heart attack watching

    No purl dip there!!!

    I once had a Uk born but fundamentally Kiwi shepherd helping at lambing , his family moved to NZ when he was a lad and he came back for a few months. This was 24 years ago . Anyway he said something to me once that confused me at the time but has become more relevant over the years. We were discussing the management of an intensive lambing operation of a neighbour. He commented

    " that's not really sheep farming at all , that's just getting as many lambs as you can at any cost" !

    His other saying, which I quickly had to dissuade him from taking any action . At the first sign of any lambing difficulty

    " shall I get my knife ?" !

    I am using wairere bred tups . I have been to the station , Derek describes it as medium to steep country , compared to Romney Marsh it's v v steep!

  5. #5
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    Good video.

    Personally that is how EVERY breed should be. Iv started from scratch but in essence the things outlined in this video are what my end goals are.

    Yer blackie and Mule breeders would have a heart attack watching that

    Same here and am getting somewhere now, hardly any assisted births and much less deaths and lambing is a much easier operation. Cattle are on the same program, never calved a cow for over ten years and only lost a coupe of calves in all that time.

    Darwin was right so why breed trouble.

    OT

  6. #6
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Poorbuthappy View Post
    You using Wairere lines then Hilly?
    Currently wondering if I should have gone with the NZ Romney instead of the Highlander
    No but im keen to try some.

  7. #7
    Global Ovine
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Don't think that Wairere sheep are unique. This is another member flock of the Wairarapa Romney Improvement Group which were the second cab off the rank after the NZ Romney Development Group. Both nucleus flocks shared proven rams from time to time. However Derek has done a tremendous job establishing his Wairere brand through exstensive marketing like no other improved Romney flock.

    What you have in the NZ modern performance Romneys, eg. Wairere, is widespread throughout NZ over many breeds. This is a mix of high performance (conversion of pasture to product) at least cost (functionality). That's the reason why so much NZ sheep genetics is now moving into all parts of the world, even back to the UK after 60 years such as Suffolks.

    All this is the result of ram buyer demand for commercial flock improvement genetics, rather than pedigree breeders chasing fashionable extremes which are counter to profitability. That situation may occur in the UK within the next decade as EU coffers become skinned out and farmers focus on what pays the bills.

  8. #8
    Tim W
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    All this is the result of ram buyer demand for commercial flock improvement genetics, rather than pedigree breeders chasing fashionable extremes which are counter to profitability. That situation may occur in the UK within the next decade as EU coffers become skinned out and farmers focus on what pays the bills.[/QUOTE]

    This is and has been happening in the UK for quite a while---it is taking a while to catch on due to some entrenched attitudes within the industry (notably but not exclusivly from the breed societies )
    As G.O. states the change will accelerate as EU funds run dry/COP increases and farmers have to stand on their own feet.
    20 years ago when we first started breeding along these lines we were openly laughed at (i can remember being told i was an organic zealot when discussing the idea of breeding for parasite resistance amongst other traits) ---now more farmers are coming to us for these genetics and more importantly more farmers are breeding with these same principles in mind.
    We are rapidly gaining more tools for selection and genetic prediction which makes me think that the UK's transition to stand alone profitable sheep farming will come sooner rather than later

  9. #9
    Frank_the_Wool
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    I too am using more Waiere genetics.
    I have visited there twice in the last three years and one cannot fail to be impressed by the stock.
    I saw the composites ram lambs being prepared for sale and they were some impressive sheep, no applied extra colour here, just good conformation and fast growing sheep.

    I think we have always had the same ideals with Romneys but have not had the scale to improve the breed by adapting to using other breeds!
    Our own genetic pool had become far too small and using "new" Romney blood can only be a good thing.
    My only criticism would be the lack of back end conformation compared with our own type, but the increased lwg should more than compensate.

    They also clip about 5kg of wool, at the present value that is nearly another 10.00 per ewe!

    Anyone who wishes to see the progeny are welcome to visit.

  10. #10
    part_timer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Cant get the vid to work, but sounds very much like what I'm after, I've looked into Lleyns as my saviour for an easy lambing flock, but maybe I've overlooked the Romney.

    All I'm after is a small (less than 100) flock of sheep that can live outdoors all year (North Wales lowlands) and lamb outside unassisted during April then have lambs ready to go by around September (Currently finish by mid July with creep feed off Tex X ewes but they are just too much hassle for what I'm after)

    I'd rather have a system that was easyer to manage and if I had to keep the lambs longer to be ready to go, then I could live with that, especially if they'll do it off milk and grass only...

    So are Romneys the answer? I've given mysef till September to buy some females to run alongside the Tex as a comparison for a year, was going to buy Lleyn ewe lambs to go to the ram in November...but you've really got me thinking.....

  11. #11
    Tomo
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by part_timer View Post
    Cant get the vid to work
    Try the direct link, other than that.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d937t...layer_embedded

  12. #12
    hilly bill
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Why do the Kiwi`s dock there tails so short ?? dont think we would get away with that here, i crutch mine in feb ready for lambing.

  13. #13
    kennyo
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by hilly bill View Post
    Why do the Kiwi`s dock there tails so short ?? dont think we would get away with that here, i crutch mine in feb ready for lambing.
    Cause the Mauri tailing gangs want the tail for soup!!

    They were mostly tailed with hot iron shear type things when I was there. Think they are done short for flystrike which can be bad in sheep that are rarely seen.

    Tailing is a sight to see. We tailed 4000 (I think) lambs in one day. Done at about 6 weeks old. Gathered into prattley yards in the field, drafted out lambs then they got the treatment. Ear notched, scabivax, boys rung, drenched, and finally tails chopped off!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWS6QvWbF6w

    see these guys are using rings tho!

  14. #14
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_the_Wool View Post
    I too am using more Waiere genetics.
    I have visited there twice in the last three years and one cannot fail to be impressed by the stock.
    I saw the composites ram lambs being prepared for sale and they were some impressive sheep, no applied extra colour here, just good conformation and fast growing sheep.

    I think we have always had the same ideals with Romneys but have not had the scale to improve the breed by adapting to using other breeds!
    Our own genetic pool had become far too small and using "new" Romney blood can only be a good thing.
    My only criticism would be the lack of back end conformation compared with our own type, but the increased lwg should more than compensate.

    They also clip about 5kg of wool, at the present value that is nearly another 10.00 per ewe!

    Anyone who wishes to see the progeny are welcome to visit.
    I think it was Global Ovine , in another thread, who observed that it was not necessarily that the gene pool was too small rather that the available genes were not developed in the same way. All the traits that we wish have always been in the Romney breed, they have just not been developed and selected for by the ' Ram breeders' who by and large wanted to produce Champions at shows and sales and the commercial clientele who wanted bargin basement tups each year.

    There have only ever been a handful of UK Romney Breeders who performance recorded their stock but such was the market that they never saw reward for their investment and gave up . Probably the best recorded flock IMHO was dispersed several years ago in a time of sheep low prices and most of it , that didn't stay in the family went to Scotland. That Flock consistently lambed at %170 but importantly under an intensive inwintered competitive GM comparison with winter cereals, which in the end won the day hence the dispersal.

  15. #15
    NeilO
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Poorbuthappy View Post
    You using Wairere lines then Hilly?
    Currently wondering if I should have gone with the NZ Romney instead of the Highlander
    I like what some of the NZ Romney guys are doing re selection for fewer problems and worm resistance but I ruled them out in favour of Highlanders (Rom x NZ Texel with a bit of Finn to stop them being too good, sorry NZDan) for several reasons....
    1. Too woolly - I don't crutch or belly shear and I don't want to start.
    2. A Romney breeder once told me that I shouldn't be aiming for anything more than 130% lambing.
    3. I know several Romney 'enthusiasts' that have gone on to various composites to try and improve them.
    4. The only ones I've seen have been as mad as a box of frogs.
    5. No Myomax gene work that I know of.
    6. They are butt ugly with their damn great top knots, IMO.

    With careful ram selection, Highlanders (so far) look to be ticking all those boxes for me, whilst keeping a lot of the best Romney attributes. I wouldn't be afraid to grow a bit more Rom into the mix though, if I could find the right type.

  16. #16
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by part_timer View Post
    Cant get the vid to work, but sounds very much like what I'm after, I've looked into Lleyns as my saviour for an easy lambing flock, but maybe I've overlooked the Romney.

    All I'm after is a small (less than 100) flock of sheep that can live outdoors all year (North Wales lowlands) and lamb outside unassisted during April then have lambs ready to go by around September (Currently finish by mid July with creep feed off Tex X ewes but they are just too much hassle for what I'm after)

    I'd rather have a system that was easyer to manage and if I had to keep the lambs longer to be ready to go, then I could live with that, especially if they'll do it off milk and grass only...

    So are Romneys the answer? I've given mysef till September to buy some females to run alongside the Tex as a comparison for a year, was going to buy Lleyn ewe lambs to go to the ram in November...but you've really got me thinking.....

    No breed is a single 'saviour' to anyone. But the Romney will be as close as you will get.

    There are as many s**t flocks which will give you nothing but problems within a single breed as there are flocks wich require very little imputs and will be as easy care as you can get. You could also buy a breed which turns out to be poorly suited to your farm which will give you problems too. Running a closed flock and being ruthless with selection and culling is key, i believe. You just have to have the determination and desire to achieve the end goal.

    Would be very interesting to see the poorest land these Romneys can be run on. Would they cope on a bracken hill rearing 150%+ ?

  17. #17
    Hooby Farmer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    I spent nearly a year in Namibia on and off at a friends engineering business that was based on a farm out there. The farm had 20,000 sheep and 7000 cattle spread over 80,000ha, the sheep were all Vanrooy X Dorper. Was asking the farm manager what they were like to look after. he told me there brought in 3 times a year. Once to get tupped i dont how there divided, once to get lambed(brought into 700ha paddock) and once to remove fat lambs and get rid of the old ewes. When they were in each time sick or lame were culled out.

    i dont know anything about sheep just learning with my big flock of 23, so i dont know what to make of that system

  18. #18
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    No breed is a single 'saviour' to anyone. But the Romney will be as close as you will get.

    There are as many s**t flocks which will give you nothing but problems within a single breed as there are flocks wich require very little imputs and will be as easy care as you can get. You could also buy a breed which turns out to be poorly suited to your farm which will give you problems too. Running a closed flock and being ruthless with selection and culling is key, i believe. You just have to have the determination and desire to achieve the end goal.

    Would be very interesting to see the poorest land these Romneys can be run on. Would they cope on a bracken hill rearing 150%+ ?
    Would depend on the stocking rate? But equal to any other breed I would suggest.

  19. #19
    Inbye
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    No breed is a single 'saviour' to anyone. But the Romney will be as close as you will get.

    There are as many s**t flocks which will give you nothing but problems within a single breed as there are flocks wich require very little imputs and will be as easy care as you can get. You could also buy a breed which turns out to be poorly suited to your farm which will give you problems too. Running a closed flock and being ruthless with selection and culling is key, i believe. You just have to have the determination and desire to achieve the end goal.

    Would be very interesting to see the poorest land these Romneys can be run on. Would they cope on a bracken hill rearing 150%+ ?
    What about north or south country cheviots. Might make a nice cross if you crossed them with a lleyn for your better land?

  20. #20
    henery
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Three friends are running Romneys on a reasonable scale, I just can't see how any other sheep "system" can stack up . Yes they are lower lambing percentage, but they can't be any lower cost.
    I'm no shepherd , but due to ongoing TB probs I'm seriously looking at sheep again and Romneys are the only way I would keep the wooly cantankerous creatures.

  21. #21
    Kelpiekid
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    A question for Frank and you other New Zealand Romney owners in the UK. What sort of scanning % would you expect from a flock tupped in late October November on improved upland. Broken down into Ewes and 2 tooth first time lambers would be helpfull.
    John

  22. #22
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by romneymarsh View Post
    Would depend on the stocking rate? But equal to any other breed I would suggest.
    I imagine your right, but i was just wondering if there is anyone running them on that type of land and how they get on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inbye View Post
    What about north or south country cheviots. Might make a nice cross if you crossed them with a lleyn for your better land?
    Yes the cheviot - either a Southie or Lairg type Northie - feature in my plans for the future, at moment im still getting the ewes crossed over to a single 'type' of ewe before i start introducing other breeds/blood.

    Also intending to inject a little texel into them. I crossed a pure texel ewe with a Lleyn as an experiment and have the resulting ram running - he isnt suited as a fat lamb producer, but i can see a real job for him as a ewe lamb breeder going back to a pure lleyn or lleyn-cheviot crosses of some sort so that the fat lambs have more as just 1/2 texel blood in them.

    I feel from experiances these 3 breeds compliment each other well and more importantly - suit my farm.

  23. #23
    sodbuster10-4
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    What would they be like if they were crossed onto a Lairgy cheviot?

  24. #24
    romneymarsh
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Nithsdale farmer View Post
    No breed is a single 'saviour' to anyone. But the Romney will be as close as you will get.

    There are as many s**t flocks which will give you nothing but problems within a single breed as there are flocks wich require very little imputs and will be as easy care as you can get. You could also buy a breed which turns out to be poorly suited to your farm which will give you problems too. Running a closed flock and being ruthless with selection and culling is key, i believe. You just have to have the determination and desire to achieve the end goal.

    Would be very interesting to see the poorest land these Romneys can be run on. Would they cope on a bracken hill rearing 150%+ ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelpiekid View Post
    A question for Frank and you other New Zealand Romney owners in the UK. What sort of scanning % would you expect from a flock tupped in late October November on improved upland. Broken down into Ewes and 2 tooth first time lambers would be helpfull.
    John
    To early for Myself and I suspect Frank to comment. People close to me who have used the Southland Romney Group Breeders (NZ) bloodlines through the late Richard Chantler achieve near 200% scanning but with too many triplets , quads and even quins which cause considerable extra work ( or losses) which sort of defeats the object.

    With my good old uk bred closed flock romneys , the older sheep scan over 150% , first timers 140% . By using Wairere I am hoping for some high bred vigour in the 1st generation and will then revert to keeping only multiple born ewe lambs . This practice has produced a significant rise in lambing % but it has taken a long time.

    I think the message is , decide where you want to get to and select stock accordingly .

  25. #25
    Frank_the_Wool
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelpiekid View Post
    A question for Frank and you other New Zealand Romney owners in the UK. What sort of scanning % would you expect from a flock tupped in late October November on improved upland. Broken down into Ewes and 2 tooth first time lambers would be helpfull.
    John
    115 - 140% for 2 tooths
    125 - 165% for ewes.
    Many variables, Romneys can reabsorb quite well if put under a lot of stress due to lack of feed in early/mid pregnancy!

    There are already Romneys on Snowdon, some running pure and some crossed with Welsh. Very successful I believe.

  26. #26
    Kelpiekid
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Thankyou Frank we have got some New Zealand Romneys ourselves. Also have some welsh X romney from Snowdonia. I find the Romney ewe is a fantastic mother but am a little concerned by the lower scanning %. But that said being better mothers they will keep more of their lambs alive. By the way I think we have met a couple of years ago, you were trialing a wool press at our place.
    John

  27. #27
    Nithsdale farmer
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by sodbuster10-4 View Post
    What would they be like if they were crossed onto a Lairgy cheviot?
    http://farmingforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=36245

    Wonder what a cheviot x romney looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by romneymarsh View Post
    I think the message is , decide where you want to get to and select stock accordingly .
    Good advice for anyone starting out

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_the_Wool View Post
    115 - 140% for 2 tooths
    125 - 165% for ewes.
    Many variables, Romneys can reabsorb quite well if put under a lot of stress due to lack of feed in early/mid pregnancy!

    There are already Romneys on Snowdon, some running pure and some crossed with Welsh. Very successful I believe.

    Decent lambing % - id maybe like a little higher in ewes, say nearer 175-180% (wouldnt want to go any higher as this though). Interesting to hear they are on Snowdon - surprised that hasnt made it into one of the farming papers

  28. #28
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by sodbuster10-4 View Post
    What would they be like if they were crossed onto a Lairgy cheviot?
    Why mess with the best sheep in the world

  29. #29
    Old Tip
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_the_Wool View Post
    115 - 140% for 2 tooths
    125 - 165% for ewes.
    Many variables, Romneys can reabsorb quite well if put under a lot of stress due to lack of feed in early/mid pregnancy!

    There are already Romneys on Snowdon, some running pure and some crossed with Welsh. Very successful I believe.

    Yes but they probably use the train

  30. #30
    Global Ovine
    Guest

    Re: Romneys

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilO View Post
    I like what some of the NZ Romney guys are doing re selection for fewer problems and worm resistance but I ruled them out in favour of Highlanders (Rom x NZ Texel with a bit of Finn to stop them being too good, sorry NZDan) for several reasons....
    1. Too woolly - I don't crutch or belly shear and I don't want to start.
    2. A Romney breeder once told me that I shouldn't be aiming for anything more than 130% lambing.
    3. I know several Romney 'enthusiasts' that have gone on to various composites to try and improve them.
    4. The only ones I've seen have been as mad as a box of frogs.
    5. No Myomax gene work that I know of.
    6. They are butt ugly with their damn great top knots, IMO.

    With careful ram selection, Highlanders (so far) look to be ticking all those boxes for me, whilst keeping a lot of the best Romney attributes. I wouldn't be afraid to grow a bit more Rom into the mix though, if I could find the right type.

    My response to the points above;

    1. Romneys are as woolly as you will get. This is part of their function.....higher wool returns. Clear faces and legs tho'.

    2.I bet that Romney breeder went out of business! The mug.

    3. Any breeder who thinks they hold the mortgage on all traits has an ego problem....deluded. Introgression is a marvelous tool. Purists will fall behind the ave rate of national flock improvement if their genetic pool is of insufficient size.

    4. Surely the "mad as frogs" dosen't relate to Romneys.....a lot of crossing, eg. with SC Cheviot was to spark them up.

    5. many NZ Romney flocks have introduced some Texel to capture MyoMAX. I started in 2003. ...google Nithdale Romneys and Suffolks Andrew Trip.

    6. If quality wool cover is desired, top knots come with the teritory.


    Some have asked what a Romney x Cheviot is like....this is the Perendale. NZ's 2nd most numerous strong woolled breed usually found in harder hill country than Romneys.

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